Featured: Friendly specialist tours to ancient, mystical and historical sites in the UK and beyond

Friendly specialist tours to ancient, mystical and historical sites in the UK and beyond

Random Image


Putzu Pili Nuraghe

Megalithomania by John Michell, Only £4.99 + P&P

Megalithomania by John Michell, Only £4.99 + P&P

Who's Online

There are currently, 125 guests and 1 members online.

You are a guest. To join in, please register for free by clicking here

Sponsors

<< Our Photo Pages >> Engine Vein, Alderley Edge Copper Mines - Ancient Mine, Quarry or other Industry in England in Cheshire

Submitted by vicky on Tuesday, 22 June 2010  Page Views: 42330

Multi-periodSite Name: Engine Vein, Alderley Edge Copper Mines
Country: England County: Cheshire Type: Ancient Mine, Quarry or other Industry
Nearest Town: Wilmslow  Nearest Village: Alderley Edge
Map Ref: SJ861776  Landranger Map Number: 118
Latitude: 53.295173N  Longitude: 2.210001W
Condition:
5Perfect
4Almost Perfect
3Reasonable but with some damage
2Ruined but still recognisable as an ancient site
1Pretty much destroyed, possibly visible as crop marks
0No data.
-1Completely destroyed
4 Ambience:
5Superb
4Good
3Ordinary
2Not Good
1Awful
0No data.
3 Access:
5Can be driven to, probably with disabled access
4Short walk on a footpath
3Requiring a bit more of a walk
2A long walk
1In the middle of nowhere, a nightmare to find
0No data.
4 Accuracy:
5co-ordinates taken by GPS or official recorded co-ordinates
4co-ordinates scaled from a detailed map
3co-ordinates scaled from a bad map
2co-ordinates of the nearest village
1co-ordinates of the nearest town
0no data
3

Internal Links:
External Links:

I have visited· I would like to visit

SumDoood would like to visit

TimPrevett has visited here

Engine Vein, Alderley Edge Copper Mines
Engine Vein, Alderley Edge Copper Mines submitted by Vicky : Engine Vein, Prehistoric Copper Mine Workings, Alderley Edge, Cheshire NGR:SJ 861774 The copper mines at Alderley Edge have been mined intermittently during recent centuries from 1693 until 1919, but there is evidence to suggest that Bronze Age man also exploited the ore and there may even have been activity in the area much earlier in the Neolithic period. A number of Grooved Stone Hammers ... (Vote or comment on this photo)
Ancient Mine or Quarry in Cheshire. Due to intense mining activities in recent centuries, it has been very difficult to identify whether or not copper mines were used in prehistoric times.

Apart from a few scant records relating to discoveries in the last couple of centuries, the only way of telling whether these ‘holes in the ground’ date to the Bronze Age is by the discovery of stone hammers and associated charcoal.

In England a few finds have come to light in mines in the Peak District such as at Ecton and in Cornwall, but the best known ancient site is at Alderley Edge in Cheshire. Prehistoric mining was undoubtedly also taking place in Cornwall, if not for the copper, then definitely for the tin, but the mines in this area have been worked so hard in modern times here that no traces have ever been found.

The sandstone escarpment of Alderley Edge lies at 120m above sea level. On a clear day visitors are presented with commanding views across the Cheshire Plain to the mountains of Wales in the west, Liverpool to the north-west, Manchester and beyond to the north, and east across to the Pennines. Evidence from flint scatters indicates that the Edge was settled from early times. Copper, lead, cobalt, silver and iron have been found in the mines, but prehistoric activities were limited only to the copper. These same ore-bearing rocks are also found a few miles to the north-east in Mottram St Andrew. The Edge would have been particularly attractive to Bronze Age miners because it was fortunate in having a prominent exposure of malachite. Walking close to the Engine Vein mine today it is still possible to see the ground flecked with traces of this green ore.

During more recent mining operations between 1855 and 1878 a number of ancient mines were found both on the Edge itself and at nearby Mottram St Andrew. More is known about the excavations on the Edge because around three-quarters of the surface workings here are accessible. In Mottram, however, the mines are largely flooded so little can be deduced.

The first indication that the Alderley mines dated back as far as the Bronze Age came to light during operations at Brindlow in the 19th century. The following extract comes from the pages of local writer, Dr J.D. Sainter in 1878:

‘A short time ago as some miners were at work on the Edge, they came upon a large collection of stone implements, consisting of celts, adzes, hammer heads or axes, mauls, &c. Some were lying upon the sand and gravel, from one to two feet below the surface, along with foreign boulders and pebbles belonging to the drift period; and others had been left in some old diggings of the copper ore, from three to four yards in depth, along with an oak shovel that had been very roughly used. Nearly the whole had been rudely made, and were more or less smashed; and they appeared to have been thrown aside, having become useless.’

He continues: ‘They varied in size, and ran up to ten or twelve pounds in weight; and not one that I have noticed has been perforated for the insertion of a handle, but there was a groove formed around each, near the middle so that by bending a tough stick slightly along the groove, and securing it below with thongs, and then fastening the ends of the stick together these would form a handle.’

These tools used for pounding and crushing the ore, had been made from glacial erratic boulders found in the immediate neighbourhood. Some appeared to be relatively new while others were well-worn indicating prolonged use. Two of the hammers had even been sharpened as if for cutting. Interestingly all were found together side by side suggesting the mine had been suddenly abandoned. A number of large unworked boulders, perhaps being stored for future use, were also located in a nearby hollow.

This site of Brindlow (today known as Brynlow to the west of the Macclesfield road at GR: SJ855773) was visited by Professor Boyd Dawkins, Professor of Geology at Manchester University, in 1874. He discovered a few stray hammers on the ground and upon further investigation found evidence for prehistoric open cast mining to a depth of between eight and eleven feet below the surface. Over a hundred tools were unearthed in the debris sued to back fill the mine, including the hammers and the oak shovel mention by Sainter. The find attracted interest from a variety of antiquarians, some of whom were not convinced of a prehistoric provenance. One in particular, a Mr Plant believed them to be nothing more than ‘stones used for the attachment of tents, or for the rope-weights to hold the thatch on the roofs of the huts of the miners, and not perhaps gone long out of existence’.

Luckily for archaeology not everyone was of this opinion and the discovery inspired a local resident, Mr F.S.Graves, to undertake a systematic search of the whole Edge, revealing a whole host of interesting features. Further hammers were detected in rubbish heaps in Windmill Wood to the north of the Brindlow levels and here at the Engine Vein and its environs to the east (on the opposite side of the Macclesfield Road). Continuing in a north-easterly direction yet more were found in Dickens Wood (SJ 863778) and also in Mottram St Andrew (SJ 874784), but those from the latter were highly inferior in quality.

To return to Sainter's‘oak shovel’. This was lost for many years, but was fortunately rediscovered by local author, Alan Garner, under the stage in Alderley Edge school in 1953. He tried for many years to persuade various academic institutions of its provenance. The Manchester Museum were ‘unavailable to comment’, the British Museum dismissed it as ‘possibly a Tudor winnowing fan’ and the Ashmolean declared it to be ‘a child’s toy spade: Victorian’. Luckily the author did not give up and eventually returned to the Manchester Museum with it many years later. An inspection declared it to be a Bronze Age shovel and this was later confirmed by radiocarbon analysis, giving a date of between 1888 and 1677BC.

Mr Graves and his acquaintance Mr Roeder, also established that the Engine Vein dated back to prehistoric times and undertook further investigations in this area. They discovered that the Bronze Age miners had worked these exposures of malachite from the surface to a depth of approximately 5m by sinking small circular pits into the ore bed and then knocking out the side to make a clear face. This was repeated until the whole of the bed was revealed.

On the eastern side of the Engine Vein, the rock face was blackened and cracked as if it had been subjected to fire setting to make it easier to break. This was further supported by the discovery of large pieces of charcoal and decayed stems of gorse (ie fuel) found in what they believed to be fireplaces on the ground made from lead ore. Similar evidence of blackening was found on the western side of the mine workings where a large number of stone hammers were located in a spoil heap.

A small deposit of crushed ore was also found on the southern side of the mine indicating that it was broken up, separated and heaped close by. Even more interesting is the report of ‘lumps of smelted copper and slag’ which came from a rubbish heap to the west.

Access and Location

As far as prehistory goes, the Engine Vein is the only mine worth visiting where evidence of Bronze Age workings still exist at the surface. Park in the main National Trust car park and take the path to the north between the Information Centre and the Warden’s Cottage. Follow this for 200m or so through the woods and you will come to the western end of the Engine Vein.

References

Cheshire County Sites and Monuments Record

W. O’Brien – Bronze Age Copper Mining (Shire, 1996)

D.M.Longley “Prehistory” in C.R.Elrington (ed) “The Victoria History of the County of Chester, volume 1, Oxford University Press (1987)

C. Roeder “Prehistoric and Subsequent Mining at Alderley Edge, with a sketch of the Archaeological Features of the Neighbourhood”, TLCAS Volume 19 (1901)C. Roeder and F.S. Graves ‘Recent Archaeological Discoveries at Alderley Edge’, TLCAS 1891

J.D. Sainter “Scientific Rambles Round Macclesfield”, Silk Press reprint (1999)

W. Shone “Prehistoric Man in Cheshire” (1911)

G.Warrington ‘The Copper Mines of Alderley Edge and Mottram St Andrew, Cheshire’ JCAS Volume 64 (1981)

Note: National Trust Guided Walk Sunday 4 July 2010, see comment.
You may be viewing yesterday's version of this page. To see the most up to date information please register for a free account.


Engine Vein, Alderley Edge Copper Mines
Engine Vein, Alderley Edge Copper Mines submitted by vicky : A drawing of the Bronze Age oak shovel found in one of the mines at Alderley Edge (from Sainter, 1878). See main site entry - Engine Vein, Alderley Edge Copper Mines, for further details. (1 comment - Vote or comment on this photo)

Engine Vein, Alderley Edge Copper Mines
Engine Vein, Alderley Edge Copper Mines submitted by TimPrevett : Looking east through the Engine Vein, which has been mined for 4,000 years. See main article for details. (Vote or comment on this photo)

Engine Vein, Alderley Edge Copper Mines
Engine Vein, Alderley Edge Copper Mines submitted by Vicky : Grooved Hammer Stones found near the Engine Vein at Alderley Edge in 1874 from Shone’s ‘Prehistoric Man in Cheshire, 1911’. (1 comment - Vote or comment on this photo)

Engine Vein, Alderley Edge Copper Mines
Engine Vein, Alderley Edge Copper Mines submitted by Sinjy : Mines open day (Vote or comment on this photo)

Engine Vein, Alderley Edge Copper Mines
Engine Vein, Alderley Edge Copper Mines submitted by Sinjy

Engine Vein, Alderley Edge Copper Mines
Engine Vein, Alderley Edge Copper Mines submitted by Sinjy

Do not use the above information on other web sites or publications without permission of the contributor.
Click here to see more info for this site

Nearby sites

Click here to view sites on an interactive OS map

Key: Red: member's photo, Blue: 3rd party photo, Yellow: other image, Green: no photo - please go there and take one, Grey: site destroyed

Download sites to:
KML (Google Earth)
GPX (GPS waypoints)
CSV (Garmin/Navman)
CSV (Excel)

To unlock full downloads you need to sign up as a Contributory Member. Otherwise downloads are limited to 50 sites.


Turn off the page maps and other distractions

Nearby sites listing. In the following links * = Image available
 nankm 0° Golden Stone (Alderley Edge)* Standing Stone (Menhir) (SJ861776)
 141m NW 315° Wishing Well (Alderley Edge)* Holy Well or Sacred Spring (SJ860777)
 221m N 355° Wizard's Cave Cave or Rock Shelter (SJ86087782)
 281m N 354° Druidical Circle* Modern Stone Circle etc (SJ86077788)
 315m WNW 288° Armada Beacon* Round Barrow(s) (SJ858777)
 328m NW 322° Holy Well (Alderley Edge)* Holy Well or Sacred Spring (SJ85907786)
 360m WNW 304° Wizard's Well* Holy Well or Sacred Spring (SJ858778)
 486m N 350° Findlow Marker Stone (SJ86027808)
 830m S 178° Great Merestone Marker Stone (SJ86137677)
 1.5km ENE 58° Mottram St Andrew Mines Ancient Mine, Quarry or other Industry (SJ874784)
 3.1km S 189° Birtles Hall Round Barrow(s) (SJ856745)
 4.0km E 100° St Peter (Prestbury)* Ancient Cross (SJ9008676910)
 4.2km SSW 207° Sodger's Hump* Round Barrow(s) (SJ842739)
 4.4km SE 124° Prestbury Road (Macclesfield)* Ancient Cross (SJ89727511)
 4.5km ENE 62° Adlington Hall pre-Norman cross* Ancient Cross (SJ901797)
 4.6km E 81° Bonis Hall Lane* Round Barrow(s) (SJ907783)
 4.7km E 81° Butley Barrow* Round Barrow(s) (SJ9072278334)
 4.9km E 85° Butley Stone Circle (SJ9178)
 5.0km SSW 201° Capesthorne Hall (NE)* Round Barrow(s) (SJ843729)
 5.1km SSW 206° Capesthorne Hall (NW) Round Barrow(s) (SJ838730)
 5.2km SSW 198° Capesthorne Hall (SE)* Round Barrow(s) (SJ845726)
 5.5km SSE 151° New Farm, Henbury* Stone Circle (SJ887728)
 5.6km ESE 123° Macclesfield Cemetery* Round Barrow(s) (SJ908745)
 5.6km WNW 295° Lindow* Ancient Trackway (SJ810800)
 5.7km SSE 167° Bearhurst Farm* Round Barrow(s) (SJ874720)
View more nearby sites and additional images

<< Østerholm Langdysse 2

Whitford Inscribed Stone >>

Please add your thoughts on this site

Stone Circles CD-ROM now £10+p&p

Stone Circles CD-ROM now £10+p&p

Sponsors

Auto-Translation (Google)

Translate from English into:

"Engine Vein, Alderley Edge Copper Mines" | Login/Create an Account | 8 News and Comments
  
Go back to top of page    Comments are owned by the poster. We aren't responsible for their content.
Serpent- dragon goddess findings by Draconis on Tuesday, 01 March 2016
(User Info | Send a Message)
I post a few pictures taken on the Edge as further evidence of my serpent -dragon Goddess findings.
[ Reply to This ]

Guided Walk Sunday 4 July 2010 by coldrum on Tuesday, 22 June 2010
(User Info | Send a Message)
Guided Walk Sunday 4 July 2010

Would you like to learn more about strange bumps, humps and hollows, or is it the mines and legends which you are interested in? Either way, why not come along on one of our guided walks. You will learn lots of interesting information and enjoy the beautiful woodland too!


Meet National Trust Car Park


01625 584412, linda.whiting@nationaltrust.org.uk


4 July 2pm - 4.30pm


http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/main/w-vh/w-visits/w-events/w-events-find_event.htm?propertyID=700
[ Reply to This ]

Re: Alderley Edge by coldrum on Saturday, 08 August 2009
(User Info | Send a Message)
Pastscape site record:

https://www.pastscape.org.uk/hob.aspx?hob_id=1462001
[ Reply to This ]

Re: Alderley Edge DEREK by Anonymous on Tuesday, 28 July 2009
been down it back in early sixte`s wen we were rockers old BSA mcycle`s pot hole was also wot we did as well wonder if SPIKE our guide back then has read this nick name came from the fact he had a world war bayonet
[ Reply to This ]

Re: Alderley Edge by coldrum on Thursday, 19 March 2009
(User Info | Send a Message)
National Trust site:

http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/main/w-vh/w-visits/w-findaplace/w-alderleyedge.htm
[ Reply to This ]

Re: Alderley Edge Mines Open Days by Anonymous on Saturday, 16 July 2005
Recent copper mine photographs: http://www.damn-them.com/images/alderleyedgehell/
[ Reply to This ]

Alderley Edge Mines Open Days by TimPrevett on Tuesday, 05 July 2005
(User Info | Send a Message)
There are open days at the mines here, where you can go down into some of the many miles of mine passageways beneath the area. Full details are HERE on the Derbyshire Caving Club's website who host the open days.

A fascinating visit, well worth it.

Tim
[ Reply to This ]

Alan Garner and Alderley Edge by Anonymous on Thursday, 26 September 2002

For those who are fans of Alan Garner (The Weirdstone of Brisingamen, The Owl Service, The Moon of Gomrath), I have put together a web page, with about twenty photos of Alderley Edge and surrounds, including images of Goldenstone, the Wizard's Well, and Redesmere.

You will find the site at www.daharja.net/alangarner.htm

Enjoy!

[ Reply to This ]

Your Name: Anonymous [ Register Now ]
Subject:


Add your comment or contribution to this page. Spam or offensive posts are deleted immediately, don't even bother

<<< What is five plus one as a number? (Please type the answer to this question in the little box on the left)
You can also embed videos and other things. For Youtube please copy and paste the 'embed code'.
For Google Street View please include Street View in the text.
Create a web link like this: <a href="https://www.megalithic.co.uk">This is a link</a>  

Allowed HTML is:
<p> <b> <i> <a> <img> <em> <br> <strong> <blockquote> <tt> <li> <ol> <ul> <object> <param> <embed> <iframe>

We would like to know more about this location. Please feel free to add a brief description and any relevant information in your own language.
Wir möchten mehr über diese Stätte erfahren. Bitte zögern Sie nicht, eine kurze Beschreibung und relevante Informationen in Deutsch hinzuzufügen.
Nous aimerions en savoir encore un peu sur les lieux. S'il vous plaît n'hesitez pas à ajouter une courte description et tous les renseignements pertinents dans votre propre langue.
Quisieramos informarnos un poco más de las lugares. No dude en añadir una breve descripción y otros datos relevantes en su propio idioma.