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<< News >> Ancient sky map or fake? German experts row over star disc

Submitted by vicky on Tuesday, 01 March 2005  Page Views: 13670

DiscoveriesCountry: Germany Land: Saxony-Anhalt
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Nebra skydisk
Nebra skydisk submitted by Andy B : As of March 2002 The State Museum for Prehistory (Landesmuseum für Vorgeschichte) in Halle, Germany, has been in possession of a bronze disc, which may prove to be one of the most significant finds in early European history. It has a diameter of 32 cm and a weight of 2 kg. The disc has an official name:"Himmelsscheibe von Nebra" and was found here. (Vote or comment on this photo)
One of Germany's most acclaimed archaeological finds - a 3,600-year-old disc depicting the stars and the planets - is at the centre of a dispute following claims that it is a modern forgery reports Luke Harding of the Guardian in Berlin.

According to Germany's museum establishment, the Sky Disc of Nebra is the oldest depiction of the heavens discovered and offers an insight into the Bronze Age mind.

But the authenticity of the disc has been challenged by one of the country's leading archaeologists, Peter Schauer of Regensburg University. He told a court in Halle that the artefact was nothing more than an amateurish forgery.

Prof Schauer said that the ancient-looking green patina on the artefact was not old at all, and had probably been artificially created in a workshop using acid, urine and a blowtorch.

The indentations on the disc's side, meanwhile, were also not made by a Bronze Age tool but were done by machine, he said.

"My colleagues don't want to believe it. But there is little doubt that the disc is a fake," he told the Guardian yesterday. "It looks very nice. It has the sky and the stars. You can even see the Pleiades. But I'm afraid it's a piece of fantasy."

The disc was allegedly found in 1999 by two amateur metal detectors. They claimed they discovered it in a muddy field close to a prehistoric hill fort near the east German town of Nebra, with two ancient swords and jewellery. The amateur archaeologists then attempted to sell the disc to various German museums for 1m Deutschmarks. Police in the Swiss city of Basel eventually arrested the pair and they were convicted of handling stolen goods. They are appealing against the sentence, arguing that if the disk is a fake they should not have been convicted in the first place.


Last week a judge in Halle called Prof Schauer as an expert witness after he wrote a letter to the Frankfurter Allgemeine newspaper last November saying that the disc was a fake.

Other experts, though, have poured scorn on the professor's testimony. "An examination of the patina confirms its ancient origins ... I have no doubt that it does indeed come from the Bronze Age," another professor, Josef Riederer, told the court. Tests revealed that the disc had come from the Nebra site, yet another expert, Gregor Borg, claimed.

The case is embarrassing Germany's curatorial establishment, which had hailed the disc as the most sensational archaeological discovery of the last century. The disc, with its gold appliqués, was the oldest concrete representation of the cosmos to date and a key find not only for archaeology but also for astronomy and the history of religion, experts claimed. It probably belonged to an early Bronze Age prince, they added, who would have exchanged goods across Europe. Thousands of Germans have flocked to an exhibition in Halle to see the disc.

Yesterday, however, Prof Schauer said the disc could have been manufactured by shamans from Siberia, and was probably no more than "two or three hundred years old". Asked whether he might be wrong, he replied: "I spent 19 years examining finds from across the ancient and Roman world. I know what I'm talking about."

The judge is likely to rule on the case next week.

Source: The Guardian 01/03/2005

Note: Go back to our main page about the Nebra skydisk.

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"Ancient sky map or fake? German experts row over star disc" | Login/Create an Account | 6 News and Comments
  
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Re: Ancient sky map or fake? German experts row over star disc by Anonymous on Friday, 17 August 2007
The finders of this disc said in court that it was a forgery. Did they say who forged it? There is the mark of Freemasonry about it which suggests that it has been made quite recently, or else that Masonry is very old.
[ Reply to This ]

Re: Ancient sky map or fake? German experts row over star disc by Anonymous on Tuesday, 08 March 2005
Wouldn't it be the pits if after this generation is long gone that some future astroarchacologist proves that the sky map was real and not a fake.
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Re: Ancient sky map or fake? German experts row over star disc by Anonymous on Wednesday, 02 March 2005
I have had a nagging doubt ever since it was found. The context of it's finding seemed suspicious and archaeoastronomy IS becoming flavour of the month, especially now that flying saucers are becoming less important to the unquestioning community.(Notice how Unidentified Flying Objects are usually seen by people who see UFOs !)

It would be a spectacular astronomical artifact if genuine but unfortunately our firm knowledge of 'Bronze Age' archaeoastronomy is currently limited to Babylon and Egypt. European astronomical ancient history is tenuous at best and is apparently limited to monument alignments. Even the so-called Nowlth moon map is stretching the imagination a lot.
[ Reply to This ]
    Re: Ancient sky map or fake? German experts row over star disc by Anonymous on Tuesday, 06 December 2005

    Why doesn't someone check out the sky map with a computer program to find out what date the stars and the moon depict?

    Is it possible that the disk represents the fragmentation of a comet collision with the earth? The fragments in the dark portion of the disk may indicate incoming fragments. The seemingly flaming tail could be from a large fragment entering the atmosphere. Whilst the other two are circling further out

    The GRACE images from NASA's JPL and Potsdam University may shed light on possible impact sites and the increased volume the impact may have been subjected to.

    A Navajo verbal tradition has Pleiades moving from the knee of Orion to the shoulder. Navajo's used the star cluster as an eye chart to test the quality of one's sight. If one were to measure the angle perhaps 23 degrees may be obtained.

    The added mass and the tilt and the craters on the moon indicate impacts. The ancient calendar systems were based on a 360 day year and a 30 day month. Could the added mass fling the earth further from the sun adding the five plus days per year? Could the moon's 28 day cycle be a result of impacts placing in and a further or closer orbit around the earth, freeze its core to into a solid bar magnet such that the face of the moon never changes from the earth view perspective?

    Could the ancient Greek story of the sisters be true where two objects pass toward the earth? One interacting with mars the other becoming Venus? Could the object, said to depict the sun, on the Nebra Disk be Venus passing by?

    Could the story of Peleg (meaning earthquake in Hebrew) really mean the earthquake that divided the earth? Could his little brother's name indicate that the weight of a man increased so much that they called him Sortie? The time frame of this event is ironically similar to the date given to the Nebra Disk.

    Sky maps are accurate. Each hour of every night the sky changes, stars move constellations and planets and moons. Every hour a new sky map could be produced accurately depicting a specific time. If the ancient one that fabricated the Nebra Disk was a star gazer perhaps he accurately placed Pleiades near the moon as it was prior to impact 23 degrees of tilt out of place prior to the earth being set in a wobble and being placed slightly further out in space?

    The objects passing through space would have been objects of amusement when they came into sight months prior to impact. Were the movements of these two bodies those of comets or asteroids?

    Study of the various types of craters on Mars, the Moon and Venus and other terrestrial object do show very different types of impacts. From those that appear as a soft water balloon impacts to those that penetrate to the magma core and crack the surface and regurgitating the molten mass beneath the surface. Could the earth have undergone the same? Could that be the reason for the lack of sedimentary layers on the deep ocean floors, the lofty mountains of the world and the weird terrain found here and there? Could the tsunami waves have mixed sea life with terrestrial life into sandy soft sediment deposits between the heat folded and brittle brakes of the earth's sedimentary crust? Could the black marble be caused by white marble being subject to sudden impact and heat? As was the carbon was forced from the limestone at the glancing impact of the Odessa Crater in Texas?

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Re: Ancient sky map or fake? German experts row over star disc by Andy B on Tuesday, 01 March 2005
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From my memory of the TV programme, I was quite convinced by the other experts who originally stated its ancient origin. Sounds like a good subject for our next poll - get some votes in on the current one first though!
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Re: Ancient sky map or fake? German experts row over star disc by Thorgrim on Tuesday, 01 March 2005
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Doesn't really surprise me. Never found the "Harry Potter" conical wizard hats convincing either. Nazi's fabricated all sorts of nonsense when trying to prove that their Aryan master race was descended from Atlantis etc. Wonder if there could be a connection.
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