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Re: Carn Galver by Bladup on Friday, 06 March 2020
(User Info | Send a Message) | | What proof do you have that i'm incorrect and how do you know the stone was from elsewhere? i believe you don't have any real evidence at all and can't know where the stone is from originally (it's all at the same site anyway)!!! These Propped stones exist because the softer stone/sand has eroded away (sometimes "maybe" with man's help moving the softer rock/sand) over 1000's if not 1000000's of years by the elements, leaving only (often small) harder stones supporting massive stones, because it often looks strange people think that other people must have done it, they normally haven't as it's a totally natural process, i suggest you study geology a bit more, hopefully you'll then see the light, you've decided your right and seem to want to run with it, exactly like your doing with alignments - There's that many ancient site's down here that you'll always find alignments, it's another thing proving they were meant or known about by the builders of these (often from totally different times) sites. |
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| Re: Carn Galver by Anonymous on Saturday, 18 July 2020 | To think that nature caused this is ridiculous. The stone is propped with a rock that has a milky quartz stripe. No other rocks or boulders, grounded or otherwise, around this boulder feature this quartz pattern but the area of the carn where this rock was OBVIOUSLY taken from, which is about 200 meters to the SE, is covered with it. Carn Galva is the site that i have spent most time at & I know it quite intricately. Everyone knows this is an OBVIOUS & ARCHETYPAL NEOLITHIC PROPPED STONE AT A NEOLITHIC TOR ENCLOSURE -even Archeologists! - see the excellent book "Archaeology & Landscape at the Land's End, Cornwall" by Peter Herring, Nicholas Johnson, Andy M. Jones, Jacqueline A. Nowakowski, Adam Sharp & Andrew Young (all respected Archaeologists) where there is an in depth case study of Carn Galva featuring this boulder which is recorded as the most obvious of three Neolithic propped stones.
My advice would be to research & accept this because you're making a bigger & bigger fool of yourself on this subject. |
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Re: Carn Galver by Andy B on Saturday, 18 July 2020
(User Info | Send a Message) | | No need to be rude. Yes the propped stone hypothesis has a lot of support but nothing in this area is 100% proven. Bladup is entitled to be sceptical and people proposing this have to prove their case. Future rude comments will be deleted. |
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| Re: Carn Galver by Anonymous on Saturday, 18 July 2020 | Apologies for calling Bladup foolish & I don't intend any rudeness, but do you not agree that his message is condescending & even insulting to my work (blog) & anyone would get annoyed with this especially when his points about my alignments work (blog) are so wide of the mark that it's obvious he hasn't even read it before insulting it's content.
Yes there is grey area concerning propped stones but isn't that true of any ancient monument? This propped stone is as scientifically recorded & accepted as any one could be. Why doubt the scientific evidence on this particular site?
Bladup is entitled to be sceptical,yes, but there is no credible science for his argument The Geological process he is describing is irrelevant at this site & others have responded to his theory (see photo comments above) as "risible" (apparently without reprimand) Is this response not expected If he is going to be so forward with his stubbornness on this matter.
I was rather rude in my response for which I am sorry but also isn't this an understandable reaction to a very arrogant message by him? Why is my response reprimanded when his initial arrogance is not? Is it because he is a much greater contributor to your site than I? - sorry but it does seem a little one sided. If this item is not a Neolithic propped stone, then there are none in the world! |
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Re: Carn Galver by Bladup on Saturday, 18 July 2020
(User Info | Send a Message) | | Thanks Andy, It seems this person doesn't like any opinion that differs from their own, i have been to loads of these so called propped stones sites all over the country and honestly believe them all (the ones i've seen) to be mainly natural (as i've said before some may have had stones removed, leaving only the propped stones, so not totally natural but this can't be proved) and i think it gets his goat that he can't and never will be able to prove me wrong (because they're natural), It's not just me that sees them as natural, Geologists also do!!! Quartz is all over Carn Galver, So if you think you can line bits of quartz up, then that says everything to me (and good luck with that)!!! and for the record i have and have read Archaeology & Landscape at the Land's End, Cornwall by Peter Herring, Nicholas Johnson, Andy M. Jones, Jacqueline A. Nowakowski, Adam Sharp & Andrew Young and don't believe the book is correct in this matter either, all those silly alignments this man does are nonsense as well, because we all know that if you take lots of points some will inevitably line up! |
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Re: Carn Galver by Bladup on Saturday, 18 July 2020
(User Info | Send a Message) | And for the record i'm not even convinced that Carn Galver is a Neolithic Tor Enclosure either as i believe the evidence for calling it that is thin to say the least (The tor isn't even enclosed).
We all believe it's something but it's nothing like the other Neolithic tor enclosures down here like Trencrom, Carn Brea or Helman Tor, I think Carn Galver was seen as something different to the local neolithic population, again it's just my opinion/feeling though |
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| Re: Carn Galver by Anonymous on Sunday, 19 July 2020 | How can you not reprimand this guy for his arrogant (not to mention deeply hypocritical) attacks? - Is it really me that does not accept alternative opinions?
This boulder is propped with a granite stone with a quartz stripe through it, if geology really is his thing then perhaps he could explain how (if this phenomena is really caused by erosion) the quartz stripe (on the propping stone) is at exactly at the same level of erosion as the surrounding granite when it is a completely different texture?
Bladup - If you are not going to examine my work please do not insult it. What you say about the alignments I study would be true if they were in random directions but they are not, they are all significant solar/lunar orientations (solstices, & full moon limits - limited to 40, 50 & 60 degrees) also you seem to think my work is limited to the Penwith area which is rich in ancient features - It is not, all of them are nationwide & some are international, taking in isolated & very significant sites in France, Ireland, Channel Islands etc. Also They are iconic & relevant sites such as Avebury Henge, Glastonbury Tor, Stonehenge etc. not just random small features.
You are of course entitled to dismiss science at your will but personally I would have to have a more realistic explanation to do so - good luck with that!
The facilitators of this website should really examine these message exchanges (if it's not to tiresome!) to see weather anything I've written is as offensive, insulting or personally derisive as the message above. Should this guy be allowed to attack & arrogantly insult users of your site while you turn a blind eye just because he supplies you with lots of pictures? - His theory doesn't make sense to me so please allow me to differ - it is my right to do so.
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Re: Carn Galver by Bladup on Sunday, 19 July 2020
(User Info | Send a Message) | | I'm entitled to my opinion as are you, but i'm afraid it's you that appears to be presenting theory as fact, You only really have theories but because you're convinced by them you put them across as facts, You have no real evidence for any of what you say as it's very subjective, this is all i'm pointing out, i can't be against you as i don't know you, But on this subject i for one like to stay within the world of reality, I wouldn't have commented in the first place if you didn't put your theories across as facts and had stated them to be theoretical, Even i find the alignments to Carfury Standing Stone very interesting, the rest is just all a bit silly, You even use the standing stone that Hamish put up on Carn Eanes in an alignment even though it was put up in 1985 and hasn't been proved to be 100% ancient at all, I'm sorry but i think it's important that people also see your theories as subjective and not fact, but i am sorry if that upsets you as that isn't my intention at all. |
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| Re: Carn Galver by Anonymous on Sunday, 19 July 2020 | Nowhere have I specifically stated that my theories should be taken as fact. I just prefer my explanation as your theory, to my mind, has serious scientific flaws; I ask again - How can the quartz in this rock erode at exactly the same rate as the surrounding granite over all those centuries when the "cheese-cut" looking carns/tors & cliffs all over Penwith are evidence that they erode at a different rate? If any reading Geologist can explain I will take it on board.
Also Carn Galver's (underground evidence of) enclosure wall can't really be compared to Trencrom (some left above ground) because, although there is agriculture & some mining around Trencrom, it is much less intensive and it is not in the immediate area of the enclosure like Galva so some of the wall remains un-robbed. |
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Re: Carn Galver by Bladup on Sunday, 19 July 2020
(User Info | Send a Message) | | I've said all i want to say on the matter, I believe most if not all of these propped stones are caused by natural erosion and are not man made at all, I believe i can prove this at other places like trencrom where the softer rock hasn't been exposed to the elements like the stones have at Carn Galver, and is still there (the softer rock), if these softer rocks had been exposed to the wind and rain for millennia like on Carn Galver you'd end up with these so called Propped stones, eg a massive rock left on the small hard rock(s) that were left, See the earlier discussion here - https://www.megalithic.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=a312&file=index&do=showpic&pid=174700 |
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| Re: Carn Galver by Anonymous on Sunday, 19 July 2020 | (Sigh!) Of course there is quartz all over the carn -it's a granite carn! but not the milky white quartz that features on the propping stone, this is only found marbling the surface of the carn rock in a certain area (specifically opposite the end of the larger path leading up to the carn) - which IS enclosed, by the way, with walling that is characteristic of the Neolithic period. little remains on the surface but it has been officially identified & recorded by excavation - this is science of course, which you are fully entitled to blindly dismiss at your will. The whole surrounding landscape is historically a mining and farming intensive area where any handy building rock on the surface would have been used on the mine workings or for agricultural walling.
Perhaps readers who visit the site can verify this in a message. there is no naturally lying milky quartz anywhere near this boulder - WHAT WOULD BE MY MOTIVATION FOR FABRICATING THIS INFORMATION? |
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Re: Carn Galver by Bladup on Sunday, 19 July 2020
(User Info | Send a Message) | | I do find it funny that you think you know where a piece of stone with a line of quartz comes from on a massive double outcrop that is Carn Galver, As there is quartz in the granite all over the area, The stone under your propped stone has in my opinion always been there naturally and wasn't put there by anybody, you thinking you know where the little stone came from doesn't prove your theory as you can't prove it at all, In reality you seem to have found an area with similar looking stone and presumed it must have came from that area, I believe it didn't at all, and for the record just because it ended up in a book doesn't make it fact either. |
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| Re: Carn Galver by Anonymous on Sunday, 19 July 2020 | I do not "know" where this little stone came from it is just that this specific milky quartz is only to be found (on bedded rock) in one area of the carn (opposite the end of the larger path) so I suppose you could say it's a strong presumption.
Please stop insisting that I deal in definates for your own argumentative purposes, nothing is etched in stone (!). I am satisfied with how this exchange will be percieved by others as to where the arrogance is coming from. |
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Re: Carn Galver by Bladup on Sunday, 19 July 2020
(User Info | Send a Message) | | yayyyyyyy i like "strong presumption" that's much better, you have a strong presumption and i have a strong presumption, and when it comes to arrogance you're the one that lowered yourself to calling me foolish!!! You've certainly got some cheek! |
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| Re: Carn Galver by Anonymous on Sunday, 19 July 2020 | | Thanks! |
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| Re: Carn Galver by Anonymous on Sunday, 19 July 2020 | There are still some points unanswered;
If you can explain to me how the granite in the rock has eroded at the same rate as the quartz in this rock over the centuries when the evidence for miles around suggests to the contrary, or if you have any other theories that could override this then I would not be quite so quick to dismiss your theory.
You scoff at my alignments work assuming the alignments are in random directions, concern insignificant sites in monument rich areas - these assumptions are all completely incorrect. I wouldn't expect an apology (not from you anyway) but an acknowledgement perhaps? as you were very derisive & belittling (not to mention ill-informed).
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Re: Carn Galver by Bladup on Sunday, 19 July 2020
(User Info | Send a Message) | | Your still been abusive even now!!! You can't see the wood for the trees, Like i said geologists would understand the propped stones in a very differnet way to the way you do, I've said all i want to as i don't like your attitude at all, You believe you're right and like i said before you've decided to run with it, I wish you the best of Luck with that. |
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| Re: Carn Galver by Anonymous on Sunday, 19 July 2020 | Whatever his diplomatic skills, Kenny is onto something with his research and this will lead somewhere that is good, and the evidence is accumulating gradually. He has ways of finding things that others don't yet see. Down here this matter of propped and placed stones is a frontier area, and archaeologists and antiquarians are watching his work with interest.
Perceptions and interpretations in archaeology are always subject to review and change - this is the process. I have a lot to say about cliff castles as key neolithic sites, for example. It's good to scrutinise and question emergent ideas and data closely, and Bladup is right to do so, with politeness and quality discussion on both sides, but first we must let evidence emerge and let a more coherent picture form.
Best wishes, Palden |
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Re: Carn Galver by Bladup on Sunday, 19 July 2020
(User Info | Send a Message) | Very well put Palden and i appreciate your wisdom, I honestly feel that some people think propped stones are thought to be man made because they can look so unnatural, Therefore some people think that they can't be natural but i really believe natural progresses can explain pretty much all of them, So to me it's a bit of a dead end.
I also have a strong interest in these wonderful Cornish Cliff Castles and also feel a lot of their origins lie in the Neolithic stone axe trade (later turning into copper, tin and the iron trade), Kenidjack cliff castle springs to mind, I was just at the fabulous Chynhalls Point near Coverack and they certainly weren't defending anything from the Seaward side as it's very flat and undefended, I often feel back in the distant past there were "sea people" and "land people" and the defences from the landward side of cliff castles suggests they didn't get on that much (that's if they were defending anything at all, The banks and ditches could possibly even be mainly symbolic). |
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| Re: Carn Galver by Anonymous on Sunday, 19 July 2020 | Well done peacemaker Palden. Things got out of hand. i had a lovely sunny day out at Carn Les Boel today & that magical landscape brings forth the truth that life's to short so let's be nice!
Boulder argument aside, I couldn't just leave stuff said about my blog that was misleading & would put off anyone that may be curious enough to stop them clicking the link after Megalithic has kindly let me leave links on their articles (with encouragement).
No hard feelings Bladup - nice pictures.
Best wishes as ever Palden & wishing you best health to see you in person again soon. |
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Re: Carn Galver by Bladup on Sunday, 19 July 2020
(User Info | Send a Message) | | You can't beat a bit of Carn Les Boel soothing (I love how symmetrical the landscape looks from the tumulus), Also no hard feelings from me and thanks for the compliment, I'll also add that i do love and appeciate your dedication and love for Ancient culture, Keep up the good work! |
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| Re: Carn Galver by Anonymous on Monday, 20 July 2020 | | Ha - all friends again, thats much better! - thanks for the kind words & same to you, - K. |
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Re: Carn Galver by Andy B on Tuesday, 21 July 2020
(User Info | Send a Message) | | What a thread! So good to see this resolved amicably. I like to think we are at the forefront of promoting propped stone research so please keep them coming (and scepticism is fine too!) |
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