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Applying a modern Spreadsheet to prove the Megalithic Yard

Submitted by astro3 on Monday, 23 February 2009  Page Views: 14389

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Best Fit Megalithic Unit Graph
Best Fit Megalithic Unit Graph submitted by astro3 : Best Fit Megalithic Unit for 60 Circle Diameters. Graphic for article Applying a modern Spreadsheet to prove the Megalithic Yard (Vote or comment on this photo)
Nick Kollerstrom writes: Proof of the Megalithic Yard. Robin Heath’s book on Alexander Thom, Cracking the Stone Age Code (2007) described the statistical endeavour to ascertain how valid was the Thom's Megalithic Yard. Was it really present in the data?

The statistician Prof David Kendall claimed to show that a quantum unit of diameter 5.44 feet (two Megalithic Yards) ‘rose up above the sea of random noise…’ (p122). This all seemed rather complicated. These days, a lot of people are sceptical.

Let’s keep things simple, and only include megalithic stone circles, not ellipses or other shapes, and only those circles where we reliably believe that the stones have not been moved and are reliable indicators of the Megalithic designs. This means that we have only one single measure for each construction, viz the radius, or rather diameter. Exactly this was done by the two authors John Barnett and Gordon Moir, in their article, ‘Stone Circles and Megalithic Mathematics’ published in Proceedings of the Prehistoric Society (1984), 50, pp. 197-216. This gave them a list, of sixty such circles, English and Scottish. The diameters were measured in feet, and these averaged 79 feet. Thom had surmised that their radii were measured in ‘Megalithic yards,’ which he always claimed was 2.72 feet in length.

These authors concluded that their test on these sixty circles, a sub-group of all of Thom’s data, did ‘not generally provide sufficient data of adequate quality to sustain his hypothesis.’ I wish to argue that this merely shows they did not look carefully enough at the data. Or, maybe it shows that these things are now a lot simpler in the age of the computer spreadsheet.

We here plot a quantum-unit of circle diameter, which we allow to vary, and see if it gives any best-fit value for this ‘Megalithic circle’ data-set. For each of these 60 values, the integer-multiple of the quantum unit is taken, that comes nearest to it, either just less or just more. Then the deviation of each Megalithic diameter from this nearest integer value is found, and these are summed, all sixty of them. Then, varying the value of the quantum-unit, the sum of all residues will be different each time, and can be plotted against it.

The result of this is shown in the graph. It is clear that a minimum occurs where Alexander Thom said it should be.

The enclosed graph shows a minimum in residuals around one single value and no other, viz. 2.72 feet the MY value, or rather double that for the radii here investigated. If there had been an intention on the part of the megalithic builders to employ a unit of measure for these radii, then there would have to be one value at which these deviations would descend to a minimum. Clearly, that is the case. Q.E.D.

This result is unequivocal, and it rules out the agnostic conclusion drawn by Barnatt and Moir back in ‘84. It demonstrates that, millennia ago, a single unit of measure was indeed used for these sixty radii, or some substantial proportion of them. It confirms that this primal, original measure was more or less just what Alexander Thom said it was, viz. 2.72 feet. A higher magnification of this graph indicated that the best-fit value (i.e. giving a minimal sum of residual values) was around 2.718 feet, but one may doubt whether such four-figure accuracy is warranted on this data-set.

I would welcome discussion as to whether this list of circle-diameters compiled back in 1984 can be improved in any way.

Nick Kollerstrom PhD


Note: New research from Nick Kollerstrom, comments welcome

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"Applying a modern Spreadsheet to prove the Megalithic Yard" | Login/Create an Account | 18 News and Comments
  
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Re: Applying a modern Spreadsheet to prove the Megalithic Yard by astro3 on Tuesday, 23 December 2025
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See my new article on academia.edu which shows this graph a bit more clearly, with its minimum at Thom's MY
www.academia.edu/145254331/The_Foot_and_Yard_in_Ancient_Time
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Re: Applying a modern Spreadsheet to prove the Megalithic Yard by astro3 on Tuesday, 30 September 2025
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I here published an analysis of stone circle widths in 2012, showing evidence that they had had their radii measured in integer values of Megalithic Yards. Andrew Yates has now replicated my analysis of those Thom stone circle diameters, using the same method as me, but slightly more computerised.
Mine - www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=2146413596
His - www.megalithic.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=Forum&file=viewtopic&topic=9078&forum=4 => 2.720 feet optimal
and -
drive.google.com/file/d/1M8LBBBAE3GUtaWImRb4peNwBeoUN5_bN/view
He has found the exact same result as me - a clear minimum in 'residuals' of the diameters at 2.72 feet.
The basic principle we have both used, is: if integer values of a yardstick had been used in measuring out circle radii, then taking the nearest whole-number value of that yardstick to the observed diameter, and subtracting them, will give a difference or residual that will be least, it will be on average smaller, than using any other length-measurement. The total sum of those residuals is plotted as a function of the unit of length.
He does not mention my work, but never mind. He used the same method and reached the same conclusion, without being aware of my study on your website!
He just used a slightly larger database, of - he said - 200 diameters.
Thom's MY has come under much criticism and scorn. For example, the book by the late John Neal Ancient Metrology dismissed it entirely. It has now been vindicated and validated by the method I used in 2012, now repeated by Andrew in 2022.
We could do with more discussion of which circle-diameters are to be included. All analyses published seem to be based upon measurments made by the Thoms, Andrew's paper hardly explained how he obtained his 200 diameters, merely alluding to ‘two complementary papers published in 1955 and 1962 by Professor Alexander Thom and saying that his method was ‘applied to all 200 sites.’
However, in the forum he explained, “The data that I used was extracted from Thom's 1955 paper which contained 29 sites from England (Table 2), 25 sites from Scotland (Table 3) and 35 "Other" sites (Table 14). I also extracted data from his 1962 paper which contained 43 new sites from England and Wales (Table 1) and 51 new sites from Scotland (Table 2). Thus my database represented 183 sites in total from all over the UK.”
OK, so he used 183 sites. He did not use the obvious data-source viz the 1980 publication by the two Thoms edited by Burl, 'Megalithic Rings, Plans and Data for 229 Monuments in Britain.' I have used the judicious selection of those Thom sites published in: Barnatt & Moire, 'Stone circles & Meg. Maths', Proc Prehistoric. Soc., 50, 1984, 197-216. They gave in all 267 diameter measurements, where 'date-sets not deriving from well-preserved stone circles are removed.' (Each monument may have several diameter measurements.)
I will post up an improved graph if i can figure out how to do that. I tested the 2.5 MY interval (6.8 feet) which Thom called a 'rod', but I found no sign of any minimum there, likewise the 1.17 which is being alluded to as the HSMF 'Harris-Stockton Megalithic Foot' and it also showed no minimum. Likewise, if one inspects the remarkable graph presented by Andrew Yates, that shows no minima at these points: it clearly has one and only one minimum, at 2.72 feet! A shame Thom didn't get to see this graph ...
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Re: Applying a modern Spreadsheet to prove the Megalithic Yard by Anonymous on Monday, 19 January 2015
Ok - there is one minimum, and therefore one ''unit''. But an I right in interpreting this result as indicating that, when the circles were laid out using this modulus, the average error in the diameter was 55/60 ft = 11 inches ? This suggests a certain degree of carelessness in using the ''megalithic yard'' measuring rod.



If you were to calculate the actual error in each case, and express it as a percentage of the corresponding diameter, you could then find the average percentage error, and apply the result to the 2.72 figure. This would allow you to put an error bar on that figure - i.e 2.72 +/- X%. This might then have a bearing on the hypothesis that the ''megalithic yard'' is in fact an average man's pace, since you could compare the percentage variation (X) of the ''megalithic yard'' with the variation of paces in a typical population .
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    Re: Applying a modern Spreadsheet to prove the Megalithic Yard by Anonymous on Tuesday, 20 January 2015
    I would like to see a wider range of numbers on the horizontal axis so that we could see if this is just a random effect, and to test against the possibility of selection of data.


    One would expect the cumulative error (plotted on the vertical axis) to have a peak at 2.72/2. Presumably, if the diameters of the circles were completely random, the scatter on the graph would also be random, so the significance of the graph depends on the ratio of the maximum to the minimum, and the distribution or scatter of values between them; we are not shown this.


    A point which always troubles me about this kind of data is the question "how do you measure the diameters of stone circles, and what errors are there in the data?". Are they in fact perfectly circular, or rather, with what degree of precision do they actually fit a circle ? What is the meaning of quoting the size of a megalithic yard to a precision of 0.7% (i.e. 2 parts in 272) when the original data has unspecified (and probably much lower) precision ?
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      Re: Applying a modern Spreadsheet to prove the Megalithic Yard by Anonymous on Tuesday, 20 January 2015
      Actually, its 0.35% - 1 part in 272
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Re: Applying a modern Spreadsheet to prove the Megalithic Yard by Anonymous on Friday, 14 February 2014
The MY can be derived geometrically from the remen and/or royal cubit unequivocably. Moreover, it is extremely close to the natural log base of 2.718281828.....
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Re: Applying a modern Spreadsheet to prove the Megalithic Yard by Anonymous on Saturday, 04 January 2014
The Megalithic Yard is very compelling.
When researchers find distances of 10, 20, 50, 100 MY, etc.,
I wonder if the ancients really employed base-10 sets?

CCCTTT
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Re: Applying a modern Spreadsheet to prove the Megalithic Yard by Anonymous on Tuesday, 10 September 2013
This is interesting. Of course Kendall showed the MY very probably existed back in 1974. I find a similar unit in some very strange places. Years ago I studied the Anazasi kivas (circular temples) of the US south wast and found many diameters and/or circumferences were in integer MY.
The unit over there was ~2.723 ft.

Professor D P Gregg (retired)
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Re: Applying a modern Spreadsheet to prove the Megalithic Yard by Anonymous on Thursday, 08 August 2013

I suggest that the MY is based on the mathematical constant "e", or 2.71828.....

I can be reached at [email protected].
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Re: Applying a modern Spreadsheet to prove the Megalithic Yard by Anonymous on Thursday, 03 May 2012
I have found that there was not a single measurement unit used in prehistoric times. There were twelve measures all related through circular geometry and used both to measure length on the ground and ingeniously could also be used to measure time intervals when used as a pendulum. The full findings will be published soon.
Cheers
Richard Keatch
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    Re: Applying a modern Spreadsheet to prove the Megalithic Yard by Runemage on Friday, 04 May 2012
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    Hello Richard and welcome. I wondered if you were familiar with Knight and Butler's research into this and the pendulum they reckon the ancients used to measure time? Details via the links in this review. http://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=2146414005
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      Re: Applying a modern Spreadsheet to prove the Megalithic Yard by Anonymous on Thursday, 24 January 2013
      Hello yes I am aware of their idea outlined in Uriel's machine and they are correct in that one of the measurements was used to measure one megalithic degree (where there are 366 Meg degrees in a circle as opposed to 360 degrees) but they are slightly out with the measurement because they didnt consider sidereal time (rotation of Earth relative to the stars). The actual length was 41.12cm for this pendulum but there were another 11 pendulums that were also used. Interestingly there was an equivalent solar pendulum that gave 333 swings for a megalthic degree of Solar time and this pendulum was 50.0cm long which is the oldest use of the half-metre!
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Re: Applying a modern Spreadsheet to prove the Megalithic Yard by frogcottage42 on Sunday, 21 March 2010
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If you are looking for a larger data set? there are just over 100 stone circles within a 30 mile radius between West Cork and Kerry. This very dense grouping would imply a common set of builders and perhaps common reasoning behind the designs.
It is difficult to see any evidence of accurate measuring at these sites, I would fall on the side of the anonymous comment.
If there is a value at 2.72 feet it seems likely that it represents the average stride length of a mid-late Bronze Age circle builder, not much different from now?
This could also be applied to the building materials, if accurate measuring was an important factor then it is not evident in the finished structures around this area. There is definitely no shortage of stones here and should the builders have wished all the elements of these circles could have been very precise. What we do see is a great variety in size, shape and location, none of which has much common ground other than orientation.
We keep trying to...

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Re: Applying a modern Spreadsheet to prove the Megalithic Yard by Anonymous on Wednesday, 18 March 2009
Dear nick .

All of these monuments are built with one measure only, the megalithic yard is a fabrication.

They are all built in ft and inches , the same ft and inches that we use today. This is easily prooved once one knows what they built at stonhenge. Stonhenge is built to very fine tolerences and all in ft and inches.

Stonhenge is a spiritual monument that holds information of ancient mans understanding of his place in the univerese.

It contains a creation theory that shows exactly where the measure of ft and inches originated. All simple uncomplicated maths.

It realy is time that thinking people stopped looking at our ancesters as idiots . The megalithic yard is a academic fabrication to hide the truth from the masses. They are built in ft and inches fullstop. Do you wish to know exactly what was built at stonehege , if you do I will be happy to send you this work. What comes out of a proper understanding of stonhenge is a...

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Re: Applying a modern Spreadsheet to prove the Megalithic Yard by Anonymous on Wednesday, 25 February 2009
2.718 feet

Hmmmm.... isn't that what we non-mathematicians call a "pace"?

Kind Regards
Hardofthinking at hotmail dot com

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Re: Applying a modern Spreadsheet to prove the Megalithic Yard by astro3 on Wednesday, 25 February 2009
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Andy - The sum of the residuals has only one minimum in this data-set, and that is at the value of Thom's Megalithic Yard as the quantum-interval for diameter. The further you move away from that, the larger the residuals-sum becomes. If you go out to a 5.44 feet quantum-interval this just becomes just much larger (implying, that the unit size is a much worse fit to the data) It then totals around 160 feet (for the 60 diameters); compare this to the minimum of 57 feet at Thom's MY value, shown on the graph. There isn't anything resembling a second minimum in this data, if that's what you were wondering.
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Re: Applying a modern Spreadsheet to prove the Megalithic Yard by Andy B on Monday, 23 February 2009
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Thanks Nick, this is very interesting. So just to clarify. You pick a 'Quantum Unit' which is a proposed unit that the builders could have used. You then try all sizes of this unit to see which fits best in terms of whole units to measure out the diameter of the circle. The value that fits best is 2.72 feet.

What does your graph do at wider scale, at 5.44 feet for example?
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    Re: Applying a modern Spreadsheet to prove the Megalithic Yard by nursey on Monday, 23 February 2009
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    But wouldn't 5.44 feet be two paces?
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