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| Submitted by | Aerial-Cam |
| Added | Nov 24 2004 |
| Hits | 1966 |
| Votes | 0 |
Description
A view from the other side looking west.
Posted Comments:
AngieLake (2004-11-25)
I wonder what those trees in the valley are hiding? Maybe there was a settlement down there, beside a stream?
Aerial-Cam (2004-11-25)
Quite possible, but evidence of settlement sites in this area usually comes from flint scatters, except at a couple of sites where the remains of huts have also been found; two Neolithic settlements, Clegyr Boia and Coygan Camp. St Elvis may be one of the sites we visit on a field trip this weekend and so we may have a look, time and weather permitting.
enkidu41 (2005-01-22)
Does anyone know what a Phenomological Perspective is and how you can suppose it?
Andy B (2005-01-22)
I think they mean phenomenology. Not sure quite what it is, something to do with how you experience the landscape, but I know how to spell it! Try Googling it.
enkidu41 (2005-01-22)
Took your advice Andy and it's as I expected - academic gobbledegook.
Andy B (2005-01-22)
The classic book on this is A Phenomenology of Landscape, : Places, Paths and Monuments (Explorations in Anthropology S.) by
Christopher Tilley I've just seen he has a new book out on this:
The Materiality of Stone: Explorations in Landscape Phenomenology
Christopher Tilley - £12.59 on Amazon.
Looks fascinating, I wonder how impenetrable it is?
Andy B (2005-01-22)
A review here: http://www.shef.ac.uk/assem/issue8/cummings.html
Andy B (2005-01-22)
It's cutting edge archaeological thinking to those in the know. It certainly relates to the most recent thinking on sacred landscapes, so pertinent to Thornborough etc. Not to be discounted too easily.
Andy B (2005-01-22)
Vicki has a very interesting idea in the review: This book suffers the same problems that other studies of monuments and landscape face: it is extremely hard for the reader to appreciate the subtleties of the argument when one has not visited these sites. Perhaps it is time, then, to think of other ways of communicating these ideas. Tilley himself argues at the end that it is the written word which is key. However, with the internet now so widely available, and digital photography so advanced, studies such as this could potentially pioneer new ways of presenting the written word, ideas and images. The use of video images to run alongside these descriptions would, for example, have been one way to present these ideas. Even an online sequence of colour photos would have greatly strengthened the observations. For someone like Tilley, who must surely wish to move beyond linear narratives, perhaps it is time to explore new ways of telling these stories.
AngieLake (2005-01-22)
I wonder if my first comment sparked all this? All I was thinking was something so simple:- looking at the position of the tomb, I guessed that the tribe or group of settlers who built it must have lived nearby, and where better than in a sheltered valley near a stream? (unless there was a spring higher up.) Their ancestors were usually buried quite high up, so that they could be seen from far and wide, and nearer to their 'gods' during any ceremonies. You don't have to be particularly academic to see that: just have an affinity with your surroundings and an empathy with your predecessors. In other words, common sense.
enkidu41 (2005-01-22)
That's telling 'em Angie. Great! Unfortunately, common sense seems to a commodity found less in academia than in the outside world.
Thorgrim (2005-01-22)
Isn't phenomenology really what we all do when we experience a prehistoric site openly with all our perceptions and feelings? The word may be difficult to pronounce, but academic gobbledegook? Seems to me that however it is wrapped up with words, by fully appreciating the unbiased phenomenon of a prehistoric site (that includes subjective feelings and atmosphere) we can better understand it by putting aside (for a moment) the orthodox archaelological interpretation which will influence our individual interpretation. Just take in the phenomenon that we perceive - that way, we might actually get closer to the ideas that the original builders had.
enkidu41 (2005-01-22)
Just take in the phenomenon we perceive? Is that all we should do?? Well that's the philosophy of perspectivism, the ideal way of dismissing all arguments about any personally held prejudice. It is as deaf to argument and persuasion as the most conservative of rigid professionals. We are likely to get nearest to the real meaning if we have regard to all approaches, objective and subjective. With just one approach, be it academic or phenomenon-based perspective, common sense has a habit of vanishing and we simply tend to reinforce prejudices.
Thorgrim (2005-01-22)
If you read what I wrote...
I did say "putting aside (for a moment) the orthodox archaeological interpretation" and "includes subjective feelings" so that implies objective as well.
AngieLake (2005-01-22)
Andy - video images of all the sites would be great, but hard to achieve. A 360 deg sequence of photos would be ideal as long as they included the megalith, etc. I tried to include some info like this on Laughter Tor's meg, Laughter Man, but nowhere near 360 degs-worth. I find this aspect of meg-hunting/recording very interesting.
Andy B (2005-01-22)
Angie - what you're describing is like QTVR, which a number of us already go in for, including Tom Bullock. It's a bit heavy for web download, but he has a large number of QTVRs on his CD-ROM.
Aerial-Cam (2005-01-26)
Andy sorry to point to another wesite, but you could also have a look at the work of Maggie and Keith Davison http://web.ukonline.co.uk/megalithics/index.htm
Most sites have full spherical VR panoramas. I really do believe that you have to experience these places first hand (where possible) to really appreciate them, its also well worth re-visiting at different times of year and weather conditions. On our field trips we spend a lot of time looking at photographing and thinking about the landscape and the monuments and how they inter-relate. This is coupled with evidence-based facts from excavations and from what is known of similar sites. We discuss the social and economic factors as well as the spiritual and ritual possibilities. It can all get very interesting with the addition of beer and wine in the evenings. We all have a common interest but many different ways of looking at and experiencing the same thing. Isn't that what’s most fascinating. Cheers AS.
CAIOTE FU (2005-02-19)
WE SHOULD PUT ASIDE THE PHRAESIOLOGY AND JUST CONSENTRATE ON THE ARCHAEOLOGY BECAUSE THATS WHAT ITS ALL ABOUT. FORGET ABOUT PHENOMENOLOGICAL PERSPECTIVES BECAUSE IT A TOO ROMANTIZED VIEW TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY BY THE SILVER BACKS OF ARCHAEOLOGY. WE SHOULD CONSIDER PHENOMENOLOGY AS A GREAT IDEA IN SEMI-EXPERIMENTAL ARCHAEOLOGY AND THE EHNOGRAPHIC ANALOGIES PUT FORTH BY TILLEY (1994) AS A NICE IDEA BUT IS IT REALLY GETTING US CLOSER TO THE "TRUTH?" ADDITIONALLY TILLEY'S METHODOLOGY, HIS FIELDWORK APPROACHES ARE OF A LOW STANDARD. READ THE BOOK AND VISIT THE SITES AND YOU WILL SEE (I AM DOING MY DISSERTATION ON THIS VERY SUBJECT).
mishkin (2005-10-03)
See the discussion is a long time ago, but the valley below the tomb is described as a "drowned" valley. There is a spring, next to the beach,and the whole bottom of the valley is fairly boggy. On the opposite side of the valley - The Gribin, there is an iron age hillfort on the headland.
(2005-10-04)
Thanks Mishkin!
(2005-10-04)
That was Angie Lake, sorry, I'm not logged in!
CAIOTE FU (2005-12-07)
THANKS MISHKIN, THEREFORE THIS SPECTACULAR LOCAL DOES SEEM TO BE A SIGNIFICANT PALIMPSEST OF ACHAEOLOGICAL ACTIVITY CHEERS CAI.
Aerial-Cam (2006-02-22)
Thanks Mishkin, but what evidence do you have for the continuation of occupation from the Neolithic/EBA through a couple of thousand years to the Iron Age? Going back to the original question and my assumption that Angie meant a settlement site contemporary with the Burial Chamber pictured: St Elvis (PEM 20) Located on a N-W facing slope, around 61m AOD, the tomb is one of three coastal burial sites in south-west Wales which appear to have been purposely concealed from the sea. The tomb seems to have been intact in 1890, when it was described as a ‘double cromlech’. Each capstone, the largest measuring 3.7m x 3.1m, is supported by two uprights. There are traces of a mound between both chambers and on the western side of the western chamber. However, both structures are today badly damaged. It has been suggested that large stones found in nearby walls may have been plundered from the monument. Certainly, during the latter years of the 19th century, a tenant farmer from nearby St Elvis Farm was asked to stop ‘blasting’ bits of the tomb structure away!
PS. Cai, is it possible to get closer to the truth without SHOUTING!?
Cheers AS.
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