| Author | Working Reconstructed Stone Circles |
Andy B
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|  Posted 15-06-2011 at 20:32
Chris Jordan writes: Would the guys at Megalithic Portal be interested in seeing how a Stone Circle actually worked?
I have been visiting ancient structures all over the world and reconstructing them with a much success. These vary from Asiatic to the Americas and from Northern Europe to Africa, each works under the same principle, they collect and store sunlight.
After more than a decade of work, some research other experimental, it seems that the origins of this quite simple technology are the cultures of the Neoliths. It is all mapped out in the Ancient Solar Premise, the British stone circle sites are not the largest examples, but they are the most exquisite. One can see the development from the crudest to the most sophisticated over thousands of years in the UK alone.
See site : http://secretsofthesunsects.wordpress.com/
The Ancient Solar Hypothesis : http://secretsofthesunsects.wordpress.com/2011/06/06/the-ancient-solar-hypothesis/
As an engineer you may appreciate the architectural design more than most, I can assure you that it leads to a view of the ancient peoples way above that current patronizing perspective. At the very least you may find a short article interesting to your subscribers.
Regards
Chris Jordan
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Andy B
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| Posted 15-06-2011 at 20:32
Hello, thanks but I don't see the connection to stone circles. I think
you need to explain it a bit more. All rocks warm up in the sun, even
natural ones - how do stone circles in particular collect and store
sunlight? They consist of rough stones, not finely polished parabolas.
Thanks
Andy
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cerrig
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| Posted 16-06-2011 at 03:27
Another solar theory for Stonehenge( with a book behind it )
The solstice must be a good time to bring these out.
http://www.eternalidol.com/?p=9655
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TheCaptain
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| Posted 16-06-2011 at 10:50
I personally like the big gear wheels theory better!
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karloff
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| Posted 16-06-2011 at 12:04
Hi
All that effort to fry some eggs!
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Runemage
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| Posted 16-06-2011 at 12:33
I do like to see the amount of effort some people put into developing their theories, taking it from an idea into a working concept. Anyone can sit down and do the cerebral stuff but some of these chaps have gone to great lengths to see if their theories are viable. The link Cerrig quoted has a piece about the author making a piece of tin on a bonfire in his garden. Irrespective of whether the theories are right wrong or maybe, they all deserve some recognition for trying
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SecretsoftheSunSects
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| Posted 16-06-2011 at 13:22
Similar idea but a lot more complicated. The Ancient Solar Premise applies neatly to simple and complicated sites, large and small. It also explains the variety along with the similarities. I did not realize that the subject would go straight to forum, so there is not much up. I will post some pictures that make it possible for anyone to build a working circle if they should desire.
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tiompan
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| Posted 16-06-2011 at 13:34
Might explain the number of cremations found at stone circles .
George
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SecretsoftheSunSects
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| Posted 16-06-2011 at 13:35
Even more effort to build an exquisite solar palace that could keep the residents warm without the wonders of gas. And probably get the bacon as well.
The ancients were using the sun, not worshiping it.
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tiompan
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| Posted 16-06-2011 at 13:41
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On 2011-06-16 13:35, SecretsoftheSunSects wrote:
Even more effort to build an exquisite solar palace that could keep the residents warm without the wonders of gas. And probably get the bacon as well.
The ancients were using the sun, not worshiping it.
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Some stone circles were less energy efficient than others though possibly requiring greater insulation in the gaps , a recumbent on a warm day is still cosy for the sheep but some upland circles with stones just appearing above the grass/heather must have been only for the fur clad .
George
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SecretsoftheSunSects
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| Posted 16-06-2011 at 15:39
Hi Andy
I am sure this hastily put together article will draw all manner of comments from those who are focused on the later uses of the stone circles. I just put together the working models, as anyone can see from my profile, I never professed to be a historian.
It deals primarily with the ancient methods for heating huge communal spaces. The same principle applies to other styles of ancient site, both small and large, tall and short. This is just a neat starting point on site types most are familiar with. Plenty of controversy already.
See : http://secretsofthesunsects.wordpress.com/2011/06/16/stone-circles-reconstructed/
I am sure I can put together a better version for publication, but this will save people having to waste five bucks on a book. Like the Secrets of the Sun Sects  .
I was wondering if there were any megalithic experts on this forum who had found the small shaving mirror sized sun disks that make up the other strand of the Ancient solar Premise.
Chris Jordan
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davidmorgan
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| Posted 16-06-2011 at 16:17
Is there any evidence anywhere of the sun being harnessed for industrial processes?
And has anyone actually done any experiments regarding the heat retention of rocks warmed by the sun (e.g. basalt - a nice dense dark rock)? Any absorption/radiation numbers?
"Once the late afternoon is reached, even though there are hours of daylight left, there is not enough energy to cook effectively in a solar oven. You cannot begin cooking with a typical solar oven in the late afternoon or early evening, when many people begin cooking their evening meal. You cannot cook breakfast in the early morning with a solar oven. You are limited to cooking lunch or cooking dinner early." Heat Retention Solar Oven
Which seems to suggest that this idea is wrong...
"When the easterly shiny doors are opened to the rising sun, the light falls on the stone and heats it. In the afternoon, these doors are shut and the westerly doors are opened to warm the stone from the setting sun." Solar Heating of Dark Stones
It all sounds a bit like science fiction to me...
[ This message was edited by: davidmorgan on 2011-06-16 16:18 ]
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MikeAitch
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| Posted 16-06-2011 at 16:25
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On 2011-06-15 20:32, Andy B wrote:
All rocks warm up in the sun |
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That's something I love about the summer solstice; touching the stones in the early hours and feeling the heat radiating from the previous days sun! 
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tiompan
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| Posted 16-06-2011 at 16:33
The hot and sunny areas where it would be most effective are also those where the cooling effects of a stone building would be most appreciated .
George
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SecretsoftheSunSects
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| Posted 16-06-2011 at 16:33
David
it might sound like sci-fi, but the brahman sanctuary is the most efficient method of utilizing solar energy. It even allows the food to be cooked at night with the retained heat of the stones. A modern example using the geometry is here http://secretsofthesunsects.wordpress.com/the-sun-devices/and-finally/ under the ''simple solar cooker'' link. It allows the poor rural communities to use the sunlight that you have correctly noted is wasted.
As for industrial solar centers, according to the Grand Ancient Solar Premise, the pyramid complexes all over the world are ancient solar industrial complexes. See Secrets of the Sun Sects. I have no doubt that there was an agro-industrial component to the stone circles as well.
As for the absorption rates and heat profile of basalt, dark granite and obsidian they are all composites so only ranges are quoted. Obsidian is a quite amazing stone type that stores heat in a second internal reaction and maintains the same temp as it does it. At least the solar premise gives the ancients a reason to lug black stones half way across the country.
As for sci-fi, well make a simple stone circle, brahman sanctuary and prove it is science fact.
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SecretsoftheSunSects
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| Posted 16-06-2011 at 16:38
George
what you say is true, but it is in the less temperate climates where the sophisticated techniques are developed, because they do not have much sun. When the ancient britons exported the ideas to the tropics, the methods did indeed flourish and left us the amazing pyramid building cultures with sanctuaries all over them.
Why in the heat would one want to make merit/ceremony in a building with no shade, it is too dam hot? No answer from the culture vultures, but the solar premise states explicitly that these structures were aligned and designed to collect and store solar energy for industry.
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SecretsoftheSunSects
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| Posted 16-06-2011 at 16:39
Is that a thumbs up for the solar premise?
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Andy B
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| Posted 16-06-2011 at 16:57
No, only to the point that all large stones store some warmth from the sun for a few hours.
As for "The ancients stored solar energy in huge stones, housed in sealed chambers and used it to cook and dry crops when they needed." no, certainly not enough to cook by.
Perhaps to dry crops while the sun was out, if they were laid out on flat stones then yes but you don't need a stone circle, any large flat stone will do for this.
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Andy B
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| Posted 16-06-2011 at 16:59
Chris replied by email:
The Ancient Solar Premise (ASP) is a framework that covers tens of thousands of sites and most of the successful ancient cultures across the globe. Whilst sun dishes are relevant to the concept, they are not particularly important with respect to the stone circles.
If you read the summary of the ASP it is simply about directing sunlight onto large black stones and warming them to a point where they are useful to the constructors. As the physics detailed in my book shows, the small structures of the tropics collect 50-100Kw per day and the temple mountains over 2MW per day. This energy was used to dry crops, cook food and boil water, which is pretty useful in an oil & gas free environment. This detail is easy to confirm because the relevant cultures are quite recent.
These sun chambers have between 1 and 4 tall thin doorways used to collect sunlight. The Grand Ancient Solar Premise spreads the concept to sites further from the tropics, such as Europe. Whilst there are single doorway chambers with dark stones deep inside at the sunny end, it is the colossal stone circles that convince most people of the solar principle. The exquisite geometry is beyond question and can be proved with simple models. Stonehenge collects and stores over 170Kw of useful solar energy per hour of sun in the winter & summer. In the non-benign climate the builders lived in, this could prove the difference between survival and demise.
Stone Circle Buildings
There are some controversial elements to the application of the ancient solar premise to stone circles. The most controversial seems to be that Stonehenge had a roof. This I find bizarre. What is the difference between a roundhouse, a Woodhenge and Stonehenge? Just bigger and better buildings as far as I can tell. Clearly Stonehenge is the remaining foundations of an incredibly ancient circular palace/fort, which still served this purpose at the time of the roman invasion.
The Solar Function
At the center of the solar stone circles, there was invariably a large dark obelisk, this is where the sunlight was absorbed and stored. Who is going to say dark stones do not get hot in the sun? The simplest stone circles (roundhouses/woodcircles/yurts) can work like south facing bay windows, allowing light in and having it absorbed by the stone, floor and walls. This confers on the builder a domestic warming factor that is still useful in reducing fuel bills by 40% today. In ancient times this could be the difference between traveling miles to a wood and meeting enemies or animals along the way.
Whilst this is useful, it is the most controversial aspect of the ASP as it applies to stone circles that shows truly sophisticated use of sunlight. According to some ancient writers, there were circular stone palaces that were covered in reflective metals and permitted the monarch's ''to sit in the central chamber warmed without fire, whilst snow lay on the ground''. If Levy's accounts are to be believed, there were still wooden doors/barricades on the outside of stonehenge thousands of years after it's original function had been displaced. These doors are similar in form and function to the brass/gold/silver covered doors that grace the sanctuaries of Asia. Each slit between the outer circle standing stones had a pair of large reflective doors that directed sunlight into the great chamber. Only seven pairs were opened at a time, as the sun moved around the most easterly pair were closed and the next most westerly pair were opened. This warmed the central pillar and the palace in the cold of winter. In summer no doubt there were crops dried, meats cooked and waters boiled like the Asiatic devices.
There are further elements to the neolithic exposition of the solar concept including double stone absorber oval structure, amazing metal floors, natural night lighting, water collection, secondary circle absorbers etc. Each really deserves an article in its own right, particularly the source materials and comparisons. The complete model makes the constructors of the stone circles much more than stone lugging, sun worshiping fools the Roman historians would have us believe. There is a fundamental role in the inception of the great cultures of near antiquity to consider, but that is a long story.
This is a very poor summary of the stone circles as described in the Secrets of the Sun Sects and I realize it will not sit well with those interested in the ceremonial/ethereal functions that followed. However for those who wish to build working versions of the structures, it should be enough. I guarantee that if models are built according to this scheme or the detailed plans in the book, there will be no doubt. A few people did question the premise, one even had a stone circle in his back garden in Sweden, not one of them would pick up the center stone of the working scale models.
As for the cynical comment about selling books, my goal is to show that the successful cultures of the past relied heavily on solar energy, so that people begin to think it is more than a niche source today. Most of my work involves using the ancient techniques outlined in the books to help alleviate poverty, make new materials and save energy. I am happy to provide free copies to anyone who approaches the subject with an open mind and is willing to build these structures and become an advocate once they have convinced themselves of its validity. Seeing is believing.
In ten years not a single person has contradicted the theory and it delivers ancient devices that create 500Mw/sqm and some that collect 2Mw a day, which is a fair testimonial. Many have questioned the possibilities of ancients using the tools in this way, but eventually they come around. The ideas fundamentally change peoples views of antiquity and some modern ones.
I can post pictures of the Stone circle geometry or an article if needed.
See site : http://secretsofthesunsects.wordpress.com/
The Ancient Solar Premise : http://secretsofthesunsects.wordpress.com/2011/06/06/the-ancient-solar-hypothesis/
Regards
Chris Jordan
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davidmorgan
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| Posted 16-06-2011 at 17:42
Quote:
| On 2011-06-16 16:57, Andy B wrote:
Perhaps to dry crops while the sun was out, if they were laid out on flat stones then yes but you don't need a stone circle, any large flat stone will do for this. |
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And you don't really need stone for that - drying peanuts in Turkey (4.8MB .wmv)
[ This message was edited by: davidmorgan on 2011-06-16 17:43 ]
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