| Author | Heliocentric Stonehenge |
rogeralbin
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|  Posted 16-01-2016 at 17:14
Long before Coppernicus the Sun centred orbits of the planets seem to appear depicted at Stonehenge.
Mercury, the 28 stone inner oval. Mercury also has the most elongated orbit of the planets with its perihelion/aphelion axis similar to the winter/summer Stonehenge axis.
Venus, the 56 bluestone circle.
Earth, The Sarsen circle, the 29.5 days of the lunar month incorporated into the design allowing annual, monthly or nightly computations.
Mars,the 56 Auberys.
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Feanor
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| Posted 17-01-2016 at 05:37
Hi Rog!
It's cool that you arrived at the Cosmological nature of the design in the final Stonehenge Phase - but let's up the ante a bit, yes?
Stonehenge appears to be GeoCentric with Solar Emphasis in the final design, though it certainly had a Lunar Emphasis before the Stones were installed.
Remember that these folks probably wove celestial observations in with their belief system, so let's take a look at these for a moment without the modern separation of science and religion.
What's the Earth like? Well firstly it's round - a globe, really, and we know this by doing some fairly simple experiments with sticks, the Sun and the ocean's horizon.
The world is lit up by the Sun, and it seems as though when the Sun is warm, things start to grow. So the Sun is running the show as far as being alive is concerned. The interaction between the Sun and Earth is pretty amazing because without the Sun nothing grows on Earth, and without Earth there's no place for anything to grow. So it appears that Sun and Earth are married eternally.
Where do we go when we die? Is it a good thing or a bad thing. Probably a bad thing, so we need to keep the dead away from the living because it's no doubt a pretty dark place. Hey! Behind all those stars the sky's pretty dark, so they probably go there.
How do we represent this Dark Place of Death? We dig a big circular ditch and put the fill on the Inside - to act as a barrier between light and dark.
Well, clearly Moon rules the night, so she must be in charge of the Dead. But she's tricky and capricious, and unlike her brilliant, steady brother her motions are very complicated, only following rules of her own. But her motions Are predictable, and in learning these, she can be kept under constant surveillance.
Watching her for a very long time, we see that she reaches a high point and a low point on the horizon every 18.6 years, and from start to finish the cycle takes 55.8 years. This is pretty close to 56, so we'll dig that number of holes out against the interior bank and put Bluestones in them, because by watching Moon and counting holes we learn that there's 364 days in a year consisting of 13 months. This is 28 days in a month and 7 days in a week. At Winter Solstice we add an extra day to make up for the shortfall, while every 4 years we add an additional day in June.
Now it's a couple of centuries later, and we're a lot smarter than those creepy, superstitious savages who dug the ditch. No longer in fear of our lives because of Moon, we wish to exemplify our Mother Earth and the relationship with her Sun husband. So we build a towering five-arch set of huge stones shaped like a horse's foot. Graduated in height, they represent Mother's womb, with opposing Stones in each set being male and female. So now in June, Sun comes and makes visit upon his beautiful wife, and she bears new life at Vernal Equinox, nine months later.
Shortly thereafter, her body is further represented by a finely crafted circle of 30 enormous stones and perfectly level lintels. As solid and imperishable as the Earth itself, the number of them hark to a memory of the still-important Moon, wherein we see a slender Stone out on the South circle. Stone-11 is only half as wide as the rest, so we have 29 ... and a half Stones - the same number of days in a sidereal month.
The 56 Bluestones of the Inner Circle also recall to the Moon, but they are small, shabby affairs, emphasizing Moon's diminished standing when compared to Earth & Sun.
The 28 tall and elegant Bluestones of the Inner Oval represent the Egg of Fertility. The number probably originates with the Moon of course, but more than likely it evolved to more accurately indicate a woman's monthly cycle.
Are we done? Why no - not quite yet.
In summer, all is green and warm. Fish jump, lambs gambol and the living is easy. But in Winter, all is cold, wet and dreary. Sun has fled to the south (just like the Dead) and Earth misses him. At Winter Solstice we see her represented out on the southwest Circle as a six-months pregnant Stone-16. Mother is proudly displaying her bounty to the departing Husband as he dips into the uttermost depths of winter.
There he lays on that horizon point, seemingly dead, for 3 days, before being reborn to begin his northward travel once again. He will be on hand and warm enough to assist at her delivery in spring, 3 months later.
So then, The Ditch & Bank are the Place of the Dead, beyond the stars, and the barrier which prevents their intrusion back into Sun's Domain. Old, curated auroch skulls placed in the Ditch on either side of the Southern Gap act as powerful wards against any attempt to sneak back in.
The 56 Aubreys are a kind of Lunar Calendar, which not only breaks down the year into days and months, but also announces the seasons. (More on that another time).
The Station Stones position the site at 51-degrees North Latitude and define the size of Earth - constrained by the orbits of Moon and Sun.
The Trilithons are Mother's Womb.
The Stone Circle replaces the Henge as Earth
The Inner Bluestones are a symbolic memory of Moon. (We're still keeping an eye on you!)
The Inner Bluestone Oval is the Egg of Fertility.
The Heelstone represents Father Sun's manhood in shadow, long enough at Solstice Sunrise to penetrate the Circle as far as the Altar Stone.
The Slaughter Stone and long-gone Stone-D, positioned on either side of the Axis, represented the other two essential parts of his anatomy.
I do not see any stars or planets directly represented at Stonehenge, though there's little doubt that they were observed from there.
I hope this rambling narrative has been helpful.
Best,
Neil
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rogeralbin
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| Posted 21-01-2016 at 03:41
Niel,
Sorry you did not get it. There is a very simple core observation here.
That is remove the altar stone, trilathons, station stones, heelstone, henge etc all except the three stone rings.
What you are left with are three concentric rings around the centre of the site the Inner oval bluestones, the outer bluestone circle and surrounding them the sarsen circle.
Quite simply the plan of the circles at SH is the plan of the inner solar system.
Sarsen= earth orbit, bluestone circle= Venus orbit and bluestone oval= Mercury orbit and all in pretty good proportion too.
I am acutely aware that the easiest way for me to demonstrate this would be to superimpose a scale solar system plan over the stonehenge plan, however due to my computing shortcomings I can not. However in my next post I will have a stab at a mathematical proof.
Rog
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rogeralbin
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| Posted 21-01-2016 at 04:24
To demonstrate that the Stonhenge rings scale up to the orbits of the three inner planets of the solar system.
Niel posted a diagram "Stonehenge as it would appear if the components were intact" on page 1 of the Megalithic foot thread.
On this plan along the solstice axis the sarsen circle has a diameter of 32mm, the outer bluestone circle 24 and the inner bluestone oval 13mm.
The Earth orbit diameter is 2 Astronomical Units AU therefore 2 AU divided by 32mm of sarsen circle gives a scale on the plan of 0.0625 AU to the millimetre.
The outer bluestone Venus circle; Venus orbit diameter 1.444 AU divided by 24mm = 0.0601666 AU per mm.
The inner bluestone oval Mercury; Mercury orbit diameter 773 AU divided by 13= 0.0594615AU per mm.
Therefore the Mercury earth ratio is less than 5% out of modern measure and the Venus Earth ratio about 3% out of modern measure. For perspective Jerome Lalande the french astronomer credited with the first accurate measure of the distance from Earth to Venus in 1771 was 2% off modern standards.
I would suggest that for the rings of Stonehenge to have that level of accuracy to the orbits of the inner planets and the ratio between themselves and by extension the Sun can only be the result of serious intent.
Rog.
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jonm
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| Posted 21-01-2016 at 07:44
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| I would suggest that for the rings of Stonehenge to have that level of accuracy to the orbits of the inner planets and the ratio between themselves and by extension the Sun can only be the result of serious intent. |
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I think you should develop this hypothesis Rog. An essential first step will be to produce a diagram showing what you're proposing.
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ainsloch
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| Posted 23-01-2016 at 16:24
Hi rogeralbin,
The image below might be what you are looking for. I had the same idea some years ago and knocked together this diagram, and had pretty much forgotten all about it until I saw your post. Mind you I didn't extend the scheme beyond the sarsen ring (Earth). There is definitely a correlation in my view, but of course proving that it was intentional is another matter!
*I should state, I used Richard Atkinson's figures for the dimensions of Stonehenge. The plan I retrieved from the internet somewhere. It is much outdated now but gives a general idea of the scheme.*
Ainsloch
[ This message was edited by: ainsloch on 2016-01-23 16:53 ]
Edited to resize image
[ This message was edited by: davidmorgan on 2016-01-25 14:11 ]
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rogeralbin
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| Posted 23-01-2016 at 17:01
Thanks for that ainsloch, I will readily admit the initial post on the other thread was my imagination running in top gear and that I had reeled my neck in somewhat when I started this particular thread. However you have the concept perfectly.
Rog
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rogeralbin
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| Posted 23-01-2016 at 17:18
Interestingly the 28 stone oval 88 day Mercury orbit is 88/28, 22/7 or 3.1428571.
The more accurate 87.969 days is 3.1475, pi commonly approximated at 3.14159.
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ainsloch
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| Posted 24-01-2016 at 15:44
Hi Rog,
It appears your initial thinking was actually pretty spot on here, to an extent. I thought I would take another look at extending the planetary scheme at Stonehenge working with a better and more extensive plan, as previously I had only checked the mean planetary orbits up to Mars, whose circle falls between the Z and Y Holes circles. However remarkably the maximum orbit of Mars or aphelion fits nicely over the Y Holes circle. And as it turns out the mean orbit of Ceres (the largest asteroid in the asteroid belt) fits very closely to the Aubrey circle. This means that the Aubrey circle can be viewed as the asteroid belt in general.
The maths for Ceres is as follows:
Ceres mean orbital radius = 414.01 million KM, so the ratio between this and Earth mean orbital radius of 149.598 million KM is 2.76748. Multiplying the outer sarsen circle diameter of 104.3 feet by 2.76748 gives 288.648 feet. The generally accepted value for the Aubrey circle diameter appears to be 283 feet, so about 5.5 feet out. Some older sources actually give 288 feet. However either way the fit is still very precise for the asteroid belt in general, and visually on the plan itself. I have done a new diagram incorporating Mars and Ceres into the scheme, however the plan I used is Crown copyright so I don't want to post it publicly on the forum. If you message me privately though we can sort something out.
This means that the only circles the inner solar system scheme can't account for is the Z Holes circle and the henge enclosure itself. All in all, pretty remarkable stuff methinks. 
[ This message was edited by: ainsloch on 2016-01-25 20:30 ]
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jonm
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| Posted 24-01-2016 at 16:31
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| All in all, pretty remarkable stuff methinks. |
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Good hypothesis & worth pursuing. Would they have known about Jupiter and Saturn if they knew about Mars, Venus and Mercury?
If you are right, perhaps you can use the hypothesis to predict features that can not be determined without investigation but are are yet to be investigated? (so are not in the textbooks). The Geocentric Hypothesis already has a couple of these and will have a quite a few more, when I get the time to write it all up, so I imagine that there may be scope for this hypothesis to do the same.
Jon
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rogeralbin
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| Posted 24-01-2016 at 18:03
Thanks Ainsloch and jon.
The thing that sold it to me was the Mercury ellipse, much more pronounced than the almost circular Venus and Earth ellipses.
I have been looking at what I think is the real clincher today, the apsidal precession of Mercury.
The Perihelion of Mercury migrates at a faster rate than Earth, on the diagrams it is at or near the Earth Solstice axis it would therefore not be expected to be there now, nor is it but earlier in December.
Probably beyond me but construction ought be datable by arcseconds.
rog
ps The oval occurs at Woodhenge and at least one other site the name of which I have mislaid.
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ainsloch
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| Posted 24-01-2016 at 21:44
>>Would they have known about Jupiter and Saturn if they knew about Mars, Venus and Mercury? <<
Hi Jon and cheers,
One might naturally expect so. When I get the time I will take a closer look at the outer planets and see if anything else turns up.
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Feanor
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| Posted 25-01-2016 at 13:55
The five canonical planets have been known about since we lifted our faces to the sky, (he said, waxing poetic - lol)
In a geo-centric system the line-up would be: Earth at center, Moon, Sun, and the others in their regular order because the farther out we go the longer they take to orbit. The stars would occur beyond those. (Jupiter may have been confusing because it's much brighter than Mars.)
Because Venus & Mercury never fully transit the sky, perhaps it was thought they circled the Sun in its orbit around Earth.
Within reason, the orbits of the outer worlds would be predictable, as the two most distant, Jupiter and Saturn, occur within a lifetime. (12 & 30 years), while the stars act as an immutable background against which everything is observed.
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I don't believe the planets are represented at Stonehenge, though a likely place might be Avebury.
Jon knows a lot more about that site than I do.
The planetary ratios found within the stone oval and circles is almost certainly co-incidental. Why, for example, would two of these occur inside the Earth itself?
Neil
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rogeralbin
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| Posted 25-01-2016 at 17:39
Niel,
Perhaps you have a misconception, the poposal is that the sarsen ring is not the sphere of the Earth but the orbit of the Earth. Therefore the planetary ratios of the bluestone circle and oval are not within the body of the Earth but within the orbit of the Earth. Entirely where they ought to be, it is implicit that the Sun is at the Centre of the system and monument, even if not marked as such.
Rog
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jonm
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| Posted 25-01-2016 at 18:40
Hi Ainslock and Rog
Would be interesting to see if there are other correlations.
Hi Neil
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| As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I don't believe the planets are represented at Stonehenge, though a likely place might be Avebury.
Jon knows a lot more about that site than I do. |
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Using the same method of describing a geocentric cosmos as found at Stonehenge, the Avebury circle describes the Earth & the general sphere of stars. The Southern circle and its features describe the moon to a limited degree but would appear to focus specifically on the sun's movement during the day of winter solstice. There's a post describing it all somewhere and it's also on the blog.
There is no reference to any of the planets at Avebury if you use a geocentric layout. The thing that this type of layout describes is the same sun-based fear (for community survival) that would cause a Newgrange type structure to be built (together with a Knowth type system). I would guess that Newgrange is too far away to have made a major impact on Avebury, so it's possible that there may have been barrows nearby with both solstice orientations and orientations close to equinox.
But I have no idea how Avebury would fit a heliocentric viewpoint
Jon
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ainsloch
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| Posted 25-01-2016 at 20:29
>>Would be interesting to see if there are other correlations.<<
Well Roger suggested to me that the Heelstone should give Jupiter's orbit. It does exactly that; that is the perihelion or closest orbit of Jupiter. The maths is as follows:
The ratio of Jupiter's orbital radius (at perihelion) or 740.5736 million KM to Earth's mean orbital radius or 149.598 million KM = 4.9504.
The sarsen circle outer radius of 52.15 feet x 4.9504 = 258.16 feet. Therefore at Stonehenge a circle with this radius, enclosing the henge, can be said to represent the closest orbit of Jupiter in the scheme previously described. Looking at Google Earth this seems to be near enough exactly the distance of the Heelstone from the centre of Stonehenge.
Nice one Roger, there appears to be a lot more going on here than I initially appreciated!
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ainsloch
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| Posted 25-01-2016 at 21:21
Ok I just checked Mercury's maximum orbit or aphelion and it fits nicely over the horseshoe of trilithons. I will look at updating the graphic I posted previously.
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