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Removing of the turf at the centre of the circle before some sham

Posted Comments:

avebury101 (2008-07-06)

what a disgrace, this really upsets me, to see this,being done,I would never dream people could be so thoughtless,as to ruin out prehistoric stone circles,Seeing this makes you under stand,why we are not allowed in the inner circle of Stonehenge,

Andy B (2008-07-07)

Have you got a front view of the man lifting the turf? Fair enough to hold a ceremony but this is criminal damage.

thecaptain (2008-07-07)

Unfortunately not. But maybe one of my friends has...

Beorwulf (2008-07-07)

As a practicing Pagan, I wish to condemn these disrespectful, brainless idiots. I hope they are identified and the police or national park authority informed. Shame on them!

Andy B (2008-07-07)

OK, does anyone know either of the 'ringleaders'? The stones and or Pagan communities (so-called Pagan let's say in this case) are quite small. Are they a known Pagan or New Age society? If you are on any Pagan web communities please let them know about this and the other photo.

Cymraes (2008-07-07)

I agree, no true Pagan would desecrate ANY Sacred Place such as this, in this way! What were they thinking off?

Sham ceremony? Sham Pagans m'thinks?!?!!

Beorwulf (2008-07-08)

The Druid Network are on to this, apparently they are not from the Cumbrian Druid Order and investigations continue. Will post any names that come up.

ghostlly (2008-07-08)

Did they replace the turf when they were done? I agree that digging on a site such as this is probably not a good thing, other than that I see no real harm done. Was there any other damage other than the grass which is surely not ancient?

Andy B (2008-07-08)

They were apparently going to light a fire, before Captain intervened. He left before they finished so for all we know they still did light a fire. The evidence will be up at Castlerigg if anyone is nearby.

MikeAitch (2008-07-08)

what a disgrace, i believe i have found the idiots here: http://www.liverpool-holistic-circle.org/page17.htm
http://www.liverpool-holistic-circle.org/page13.htm
http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:AJxjxT6RJmsJ:http://www.liverpool-holistic-circle.org/USERIMAGES/Tata-Pedro-Schedule-England.doc+castlerigg+ceremony&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=16&gl=uk
note the phoney mayan costumes, the date and the 'fire' ceremony description. they left the uk yesterday for germany, if anyone knows contributors from germany please give them warning that the same is most likely to happen there!

graemefield (2008-07-08)

I have e-mailed the liverpool holistic circle with some questions in reference to the above photo, it will be interesting to hear if they will own up to the criminal damage carried out. Or will they deny it? i will keep you all informed. If members of their crazy middle class sect were responsible then i hope they may heed our advice.

MikeAitch (2008-07-08)

i wonder how they would react to someone desecrating one of their ancient mayan sites?
i too have emailed asking for details of their upcoming events in germany, will post if i recieve any info asap ;)

graemefield (2008-07-08)

whilst they are visiting germany we should dig up the centre of their meeting place and leave them a coprolite deposit.

Andy B (2008-07-08)

I think it is just their Mayan man who has gone to Germany.
The contact given on the web page for Unification Maya is
Louise Rothwell at [email protected] or tel: (01695) 577560.

And look here elsewhere on the Liverpool Holistic site.
It's the very same Louise. On the right I presume!
http://www.liverpool-holistic-circle.org/page17.htm

She looks very familiar. She was leading the ceremony in our photo.
I think we should (politely but very firmly) let her know what we think of her fire ceremony.
Digging holes and lighting fires at a scheduled ancient monument is a serious offence.
And make sure they NEVER do it again at an ancient site in the UK.
Isn't the internet great!

graemefield (2008-07-08)

fantastic news Andy B. Good to hear that we are on to the right people, lets hope you are correct and we can put a stop to this type of behaviour. And yes, the internet is great!

Andy B (2008-07-08)

Some other useful background
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1033432/Englands-history-threat-How-vandalism-neglect-left-treasured-heritage-sites-risk.html
We reported a recent prosecution of a man damaging ancient monuments. Can anyone remember what the details were?

tremblaym (2008-07-08)

Thank you all for educating us all!

graemefield (2008-07-08)

was it the rollright stones paint damage? i think it featured on BBC crimewatch, as should our recent castlerigg desecration.

Andy B (2008-07-08)

I don't think the Rollright people were caught. Video of this would have been great for Crimewatch although Captain would have had to sit back and let them light their fire instead of intervening.

Andy B (2008-07-08)

I've started a forum thread as this is getting a bit long. More there;
http://www.megalithic.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=Forum&file=viewtopic&topic=2994&forum=4

MikeAitch (2008-07-08)

i think its worth informing English Heritage about the wanton criminal damage and the identity of the perpetrators;

English Heritage
Customer Services Department
PO Box 569
Swindon
SN2 2YP
England

Email: [email protected]
Phone: +44 (0) 870 333 1181
Fax: +44 (0) 1793 414926

cumbriandruid (2008-07-08)

Hi, Paul from the CDO here. We were in no way part of this desecration of Castlerigg, and I shall be contacting this group, Liverpool Holistic Centre, to register my outrage at their complete inability to be holistic to all faiths and beliefs, and inform them that vandalism is not welcome in a Cumbrian Circle. Many people spent days in all weathers last year returfing Castlerigg to preserve and enhance its beauty.

snake (2008-07-09)

I believe this chaps name is Pedro Gonzalez.
I heard his name being called up there on that very day!
It was disgraceful. lucky enough some large bloke stepped in and prevented them from startinga fire.

gercmbyrne (2008-07-09)

I've emailed them and asked whether they were involved and if so they should apologize.

Andy B (2008-07-09)

Reposting this link for thecaptain as it upset the formatting. Louise Roswell is also involved in the School of Creative Kinesiology

Andy B (2008-07-09)

Creative what? Is that like Creative Accounting?

Andy B (2008-07-10)

Liverpool Holistic centre have just updated their home page to say the following:
http://www.liverpool-holistic-circle.org/index.htm

IMPORTANT NOTICE
We have received several emails regarding the Mayan Ceremony conducted by Tata Pedro at Castlerigg on 29th June. We wish to point out that Liverpool Holistic Circle was not the organiser of this event and that none of its committee members was present at Castlerigg on that day. We are therefore unable to comment on anything which may have occured there.
For information about Tata Pedro, follow the Unificacion Maya link on the menu.

Funny that, but they have also just updated the Unificacion Maya page to remove the link to the document about the fire ceremonies. They claim they weren't organising them but they were certainly promoting the said events. Fortunately I have the original saved. For now it's also still in the Google cache on the link posted above by MikeAitch.

It would be a nice Holistic thing to condemn the damage to an ancient monument, instead of jumping to protect their own asses.
We await comment from Louise Rothwell, who does appear to be the main organiser.

thecaptain (2008-07-10)

Another witness account to this event can be seen here.

I guess I was that "large bloke" snake.

snake (2008-07-10)

well done TheCaptain, that was very courageous of you!
You were outnumbered by a bunch of probable drug using hippies dressed as clowns!! Heaven knows what their morals are.

ASHAMED2b BR1T1SH (2008-07-10)

FOR THE ATTENTION OF ALL;
___________________________

First of all I hope THECAPTAIN is ashamed of this outrageous accusation, everyone posting comments should get FACT prior to engaging in disputes based on lies and especially geared around ego.

Approximately 50 people witnessed this beautiful ANCIENT MAYA CEREMONY, THE TRUTH IS THE TURF WAS CUT THE WEEK PRIOR at THE SOLSTICE CEREMONY of which many of the "Cumbrian Druid Order" were present, there are witnesses who are happy to stand up and voice the TRUTH.

COUNCILLOR PAUL BILLS was present at the Solstice Ceremony the week before whereby their attendees cut the turf for their fire within the centre of Castlerigg stone circle and BY NO MEANS DID ANYONE WHO ATTENDED TATA PEDRO'S FIRE CEREMONY cut the turf, the ALREADY CUT TURF was carefully removed and respectfully replaced back in order, "that is the truth"

I AM UTTERLY ashamed to be British, reading comments posted on this page has highlighted just how embarrassing and ignorant we British truly are, we can learn a lot from the Maya culture and many other cultures, if we only but step outside our ego and truly connect with mother earth, we need to learn to respect others and treat them how we would like to be treat.

I sincerely hope you all find peace inside yourselves, and refrain from abusing other people's beliefs to polish your ego in the future. ASHAMED2b_BR1T1SH

nb. Does the captain have authorisation to upload photos of the public without their consent?? is that illegal one asks, this will be pursued.

cumbriandruid (2008-07-10)

"Ashamed2b British", I challenge your lying foul tongue. The Cumbrian Druid Order were not present at the Mayan Ceremony, for first thing. Secondly, at the Solstice, there was one fire, already lit when the CDO arrived at circa 11pm, and it was at the western edge of the Circle. There were no open fires within the circle, although there were fire-jugglers (well, fire-droppers, for the most part) which may explain any scorched turf. The CDO do not condone open fires laid upon the Earth within any Stone Circle, but we do recognise that some spiritual paths welcome fire into ceremony, and we seek a compromise with such paths - open fires in braziers, perhaps?.

Bring forward your witnesses, you lying toad, that can bolster your lie that we cut the turf, and I'll call them out for their mistruth too.

When individuals give their time freely to preserve the beauty of Castlerigg and keep the turf renewed and the circle beautiful, I certainly would not allow my members to wreck that work by being so ignorant as to burn the ground. This has always been my stance, always will be.

Paul, CDO

BlueCrow (2008-07-10)

I was present on the eve of the solstice and I'm a member of CDO. There were no fires in the circle, only on the outter edge. Of which I have numerous photographic evidence of.

I have nothing but respect for the Mayan culture. I have no respect to charlations parading as 'the wise' for personal gain. Stay out of our stones or the energies you raise there will be of no benefit to you.

Want to challenge this in a court of law? Be my guest, I will personally take it all the way. Where can post up the evidence?

Naomi Blue Crow
Warrior Priestess - Loyal Arthurian Warband
Shaman of Cumbrian Druid Order

BlueCrow (2008-07-10)

also, why are you ashamed to be British? That is an offensive label you wear. Holistic - why don't you meditate on the meaning of the world because your group certainly don't see the whole, only your own divinity. How much did you charge for this ceremony? You advertised other fire rituals at Avebury, we shall be passing this on to the Guardians there. Expect more letters of protest. Take responsibility for your actions, eat humble pie - you were caught out. What does your Mayan guest say about this - he would be horrified to know he caused offence?

MikeAitch (2008-07-10)

The very fact that so many people form different backgrounds religions and beliefs have united here to voice their outrage at your shambolic Mayan groups disgraceful actions makes me very proud to be British. Noneone has the right to damage so much as a blade of grass at our ancient sites. You had no right to desecrate the Castlerigg circle by removing turf and starting a fire in the centre of the circle for your own selfish reasons even if the turf had been removed before as you claim.

bethbehave (2008-07-10)

Is it me or do I dectect a witch hunt here. I have read all comments and looked at the images of the "hole digging". The turfs in question are clearly yellow with age and the man holding the turf would appear to be lifting the turf not cutting. I then looked up "Mayan Fire Ceremonies" to find out a little about the Mayan people, the Mayan ceremonies and the spiritual leader named here. I cannot judge until all voices have been heard but I shivered with horror at some of the comments made by people who were not even there. mother earth belongs to no one and our Gods will judge where judgement is required.Those who speak the truth and those who do not will have the Karmic law dealt to them. I have been a practising witch for 40 years but I feel as if I have stepped back in time, where my sisters were dragged from their beds and burned on the words of those who feared them or did not understand them.
In love and light

megadread (2008-07-10)

Ashamedtobebritish says the turf was already cut, so what!! its ok to remove turf in the process of recovery then. You fooking idiot.

megadread (2008-07-10)

ashamedtobebritish, stub a cigarette out on your arm and when it heals over rip of the scab and stub another cigarette out on it, that should really help the recovery process, you fool.

Andy B (2008-07-10)

BluecCrow, you're welcome to post photos from the solstice to show what happened.
Go back to the main Callanish page (yellow highlighted link above)
Then 'Submit an image' at the top-right of the page.
Make them about 750x500 pixels. Thanks.

BlueCrow (2008-07-10)

CDO have since received an email from the Mayan visitor who has apologised for any offence caused. He had the good sense and grace to admit he was wrong.. it is a shame that the hosts have since removed their 'fire ritual' page from their site, which clearly advertises fire rituals at castlerigg and avebury. Nowhere do they say they are witches, so I fail to see where the witch hunt is. They are no trying to pass the blame when they are responsible.

The grass isn't yellow, it's a healthy green with longer uncut stems. Regardless, it was witnessed that they dug up the turf, lit a fire and then replaced it. Most people bring a raised appliance when doing fire rituals. Most don't just assume you can turn up to a stone circle, walk in and perform a foreign ritual. Did their deities attend? What of the local deities? Did no one consider that they could be deeply offended? No. I would like to know how much this holistic centre charged for this fire ritual and their workshops. Sounds like the Glastonbury of the north with all the money changing hands for healing.. makes me sick!

I shall upload the pictures to my flickr account and post the link here.

graemefield (2008-07-10)

surely the apology of the Mayan visitor answers all of our concerns. Ms rothwell now needs to admit to some responsibilty, other than the E-mail which i have also received claiming no connection to this act of disrespect, even though it "appears" to be her in the photo. If she was so innocent then maybe she should defend her actions instead of living in holistic ignorance.

BlueCrow (2008-07-10)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bluecrow7/sets/72157606089875436/

If you move the mouse over the picture, some have notes. If you click on the 'more properties' you can see the aperture, focal length, time, date....

BlueCrow (2008-07-10)

"On behalf of Maya Unification, Tata Pedro Cruz and the 50 or so people from Cumbria present at the Mayan Fire ceremony which took place in Castlerigg Stone Circle on June 29th.

Tata Pedro is a Mayan spiritual guide who has just completed a tour of England spreading his message from the Mayan elders of peace and love for this planet. Throughout the world he has been an ambassador of the Maya and in Korea in 2005 he was named as the International “Caminante” for peace in the world. Respect for Mother Earth is the essence of Mayan spirituality and for the Mayans they show this through their sacred fire ceremony.

On his arrival at Castlerigg the people gathered were informed that a short invocation to the four directions would take place in the circle and then the fire ceremony would take place in a local field with permission from the farmer. At this point Tata Pedro was invited by many of the Cumbrian people present to complete the Fire Ceremony within the circle. He was informed that just a few days prior to his visit on the Solstice a similar event with fire ceremony had taken place and that this was permitted. He was shown the place where the turf had already been cut a few days previous and a member of the Cumbrian group re-lifted the turf to make space for the small offering of ceremonial materials carried from Guatemala to honour the ancestral sites in England. At no point was a hole dug in the grass, this had been done prior to his arrival. This was witnessed by all the people present.

The ceremony was done in the circle by the vote of the 50 or so Cumbrians present and at no point did Maya Unification intend to show any disrespect to this sacred site. The small fire was carefully extinguished at the end of the ceremony and the turf was replaced with the utmost care and respect.

Please accept the sincerest apology if offence has been caused in any way. The intention of the ceremony was to share light and peace for the English people and her nation, connecting her with the Mayans through the sacred energy of the land. Tata Pedro was deeply moved by the response of people throughout England and at no point realised that the ceremony would be considered as disrespectful, as for him and the Maya it is the highest offering of respect to connect directly with mother earth through fire ceremony. Today in the Mayan calendar is 3 I’x, the day of the sacred altars, which for the Maya means ancestral places of worship in the hills.

As people who live far away, Maya Unification and Tata Pedro had absolutely no knowledge of previous issues concerning the use of Castlerigg stone circle and other sites and they were guided by the consensus of opinion from the local people present. Tata Pedro has now left England and is continuing his pilgrimage for peace in Germany, Italy and the United States.

We thank you all for bringing these issues to our attention and apologise again for any offence caused."

thecaptain (2008-07-11)

Well, I for one accept Tata Pedro's explanation and apology. Thank you for that.

megadread (2008-07-11)

Yes, respect Tata. Pity the organizers cant find an handful of balls to do the same.

megadread (2008-07-11)

After threatening legal action against the people involved in this unpleasant affair and with the aid of my solicitor i have now received to my satisfaction a full apology which i accept unconditionally. This for me was a private matter and the apology brings to an end any interest i have in this case. After discussion with my legal advisor i refuse to discuss the case any further.
Megadread.

BlueCrow (2008-07-11)

How on earth was it a private matter? Privacy dicates that it's not aired on open forum surely? I posted up the apology offered to CDO for the wrong accusation from LHC that we dug the hole on solstice, why can you not share the apology you have received?

This isn't a pissing contest. It's educating the idiots who think it's ok to damage our ancient monuments and risk us losing the right to free access to them. Does every site need a fence around it before heed is taken? I would like to see that apology, anyone else interested?

megadread (2008-07-11)

Due to several e-mails received today threating my family because of this subject i will no longer be posting on any of the megalithic sites. the details of the messages have been passed to the police.

cumbriandruid (2008-07-11)

crumbs...I must admit, I didn't go so far as to receive threats to my family...I just said they were out of order and I got an apology. What did you do?

megadread (2008-07-11)

The nature of the messages lead me to believe it was nothing whatsoever to do with the LHC. the matter is now with the police. Ive requested my account be deleted and shall have no further input here at the request of the police.

BlueCrow (2008-07-13)

I doubt the police would suggest this. Your reasons to withdraw are yours alone and you do not need to justify this. It is a sad day when such things occur from so-called 'peace and love' groups.

Andy B (2008-07-14)

Please see the apologies and statements here.

BlueCrow (2008-07-14)

This matter appears to have met a conclusion. Those who have needed to have apologised, have and hopefully have learned the error of their ways. It is good to know that there are many out there who will defend these sacred places with a warrior heart.

At the end of the day, there are real people behind cyberspace 'nics' doing real things. Unfortunately, we only seem to have seen half a story with regards to the threats received to megadread. I would like to say that I reacted to question such extreme measures outlined as that is my nature. I was not questioning the integrety of the claimant/claim because I cannot fathom how our species can be do such horrible things to others. I have been told the rest of the story and it's not pretty. I can only hope the police are swift in their investigation and throw the book at those responsible for such vile threats.

As far as I am concerned, this matter is closed. Fingers crossed it won't happen again..... blessings to you and yours.

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Submitted by	thecaptain
Added	Jul 06 2008
Hits	6383
Votes	5