<< News >> Neanderthal Man 'never walked in northern Europe'

Submitted by PaulM on Sunday, 22 August 2004  Page Views: 18537

DiscoveriesCountry: Germany Historians of the Stone Age fear that they will have to rip up their theories about Neanderthal Man after doubt has been cast on the carbon dating of skeletons by a leading German anthropologist reports the Sunday Telegraph.

Work by the flamboyant Professor Reiner Protsch von Zieten showed that Neanderthal Man existed in northern Europe. Calculations on skeletal remains found at Hahnofersand, near Hamburg, stated they were 36,000 years old.

Yet recent research at Oxford University's carbon-dating laboratory has suggested that they date back a mere 7,500 years. By that time, Homo sapiens was already well-established and the Neanderthals were extinct.

Chris Stringer, a Stone Age specialist and head of human origins at London's Natural History Museum, said: "What was considered a major piece of evidence showing that the Neanderthals once lived in northern Europe has fallen by the wayside. We are having to rewrite prehistory."

But Prof von Zieten, 65, the descendant of a famous 18th-century Prussian general, rejected the evidence from Oxford University last week.

"The new data from Oxford is all wrong," he told Germany's Der Spiegel. He said that the university's scientists had failed to remove shellac preservative from the specimens. As a result, the remains appeared to be much younger.

"Unfortunately, archaeologists and most anthropologists do not study physics or chemistry and therefore they cannot make judgments on carbon dating," he said. "Wrong measurements are made in all laboratories."

Prof von Zieten, who has a penchant for large Havana cigars and Porsche cars, has been considered an expert in carbon-dating techniques since the 1970s. He has tested hundreds of prehistoric bone finds from Europe and Africa over the past 30 years.

Now, however, important remains that Oxford scientists no longer believe are prehistoric include the female "Bischof-Speyer" skeleton, found near the south-west German town of Speyer with unusually good teeth. Their evidence suggests that she is 3,300 years old, not 21,300.

Another apparent misdating involved an allegedly prehistoric skull discovered near Paderborn in 1976 and considered the oldest human remain ever found in the region. Prof von Zieten dated the skull at 27,400 years old. The latest research, however, indicates that it belonged to an elderly man who died around 1750.

Germany's Herne anthropological museum, which owns the Paderborn skull, was so disturbed by the findings that it did its own tests. "We had the skull cut open and it still smelt," the museum's director, Barbara Ruschoff-Thale, said last week. "We are naturally very disappointed."

Concern about Prof von Zieten's carbon-dating estimates arose last year following a routine investigation of German prehistoric remains by the German and British anthropologists Thomas Terberger and Martin Street.

"We had decided to subject many of these finds to modern techniques to check their authenticity so we sent them to Oxford for testing," Mr Street told The Sunday Telegraph. "It was a routine examination and in no way an attempt to discredit Prof von Zieten."

In their report, though, both anthropologists described this as a "dating disaster".

The scandal engulfing Prof von Zieten goes further. Police are investigating allegations that he tried to sell 280 chimpanzee skulls from his university to buyers in America for $70,000 (£38,000).

Prof von Zieten denies the claims, saying that he legitimately obtained the skulls from a Heidelberg ethnologist in 1975. Frankfurt university last month suspended the professor from his post in the anthropology department while it runs its own inquiry.

Source: The Sunday Telegraph 22 August 2004

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"Neanderthal Man 'never walked in northern Europe'" | Login/Create an Account | 13 News and Comments
  
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Re: Neanderthal Man 'never walked in northern Europe' by Anonymous on Monday, 26 August 2013
Interesting thihg isthat alot of people like young earth creationists would support the idea that Neanderthals were in fact decended from the Caanitesan myself included perhaps arround 2200 BC Ever read Collin Wilsons book Atlantis and the Lost Kingdom of the Neanderthals? I reccomend thi s be investigated. John Hext-Fremlin http://www.johnhextfremlin.com
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Re: Neanderthal Man 'never walked in northern Europe' by Anonymous on Friday, 08 July 2011
I knew Reiner Protsch in the late sixties and early seventies at UCLA, where he was a research assistant in the Geology Department's dating laboratory. He always struck me as honest, hardworking, and well-informed. That doesn't mean he was always right. But to go from that to the picture being painted of him in this and other similar articles is a mighty big stretch. He was a very liberal guy, anything but a nazi. Knowing that the English have long been jealous of the Germans, I can't help but wonder if that has played at least a small part in the virtual destruction of Protsch's career and credibility by the people at Oxford and those who cooperated with them. It is clear that professional jealousy and political animus are involved at some level. Although not an anthropologist or an archaeologist, I will continue to believe that if Protsch thinks Neanderthals were extant with modern humans in some way and in some place, chances are that he may be correct.
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Re: Neanderthal Man 'never walked in northern Europe' by Anonymous on Monday, 28 March 2011
I would like to comment about a program on public telivision about early man. I would like to say first that the idea that neanderthal man and modern man are not one of the same is a hoax the scientists on the public broadcasting admited it to be a hoax. how do I know this. listen carefully no I did not misunderstand anything on the program please. those in the scientistic community and again I did not misunderstand what they were saying. modern humans supposedly migrated from central africa fifty thousand years ago to australia yes I said australia. but they could not reach europe or what is now the middle east because get ready their was a desert between central africa and europe and the middle east. now they would have us believe that their were no coastlines on the western part of africa or the easter parts of africa their were no rivers leading into the mediterranean ocean from central africa that early humans could have followed into europe or into the middle east total complete nonsense. whats even more outrageous is the idea that moderns humans could not find their away around a desert but they could find their way half way across the world to australia across oceans thousands and thousands of miles but they could not find a way around a desert a desert. the reason those in the scientistic community concocted such a absurd theory is simply this. if they admited modern humans migrated from africa to europe fifty thousand years ago. that would mean that neanderthal man and modern man coexist together for twenty thousand years. thirty thousand years ago thats when the scientisic community says neanderthal man disappeared well if they coexisted for twenty thousand years that would prove that they could not remain separate species if they were together for twenty thousand years they would have merged together as one no doubt.
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    Re: Neanderthal Man 'never walked in northern Europe' by bat400 on Wednesday, 30 March 2011
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    Your posting might carry more weight if your comments were easier to follow.
    *Reference the television program containing the "hoax", so others have a chance to see it themselves and better understand your thoughts about it.
    * Use paragraphs to organize your discussion.
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Re: Neanderthal Man 'never walked in northern Europe' by Anonymous on Monday, 27 April 2009
I own a large collection of flint and chert neanderthal tools from Denmark. Pretty conclusive proof I think . . .
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    Re: Neanderthal Man 'never walked in northern Europe' by Anonymous on Friday, 25 May 2012
    I totally agree on this! (also huge Danish flint collection)
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Re: Neanderthal Man 'never walked in northern Europe' by davidmorgan on Monday, 27 April 2009
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You're one of those young earth creationists, aren't you? You're so wrong.
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Re: Neanderthal Man 'never walked in northern Europe' by Anonymous on Sunday, 26 April 2009
Contrary to the belief that Neanderthal was never in Northern Scotland ; I have proof that they built the Village of Skara Brae. For further details of this please visit my website at http://www.johnhextfremlin.com
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Re: Neanderthal Man 'never walked in northern Europe' by Anonymous on Tuesday, 02 October 2007
It is not odd at all when Neanderthals are and should be treated as normal human beings that recent remains have been found instead of accepting the arrogent evolutionary theory that they are millions of years old but ownly lived a few thousand years ago and could still be alive to-day. JohnHXF
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Re: Neanderthal Man 'never walked in northern Europe' by Anonymous on Saturday, 11 August 2007
It strikes me that Von Zeiten colaberated with the Nazis and the faking of Human Skulls maskerading as Neanderthals. If the Neanderthal skull that was found in Germany dated as recently as 1300 BC then this would go a long way in coreralting Prof Gunnar Heinsohn's dating of Neanderthals in Europe at 1500 BC. Another interesting point is Bill Cooper's After the Flood with Partholan's arrival in Ireland dated annomundi 2520 or 1484 BC while the Neanderthals were in Britain arriving at the same time which on my time line is am 1969 or 2035 BC. JohnHXF ([email protected])
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Re: Neanderthal Man 'never walked in northern Europe' by Anonymous on Sunday, 27 February 2005
maybe we need to lean on another authority for our understanding of realities around us. I suggest Bible ...
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Re: Neanderthal Man 'never walked in northern Europe' by Thorgrim on Sunday, 22 August 2004
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How very odd! I don't understand this at all. Are they saying that modern humans with Neanderthal like features were alive 3-7000 years ago or that Neanderthals were alive as recently as 1750 or that there were no such creatures as Neanderthals? Funny thing is that when the first Neanderthal remains were discovered they were assumed to be the remains of a lost Napoleonic soldier. This does need sorting out.
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    Re: Neanderthal Man 'never walked in northern Europe' by Anonymous on Saturday, 11 August 2007
    What about Neanderthals in chainmale armour. If so this would be very recent and would prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Neanderthals did not become extinct but are us maybe decended from the Cainanites which is an interesting thought. JohnHXF ([email protected])
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