Comment Post

Re: Forget Cornwall, King Arthur ruled from Shropshire by VirtHist on Monday, 06 June 2005

Hi Tim,

As you know I used to be convinced about Phillips and Keatman's arguments for Owain as the figure behind Arthur, but not anymore. Since becoming a colleague with Steve Blake of the Centre for Arthurian and Related Studies I have learnt a great deal more about the period and the historical figures of the time and become more convinced with the arguments put forward in his books, 'Keys to Avalon' and 'Pendragon'. There are many question to be asked about Phillips and Keatman’s finding...

Why, unlike any other ruler, did Owain become known by his 'nickname' 'The Bear' - or 'Artus', as they suggest? This in itself would be wrong, as in Brythonic this would be 'yr art' and in Latin 'Arturius'. Why, when the Welsh texts - the source of it all - only calls Arthur a 'dux belorum' - 'leader of battles' - are they looking for a king? Arthur was made a king by Geoffrey of Monmouth for political or literary reasons and even his contemporary, William of Malmsbury, critised Geoffrey for what he'd turned Wales' hero in to. Why look for a sword in the stone site when this was a later Romance addition along with Camelot? Why say Whittington could be the Grail site when there is no tradition of it there, unlike sites such as Castell Dinas Bran and Valle Crucis Abbey. (Whittington has a stronger case for being Llys Pengwern). Most importantly, why do they say Owain was a king of both Gwynedd and Powys as if this is fact; he was a king of Gwynedd and Rhôs - a sub-kingdom of Gwynedd? The connection that says Gwynedd also ruled Powys at the time is the grave of 'Cunorix' found at Wroxeter. This has been linked with Cunedda of Gwynedd. That is indeed plausible but not proven and if he was buried in Powys then it's possible that Owain was, but why plump for the Berth as 'the churches of Bassa' when there have been no findings beyond the 4th Century there? (Whilst I have always wished my local village of Baschurch to be ‘the churches of Bassa’ I’m not so convinced now). If Cunorix was buried at Wroxeter, there'd be more chance of Owain being buried there too. Also, if he was a king of Rhôs he would most likely to have been buried in 'that' region. I now think it more likely that Basingwerk was the site for 'the churches of bassa'. (Notice it's plural, so there was more than one church). The fact that a Norman abbey was built on the site gives it even more validity.

I was interested to see Graham's map of Britain for 500AD at his website...

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/yvan.cartwright/Trail/2_Historical_Arthur.htm

It's a little different from any other I've seen...

http://www.earlybritishkingdoms.com/maps/500_kingdoms.html

...and makes Powys out to be the dominant kingdom when it was Gwynedd that may have been the ruler of Powys.

If the dating of the origins of the epic poem Y Gododdin to the 6th Century are correct, then this is the first mention of Arthur in a somewhat throw-away reference. He's called 'Arthur' and not Artus or Arturius. This has caused confusion because it's etymology doesn't seem to be purely Brythonic. No one can be sure how it came about. It may not be 'art-hur' but 'ar-thur' or 'arth-ur'. Either way it causes problems.

Everyone has looked for a candidate for Arthur because Gildas doesn’t mention him and Geoffrey of Monmouth made him a king. Since in the Welsh tradition Arthur was never said to be a king there’s no reason why Gildas should mention him.

This, of course, doesn't mean that the historical Arthur didn't have anything to do with Shropshire. There is a great chance he did. After all, it was part of Wales/Cymru/Britannia at the time. If Gwynedd encompassed Powys then this was his domain and Wroxeter a part of his world but I don’t think it was any Camelot. If Camelot has any bases there are other sites with far better credentials, such as Monmouth. If Arthur was a battle leader he would have his own small court, or llys, and not a large administrative centre although he would have to have looked after in the absence of his king. As for the Berth, unless future archaeology shows signs of habitation for the 6th Century, it’s definitely out as his resting place no matter who he was. (I’m working on the latter).

I would strongly suggest that anyone interested in the subject read Graham’s book, but swiftly follow it by Steve’s and come to a conclusion then.

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