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The Megalithic Portal and Megalith Map : Index >>
General Forum >> Dolmens or Cromlechs
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Dolmens or Cromlechs |
Soul
Joined:
17-08-2005
Messages: 4
from Cardiff. Uk
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|  Posted 17-08-2005 at 17:46
I was brought up in the Welsh language and always knew burial grounds as 'Cromlechs'. When I moved away I noted they were called 'Dolmens' (which in Welsh means much the same thing) so are the two words transposable? Or strictly speaking, are they two different things?
Also, sort on the same theme - when I visit sights I get urrrm 'shown' things from the past, but can't find any written sources to confirm or explain what I was 'shown'. Things such as old ceremonies, traditions, maybe, from the far past when the Dolmen, etc was created or finished. Can anyone point me in the right direction please?
Many thanks x
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Anonymous
User not Registered | Posted 02-09-2005 at 10:32
I now what you mean about being "shown" erhem...ancient ceremonies.
Let's face it though; we don't know the details of what went on at such sites.
Also bear in mind that many sites were used over periods of several thousand years for a variety of purposes and the ceremonies that may have been performed there were equally as open to change and evolution.
Most if not all neo-pagan ceremonies as we know them today have origins that are less than fifty years old and are largely thanks to people like Alexander and Gardner. All very interesting no doubt but hardly to be confused as authentic.
My favourite source for information on the little that we do know of pre-christian spiritual practices and their residual modern counterparts is still JG Frazers "The Golden Bough" which you might find interesting if you haven't already read it.
As for recreating ancient ceremonies though; I hardly see how we can as we quite simply know practically nothing about them.
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Anonymous
User not Registered |  Posted 02-09-2005 at 13:14
Lol It never crossed my mind to recreate anything. Don't remember mentioning that hmmm. Also appreciate the history of these places - I ain't one of those swinging, hippy individuals with a rose-tinted outlook lolol. What is 'seen' is only discussed with close friends. I'm not aiming to be put into a restraint-jacket just yet lolol.
I'm looking for practical knowledge to help make sense of what gets shown. Suppose it's the profession I'm in - the Sciences, so always want empirical proof lol. I did think that some specialist people would have an idea of past ways of living, given any artifacts discovered at the site, that would provide clues.
Personally I would prefer to visit these places, enjoy and appreciate interesting feats of architecture without experiencing the 'baggage' that goes with it (just wanted to get that straight!). I'm nosy - I'm just simply curious at things that are felt or seen around these places.
One example was what looked like a woman grieving at the entrance of a dolmen. She was desperately sad - not an emotion you choose to feel on a valuable day off work! In her hands she was holding beads much like a rosary I suppose. And yes, I do understand 'prayer beads' to an extent lol. It surprised me she was using something which seems to be relatively modern.
Ty for suggestion of author - no, I haven't read it, yet. And thank you for your reply.
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AngieLake
Joined:
12-03-2004
Messages: 550
from Newton Abbot, Devon
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|  Posted 03-09-2005 at 22:30
On 2005-08-17 17:46, Soul wrote:
.......
Also, sort on the same theme - when I visit sights I get urrrm 'shown' things from the past, but can't find any written sources to confirm or explain what I was 'shown'. Things such as old ceremonies, traditions, maybe, from the far past when the Dolmen, etc was created or finished. Can anyone point me in the right direction please?
Hi 'Soul'
I'm currently reading an interesting library book on that subject. It's called 'Rites of the Gods', a 1981 publication [J. M. Dent & Sons Ltd] written by respected archaeologist Aubrey Burl, author of many excellent books on the subject of stone circles, rows, etc. He describes many sites, including evidence of burial practices, and shares his own theories about possible ceremonies.
I'm particularly interested because I've dowsed many such sites for early ritual movement, recording most plans on paper, and would like to be able to link my patterns to concrete evidence. (Difficult!) I don't 'see' things like you do though.
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Soul
Joined:
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from Cardiff. Uk
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| Posted 04-09-2005 at 10:52
(((Hugs))) Thank you. I regretted being terse in my last reply. I didn't want to offend anyone but get so frustrated when something seems so real yet cannot be accounted for by hard evidence. That book sounds like just what I'm looking for.
My perspective of things isn't from any religious dogma but appreciate that those of ancient cultures lived with more of what we'd describe today as a 'phyics' approach. The sites I've been to sure feel different. Not because of the stones, but the area seems to be premeated with something. Energy lines maybe, but I don't know. Just know if you stand by a stone all the senses become much more acute.
I've not tried dowsing but do charge my crystals in such places. But then, suppose that the energy link again. Quartz is used even on space shuttles nowadays as a form of battery, yet it seems strange that 'scientists' accept this fact yet haven't undertaken further reasearch to find out more.
Thank you again Angie. I'll certainly look up that book
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Anonymous
User not Registered | Posted 05-09-2005 at 14:16
I read Rites of the Gods about five years ago. it's interesting reading but please remember that any claims that we really know what ceremonies and rituals were performed two, three or four thousand years ago are porky pies. We have educated conjecture and that's all. That ecucated conjecture probably adds up to less than 1% known fact.
If you're looking for genuine facts then you'll probably be looking for a long time.
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AngieLake
Joined:
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Messages: 550
from Newton Abbot, Devon
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| Posted 05-09-2005 at 16:50
[quote]
On 2005-09-05 14:16, Anonymous wrote:
I read Rites of the Gods about five years ago. it's interesting reading but please remember that any claims that we really know what ceremonies and rituals were performed two, three or four thousand years ago are porky pies. We have educated conjecture and that's all. That ecucated conjecture probably adds up to less than 1% known fact.
If you're looking for genuine facts then you'll probably be looking for a long time.
Hello 'Anonymous'
In a way I agree, that is why I said that it would be 'difficult' to find any concrete evidence to support my dowsing findings. However, I wouldn't be quite so dismissive of this as you (especially of Aubrey Burl's excellent work, as he has much personal archaeological evidence from artefacts found at the sites).
In my own case:
When dowsing, I just clear my mind, concentrate, and 'ask' to be shown the earliest and most important ritual movement at each ancient site, then follow the directions in which my angle rods point, moving around the circle/forecourt/row/, whatever, and recording as I go. [JackME has watched me do this, and some of my results fitted in with his findings at Swinside, which was interesting.]
It's good to keep an open mind about this. Obviously I can't say 'This IS a ritual movement', but I can say that 'This is what I have been shown to be a ritual movement.' I feel that I am picking up a 'memory' of intense and repeated movement that has somehow become trapped in time.
(If you'd told me ten years ago that I would be saying that, I would have thought one of us was 'barking', but until you dowse for a few years, you don't realise how persuasive the results can be. Also, I think women tend to be more intuitive than men.)
If there is ever a breakthrough with psychic research or magnetic anomalies (I'd say 'quantum physics', but am too much of a dunce in science to know if I am using the correct terms), then I could have some valuable results. Already various fascinating similarites are cropping up.
To me, trying to find out what people DID in these places is more interesting than finding if the monument stands on an energy line or underground stream, which is what most dowsers ask for.
I recently checked out a long unmarked processional route to a circle in Wales, something fairly simple, but interesting. Sure enough, I found myself travelling between pairs of stones at intervals. Not 'concrete' proof, but......
In another area of Wales, not far from there, I found a zig-zag route between a circle and the top of the valley that used natural features like large rocks, and even a spring, on its route for little 'ceremonies'. If I'd been making it up, why would I have moved in a zig-zag? And a present-day, or normal walker would not have made such regular angular movements, either.
I know it sounds strange, but it happened, and I have a witness on this site.
Over to you!
Angie
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Soul
Joined:
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from Cardiff. Uk
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| Posted 05-09-2005 at 19:44
Lol In my case I'm not looking for proof, nor for proving anything. Suppose I'll revert back to the tried and tested method.... not that I could come back and prove it as factual of course lol 
Interesting what you mentioned Angie about quantum physics. Several of my colleagues work in that field and forward a mean arguement about many things including 'stored energy' around ancient sites lol. And believe me, they're definitely not into any 'hocus pocus' but sure of heck can run rings around the sceptics. The parting shot is usually: define the difference between 'known' physics and metaphysics. One's been proven; the other hasn't, simply because we haven't as yet developed appropriate technologically to prove the facts. Already, in recent years Time has been proven to not be a constant. Next step is to understand how 'time energy' actually works.
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sem
Joined:
12-11-2003
Messages: 1704
from Bridgend,S.Wales
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| Posted 05-09-2005 at 23:49
Hi Soul
I have to back Angie on this one. I "discovered" the last route she mentions and asked her to dowse it. When I walked it I walked in straight lines,whereas when Angie dowsed she zig-zagged across my path but ended in the same place.
Angie spent the weekend with us, and being a little sceptical of dowsing kept her in the dark of this route. However the following were noticed by me during this session:-
1 I pointed Angie only to where I started. I have walked this route many times and always finish where she did.
2 On a number of occassions Angie walked (very closely) past stones I thought might be important but were not in her "remitt." My thought was they are signposts not guides.
3 The stones I knew were important always demanded more of her attention.
Soul, it's not that scientific but it seems to work.
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Soul
Joined:
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from Cardiff. Uk
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| Posted 06-09-2005 at 08:14
I'm in total agreement with what Angie said hun. I must have worded it badly :s I was pointing out that dowsing, etc DOES have a scientific basis. It's just not proven yet. I was brought up in an environment that daily used 'metaphysical' stuff such as dowsing without batting an eyelid. It wasn't superstition, just how to maximise the land and stock, working around the things we couldn't see physically such as energy lines.
Now I work amongst some of the most qualified people in science. Lol I'm just waiting for the two ends of the spectrum to meet to become one, so society won't roll their eyes when someone pulls out a pendulum. I've been known to use one myself but not outside
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