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Temporary stone circles? |
Anonymous
User not Registered |  Posted 19-04-2005 at 11:54
Ynys Hir stone circle, Mynydd Eppynt, Powys
When excavated it was found that many stones didn't have sockets or packing stones, and some had fallen before peat growth began to take place and bury them and that when first placed some only had holes that went just beneath the original turf.
Not too distant are two large monoliths, both fallen.
Any thoughts as to why they made such a shoddy job?
The circle itself is situated very close to two old tracks: E to W and a longer N to S.
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templar
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| Posted 19-04-2005 at 16:34
It was probably built by the ancient equivalent of a modern software project.
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templar
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| Posted 19-04-2005 at 16:42
It was probably built by the ancient equivalent of a modern software project or a new Scottish/Welsh parliament building.
Remember, those who came before us probably had the same pressures we have today; limited budgets, not enough staff, management who appear incompetent, bad plans, unforseen problems etc etc.
The original plan for Stonehenge II was probably diluted somewhat once the scale of what they were attempting became obvious. Stonehenge probably went spectacularly over budget but, as a local ruler was dependent on its completion, the taxes went up and the workers kept working.
Pure speculation, but I feel it has the ring of truth. We too often assume that our ancestors were blessed with a fundamentally different way of life, whereas I'm willing to bet that they were mostly just muddling through life like us.
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megawoogi
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| Posted 20-04-2005 at 13:55
...chortle!
And maybe there were regular fireside discussions, with hysterical tales of the '[megalithic] Builders From Hell'!
Seriously tho, temporary stone circles are an interesting idea. However, if we assume that stone / timber circles were meeting places, to which people came from near (small circles acting like parish churches?) and far (larger ones being the equivalent of cathedrals?) - which is a reasonably safe bet, given the amount of communal effort that went into building them - then temporary circles would indicate that it was the activity that took place within / around the circle that was important NOT the circle itelf. More elaborate circles were simply being embelished as time went on and the place of meeting became entrenced. Therefore all theories of 'astral alignments' etc - which assume that the CIRCLE is important and built with more attention to detail than is readilly apparent - are bunkum. Discuss!
[ This message was edited by: megawoogi on 2005-04-20 14:46 ]
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slumpy
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| Posted 23-04-2005 at 13:28
Most amusing, but possibly they had no idea that the stones would stand only a few hundred years after they themselves had passed on. Maybe they assumed that mystical powers linking the stone to the Earth would prevent toppling ?
I still keep seeing Yosser Hughes saying [in ye Olde Englishe] "Ay - Gissa Jobbe - I can do dat !!" 
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sem
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| Posted 24-04-2005 at 23:12
I attended a conference last year where it was suggested that stones were put up for social reasons. ie come on boys I'll supply the beer and the feast and we'll add a few stones to that circle/line/funny arrangement over there. Having walked nearly every weekend for the past 10 months in the Brecon Beacons I rather like this idea.
In the area of Fan Brycheiniog there are seven stone circles,the stones of which are without exception, less than 2m in height,90% are less than 1m. This appears to me more artistic/social than an attempt to lay out astronomical alignments.
Though I may be wrong.
SEM
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Anonymous
User not Registered | Posted 25-04-2005 at 09:41
Sem,
First Sunday in August we must meet up at Lake Llyn y Fan Fawr to see the water nymph.
Apparently years ago it was a regular (and popular) trip up there. Including the infirm in carriages, to go up and see her on the one day a year she emerged (usually to brush her hair in her reflection).
If you bring a boat we can dredge the lake as it's only 18m deep.
Elderford
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Rev
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| Posted 26-04-2005 at 16:57
Isn’t it speculated that the stones of Arbor Low were not secured in the ground, which explains their current prone state? We may look at it as temporary or a 'rush job' but if a stone will stand up on it's own, why bother digging a pit? If they fall over in the time the site is in use, just re-erect it, any excuse for a 'Ritual' (or it's modern equivalent, a p**s up!)
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sem
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| Posted 26-04-2005 at 20:51
Anon
Where did you read this legend referring to L Fawr? I came across it in "The Sacred & Secret Beacons" by BS Griffiths. On July 31,2004 (Sat) I walked here and,as in the legend, the waters boiled heralding the approach of the Lady of the Lake. This was of course an optical and aural illusion,but for a couple of seconds it fooled me.
Since then every version I have read (including the Physicians of Myddfai,the supposed original),place this at Llyn y Fan FACH. Has the location been altered by local custom, as taking gambos etc to L Fawr would be nigh on impossible.
Only 18m deep eh? Maybe with a gambo I could get my diving equipment up there...care to help?
Sem
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Anonymous
User not Registered | Posted 27-04-2005 at 11:34
Yes it was from Sacred Beacons.
A national park friend informed me both Black Mountain lakes are around 18m deep and Llangorse Lake even less. I would love to assist with the diving, but you'll have to carry your SCUBA gear up from Cerrig Duon.
RE: Arbor Low
As far as I am aware when a geo-physical study was done, the bedrock is very close to the surface, which explains why they were set so shallow.
Elderford
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Rev
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| Posted 27-04-2005 at 17:04
RE: RE: Arbor Low
As far as I am aware when a geo-physical study was done, the bedrock is very close to the surface, which explains why they were set so shallow.
........and yet people managed to dig a ruddy great big ditch and build a bank out of the same bedrock. 
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Anonymous
User not Registered | Posted 28-04-2005 at 11:00
Don't start me off on this one Rev.
The report is on-line somewhere (Leicester University Archaeology Dept).
One of the two Orkney rings has a (partial?) ditch cut into bedrock and the stones are standing.
Which prompts the question that in that (and every?) instance the ditch may well have been more important than the bank raised from its spoil.
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