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Anonymous
User not Registered |  Posted 12-02-2005 at 08:35
i have spent many years of my life trying to connect with the message that these sites hold but i always find the rush and insane pace of the modern world overpowering and distracting,does anyone with REAL experience have any helpfull thoughts on this?? p.s. i am registered but for some reasone i keep showing up as anonymous,my user name is thuban! 
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Anonymous
User not Registered | Posted 13-02-2005 at 10:41
Go on your own in the morning.
Use meditation breathing excerises.
Touch the stones.
webmaster
chestertourist.com
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megawoogi
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from Inverness
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|  Posted 14-02-2005 at 16:18
This may not be very popular - but my immediate reaction is ‘away and hug a tree’. These sites are now archaeological monuments, built by past societies for reasons we may never understand. Next time you are meditating at a stone circle, ‘touching the stones’, think about the possibility that hundreds of lives could have been sacrificed at the site – and that the original builders may have lived in fear of the site and the activities (and their meanings) that took place there.
The ‘message’ that such sites hold is of all things to all men. I have no problems with pagans misappropriating them for modern rituals, or theoretical archaeologists ‘reading phenomenology’ into them – just as long as we remember that our thoughts and feelings towards them will always be ‘modern’.
What is not in doubt is that their builders did not intend to ‘leave a message’ for 21st century visitors.
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howar
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from Orkney
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| Posted 14-02-2005 at 22:53
Apparently there is a 'new' opinion that the henges were built to mark out areas of negativity from their surroundings. Not entirely true, but New Agers do forget that where the limin with 'other realms' occurs all isn't always sweetness and light (Michael Howard "Return to Avalon" on Glastonbury, in the present quarter's "The Cauldron" paper journal).
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Anonymous
User not Registered | Posted 15-02-2005 at 08:42
thanks for your interesting comments,it gives me a lot to think about,if some of these places where used as places of sacrifice and terror,then why do i feel an inner peace when in the precence of some of these stones,especialy men an tol?
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templar
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from Cardiff
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| Posted 15-02-2005 at 08:51
Because most of life is what you make of it.
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wayland
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from Lancashire
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| Posted 16-02-2005 at 13:45
I think ancient sites have a lot to do with expectations.
Some people go to a site expecting to find inner peace which creates the right conditions to find it.
Others go looking for mystery and find that too.
Personally I usually go looking for good pictures and sometimes I'm lucky. 
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JimChampion
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from Southampton
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| Posted 19-02-2005 at 23:02
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On 2005-02-16 13:45, wayland wrote:
I think ancient sites have a lot to do with expectations.
Some people go to a site expecting to find inner peace which creates the right conditions to find it.
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Visited the Rollright Stones (Oxfordshire) this week. It was suggested to me before the visit that the Kings Men circle had dark (satanic) connections. So when I was there, even though it was a bright sunny morning, the place seemed a bit dark and 'creepy'. Maybe its that its surrounded by dark leafless trees this time of year. I don't know. But I agree with the expectations comment: If I'd been told that the place had positive connections then maybe I would have experienced it more positively. On the whole enjoyed it, and got some good pics. Shame about the yellow paint.
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sem
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from Bridgend,S.Wales
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| Posted 19-02-2005 at 23:52
Jim,forget the satanic crap.Sacred places are what you make of them.
Keep looking
SEM
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JimChampion
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from Southampton
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| Posted 20-02-2005 at 21:32
Sorry about the gibberish above, shouldn't post so late in the day. I categorise myself as a non-mystic atheist, but that doesn't mean I'm not susceptible to suggestion. The main thing I get from pre-historic sites is the connection with things that are very very old, from a time when the human race was tiny compared to today, but still making a lasting mark on the planet. Thats why I like the long barrows so much. They are just ridiculously old. You can look at it and think that its been there for many millenia and its still essentially the same thing, even though so much else is different.
I am most impressed by the fact that the long barrows were more ancient to the Roman invaders than the Romans are to us now (if you see what I mean).
[ This message was edited by: JimChampion on 2005-02-20 21:37 ]
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Thorgrim
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| Posted 20-02-2005 at 22:36
Very much in agreement with you Jim - especially about long barrows. The whole subject of atmosphere - what's there and what we bring to a site and our expectations is fascinating and incredibly complex. I have no religious beliefs, but I am extremly sensitive to some feelings beyond "atmosphere" and what, for want of a better term, I call "spiritual". Can you be spiritual without believing in spirits, gods and assorted mumbo jumbo? Solitude and silence are such luxuries in the crowded south-east that an escape to wilder places brings that certain something without much seeking. I loathe crowds at ancient sites and never go to places like Stonehenge, Avebury and West Kennett now. So on balance, I don't really believe that the places themselves have any special inbuilt magic or spirituality - its more about what we have within us and what we allow to open up when the conditions are right - for me its solitude, antiquity and quality of light - early morning, dusk, mist, sunshine after a storm...
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AngieLake
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from Newton Abbot, Devon
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|  Posted 21-02-2005 at 01:10
I agree with Jim and Thorgrim.
I'm lucky that Dartmoor is 'on my doorstep', so to speak, but don't really go up there often enough. (Typical!)
Today was bright and sunny with a bitterly cold northerly wind and, taking my camera, I had a very invigorating 'spur-of-the-moment' road walk from a carpark near Sharp Tor to Sherwell Barrow and back. There were hardly any other people around, though several cars passed me.
At about 4pm, on the way back, I climbed to the summit of Yar Tor and stood alone inside the round ruined hut/cairn with its spiral entrance passage and surveyed the beautiful rugged country around me. Although nearby Corndon Tor was higher, this place overlooked everything else for miles around and seemed to be level with many far-distant peaks. On its shoulders, strangely piled chunks of granite resembled sphinx-like monuments. The striking and aptly-named Sharp Tor nestled in the valley below. In an even deeper valley to the west, daytrippers were beginning to leave Dartmeet, where the gushing East Dart converges with the West Dart river. The sun's sleepy dipping towards its rest had cast shadows over that cleft in the hills, and I knew it would be very cold there. Silly people! - Why weren't they up here, where everything was bright and beautiful? - only - then it wouldn't be, as it was the very profound solitude that allowed the spirit to soar, soaking up every last ounce of sensation from the surroundings.
I knew that the builders of this eyrie had also stood there, on that very same spot, admiring exactly the same view (obviously without the tarmac, metal and brick additions of modern man.)
I could see the waters of the English Channel off Teignmouth sparkling on the eastern horizon and wondered if those ancient people had come from some distant country. Maybe they looked longingly towards that sea, remembering their own roots, while lording it over this wild land? Maybe they often stood on the natural, randomly-placed flat slabs of granite that surrounded the summit, lifting their arms in praise to their own gods? (Maybe they even made sacrifices on them?)
I turned around, looking - almost with new eyes - at each compass direction in turn, my cheeks whipped by the bitter wind but feeling a surge of joy - a thankfulness for being alive and being allowed to take in all this wild and peaceful beauty. Then I happily made my way back to the car.
We all need this renewal of spirits from time to time. It's free, and I'm sure it would do everyone more good than any amount of medicine.
(Footnote to original question: I went with an open mind, not knowing anything of the summit of Yar Tor's reputation, or history, though I had been there in the past. However, I did find a place with a very nasty atmosphere in Cornwall - Creeg Tol, and I had never even heard of it before. It's near Boscawen Un, if you want to check it out.)
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TimPrevett
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from Cheshire / Manchester
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| Posted 21-02-2005 at 07:58
Thuban, I've checked the members list, and where your name should be, it isn't, so somehow your registration hasn't happened.
Maybe try again?
Cheers
Tim
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wayland
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from Lancashire
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| Posted 22-02-2005 at 16:03
Just spent another couple of hours at the Carles getting frozen while waiting for the light which never quite came.
I could not help but be struck by the normal visitors to the site.
It would seem that the average visit involves parking as near the gate as possible and walking to the circle (30 seconds), walking around about half of the circle (45 seconds), posing for a picture in front of some stones with the car in the background (20 seconds) and the walking back to the car (another 30 seconds)
This pattern was repeated at least 10 times while I was there, some also cast a glance in my direction possibly wondering what the bloke with a tripod was waiting for.
The very fact that we are interested enough about these sites to be talking about them on a site like this surely means we have found more atmosphere surrounding them than those "normal" visitors ever will.
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Thorgrim
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| Posted 22-02-2005 at 16:31
Absolutely, Wayland! I am so glad that most prehistoric sites are far from roads and car parks although that is tough on the genuinly disabled. I often observe people who visit my local forest at Hatfield. They drive through in their 4-wheel drive gas guzzling monsters full of fat kids. They drive to the lake, go to the cafe, fill the kids up with chips, throw stones at the geese and then drive home again. They have barely walked 20 paces and if its raining, only Dad does as the kids tell him and ventures as far as the cafe. In summer its a picnic from the car boot - no walk at all!
Darwinian evolution tells me that tomorrow's generation will have no legs, big texting thumbs, crossed eyes and no brains.
By Jove - I really am turning into a grumpy old man!
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wayland
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from Lancashire
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| Posted 22-02-2005 at 16:46
Apparently there is now a "syndrome" that makes us that way !
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LizH
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from Northampton
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| Posted 22-02-2005 at 19:38
But there are advantages to that. While I am also frustrated with the terribly short time other people spend there it does often mean, even on the more popular sites, that I get to see the site alone (or with the sensible people I came with who also want to look). If I wait long enough, I can have the place to myself. Also some of them *maybe* (let's give some benefit of the doubt) people who have been there many times before but still love the place and can't bear to go past without stopping and looking even if they've only got a few minutes - I have done this myself at some places, including, sorry for those who felt my visit too short - Castlerigg. And on Orkney I went to visit Steness 'for the last time' almost up to the moment I got on the boat - visits getting shorter and shorter.
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wayland
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from Lancashire
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| Posted 22-02-2005 at 20:23
Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm quite happy that most people do not stay too long.
I've had the opposite problem too of missing the light at sites while a stone hugger lingers for ages right in the middle of my picture.
my comment harks back to my earlier one that we get out of a site what we take to it, and to some extent what we put into it.
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JimChampion
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from Southampton
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| Posted 22-02-2005 at 20:44
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I've had the opposite problem too of missing the light at sites while a stone hugger lingers for ages right in the middle of my picture.
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Why not photograph the stone huggers?
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wayland
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from Lancashire
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| Posted 22-02-2005 at 23:22
Some of those stone huggers are not a pretty sight.
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