| Author | Stonehenge Y and Z holes – evidence of a farming calendar ? |
Dave1982
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|  Posted 26-11-2014 at 20:29
Stonehenge Y and Z holes – evidence of a farming calendar ?
The Y and Z holes consist of two arcs that encircle the Sarsen stone structure. The Eastern facing arc follows the progression of the sunrises.
The centre of radius of the Eastern facing arc (holes Y1 to Y7 and Z1 to Z7) indicates an awareness of the point necessary for the observation of the progressions of the sunrises. This point gives a six interval progression for a twelve interval annual cycle, which would give an effective farming calendar. Thus this centre of radius seems to be of some importance.
However if the Eastern facing holes had continued on this radius they would have coincided with the outer Sarsen stones - but the remaining holes are centred on the Sarsen ring centre hence giving a double arc structure symmetrical to the Sarsen stones. This does not coincide with the Eastern facing holes (Y1 to Y7 and Z1 to Z7).
To see a diagram that makes this clear, [ : ) ] please see Section 12, Figure 12.1 in the following link -
https://sites.google.com/site/originsofstonehenge/home/a-season-weather-forecaster
( if the link does not work just copy it into the address bar )
If the above is correct then there must have been some marker for the centre of the Eastern facing arc - probably a hole, which should still be present in the chalk bedrock.
[ This message was edited by: Dave1982 on 2014-11-26 20:32 ]
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cropredy
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| Posted 27-11-2014 at 17:17
Dave1982,
I am no visual person relative to such as SH etc, but am highly impressed with what You have proposed and detailed.
To Myself it is what creates light and the impulses to enable fertility and warmth that are involved, but nothing to do with the visual, even if they almost match.
SH is a circuler 360 degree device, as are trees.
Respect sir,
Kevin
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Feanor
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| Posted 28-11-2014 at 09:43
Hi Dave!
There are several reasons why Stonehenge was situated where it is.
1. The so-called 'Ice Striations'. (Or percolated permafrost meltwater, et. al.) For the Sunline and mid-Standstill Moonline.
2. Its Latitude - it Had to be located at 51-degrees N for the Sun & Moon to work at right-angles together - stones or no stones.
3. Passable horizon viewpoints for the Equinox. (Not perfect, but not bad either.)
4. A conveniently positioned previous feature: the very useful North Barrow. It came to represent the Moon's position at High Standstill setting, matched later by the opposing South Barrow for Low Standstill rising.
When the so-called Car Park Totems were raised the area was still lightly forested. So much so that they probably didn't need to 'import' the timbers.
As people settled down and agriculture was introduced, the forest was slowly stripped away, and this exposed those pesky channels in the turf which align to the Solstices. This would have been a 'Eureka!' moment.
So they had known all about agriculture and seasonal changes at least 2- or 3,000 years before anyone thought to dig a circular ditch a few hundred feet away.
By studying positions of the near-original Aubrey Holes from the center of the Monument - not a seemingly arbitrary point - we can duplicate every single bullet of your seasonal thesis by using only the Moon.
The distance in time between the Aubreys and the Y & Z Holes is the same that's between us now and the Fall of Rome.
If they'd known all about Agriculture 8,000+ years ago, it doesn't follow that they'd feel the need to mark seasonal changes long afterward by using the woefully bad layout of 60 poorly gouged pits - the 2 rings of which are themselves separated by around 100 years.
In truth, by that time the Aubreys had been long forgotten and even the Avenue was getting along in years.
The Car Park Posts are firmly established smack in the heart of the Mesolithic. Stonehenge was begun in the late Neolithic. Its stones were raised at the dawn of the Bronze-Age. The Y & Z Holes find their place in time with the Iron-Age on the near-horizon.
These were almost certainly dug when the actual purpose, or at least nuance, of the curious structure had been forgotten, by a people who hadn't used stone tools for over 500 years.
I cordially submit that you're on the right track, but you're off in time by quite a wide margin. That very old, ridiculously perfect circle of 56 Aubreys already does all your work for you. From the center of the Monument they show us the 4 seasons, the 4 quarter seasons, the off-weeks between all 8, and even leap years. With a background of seasonal stars, they were accurate virtually to the hour.
Stonehenge in any incarnation had little or nothing to do with the ephemeral concepts of Agriculture. It's the finalized version in a long line of Cultural Statements about how the world works and how people had mastered that complex knowledge.
Best wishes my friend,
Neil
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Dave1982
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| Posted 28-11-2014 at 18:17
Hi Neil
Very good points you make there, especially for the Aubrey Holes. I haven't researched the Moon orientation as you have so note with interest what you say. I've no doubt that the Moon was regarded as very important but it's movements are quite complex compare to the sunrises - so I leave that study to you : )
The dating of the Y and Z holes is assumed from organic material in them. The holes themselves could date far further back if they had been regularly cleared out after the winter storms to expose the clean whiter chalk so dating from organic remains must be treated with caution.
Dave1982
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Dave1982
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| Posted 28-11-2014 at 18:28
Hi Kevin
'To Myself it is what creates light and the impulses to enable fertility and warmth that are involved'
That is something I feel and I know what you mean. Rings are a mystic concept and might originate with trees. When out hiking I do feel an awe and am moved by the serenity and presents of large trees in the forest.
It is possible to physically see infinity and eternity with a ring - preferable a gold one. Just put it in front of you and run your finger around the ring. Then ask yourself where does that ring start, and where does it end. You are now looking at infinity and eternity.
Dave1982 : )
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jonm
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| Posted 30-11-2014 at 16:34
Hi Dave
Quote:
| I've no doubt that the Moon was regarded as very important but it's movements are quite complex compare to the sunrises - so I leave that study to you : ) |
|
Like your thinking on this one Dave. There's no point in duplicating or trying to do too much. Neil's been pursuing this line for a while and I think he's on a good track.
A view I've recently come to is that it's worth publishing a couple of initial papers to show the sort of thing you looked at: The rest can then be archived. If interest develops in your theories, and at sometime in the future society feels it needs to know what happened back then, the rest of what you've looked at can be done when you have the time.
The only problem with archiving stuff is that you're unlikely to ever come back to it (done this with a lot of projects) and archaeology moves at an exceptionally slow pace. So if you do have something of interest, it'll probably get lost. One way to get around this problem is to archive the material in such a way that your children or grandchildren can come back to it if they want to.
Means that you spend more time properly archiving than actually putting anything out there though. Sound a good strategy to you?
Jon
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Dave1982
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| Posted 03-12-2014 at 20:47
Hi Jon
Yes it is absolutely vital that new knowledge is filed in such a way that it can be found at a later date. Sites such as this are really important to allow new thought to be published.
Dave1982
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jonm
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| Posted 04-12-2014 at 18:53
Thanks Dave
Agreed again Dave. It's easy to forget the mundane stuff when it's not a commercial project you're looking at.
Cheers
Jon
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