| Author | What Lies Beneath Stonehenge? |
AngieLake
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|  Posted 17-09-2014 at 22:53
Don't forget Part 2 is on tomorrow night!
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AngieLake
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|  Posted 18-09-2014 at 11:01
The last message is misleading now, so just an update to make sure everyone knows that Part 2 is on BBC 2 tonight, Thursday 18th September, at 8pm.
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sem
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|  Posted 18-09-2014 at 23:07
The ending says a "Fast evolving and dynamic culture." Seems we all get the Stonehenge we want!
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davidmorgan
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| Posted 19-09-2014 at 12:09
That was interesting. I thought some of the computer graphics were a bit OTT with strange matrix lines in the sky.
I'll have to watch the first prog now.
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Elijah
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| Posted 19-09-2014 at 16:07
I can’t say I was surprised to see the numerous burial mounds revealed by the team around Stonehenge. I believe the relationship between stone circles and burial mounds was ritual based. Something akin to the attraction church altars have for noble people. Does anyone have any stat’s on the link between circles and mounds?
John
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davidmorgan
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| Posted 19-09-2014 at 19:21
I've just watched part 1 on BBC iPlayer, at 55:06 they've put the West Kennett Long Barrow in the wrong place on the map - somewhere near Hungerford or Newbury even. Stupid techies.
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megalith6
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| Posted 23-09-2014 at 02:39
Impressive but a little too 'Hollywood' again for my liking - all that 'suggested bloody sacrifice' business because if only suggested why not factor in other suggestions? Cattle rustling exploits at that stage were probably rife - similar to the fate of Oetzi the Iceman. No, that makes me angry, one generation's 'slaughter stone' myth turns into the 'ritual killing henge' of the next 
The geometry is important and baffling - that gold lozenge - almost as baffling as the raising of Stonehenge; and how was all that knowledge passed on, without writing, it must have involved bardic poetry with strict metres capable of memorising vast chunks of knowledge, another facet of that vanished civilisation, lost to us.
Britain has never been an island in a sense - we were joined to the rest of Europe 8,000 years ago and passage by water was ironically probably a swifter way of getting from A to B.
Impressive viewing but too sensationalist for me - but I guess the progamme overseers will be watching the ratings ... the world is run by accountants today.
And as for 'direct routes' for the 40 ton sarsens from the Marlborough Downs to Salisbury Plain, um, there's the slight problem of a) ascending the Plain from the Marlborough Downs and b) you might also be crossing marshy terrain in the Vale of Pewsey, traversing a bog with a 40 ton megalith is not exactly my idea of a direct route to anywhere 
[ This message was edited by: megalith6 on 2014-09-23 02:41 ]
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combuijs
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| Posted 23-09-2014 at 09:26
For the "direct" route, see The origin of the Stonehenge Sarsen Stones. You still have to cross the Avon with that 40 ton beast and while you can more or less avoid the bogs, you will probably encounter a lot of mud. Highly unlikely.
Edit: sorry, link did not work. See Sarsen.org at the rightmost column.
[ This message was edited by: combuijs on 2014-09-23 09:28 ]
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jackdaw1
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| Posted 30-09-2014 at 05:51
Earthfiles
High Tech Revelations About Stonehenge and Other Nearby Buried “Monuments”
September 29, 2014 Birmingham, West Midlands County, England -
The U. K.'s University of Birmingham announced on September 10, 2014, that “a host of previously unknown archaeological monuments have been discovered around Stonehenge as part of an unprecedented digital mapping project that will transform our knowledge of this iconic landscape — including remarkable new findings on the world's largest ‘superhenge,’ Durrington Walls.”
Audio interview with Vince Gaffney and more to be found on the Earthfiles hyperlink at the top.
Excerpt:
Vince Gaffney, Ph.D., Prof. of Landscape Archaeology and Geomantics, University of Birmingham, Birmingham, England:
“The earliest phases of structural cultural archaeology on the site are 9,000 B. C. at Stonehenge. Several massive timber posts were set up and they would have been probably something like totem poles in the limestone chalk. Chalk is a soft rock with a very thin topsoil, so most of the monuments we looked at are only 60-70 centimeters (about 2 1/2 feet) below the ground surface. They're dug into very soft chalk and soil forms very slowly over this, so it never has a big depth of coverage."
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Runemage
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| Posted 30-09-2014 at 11:49
" They're dug into very soft chalk"
These people always make it sound as though digging into chalk bedrock is a doddle, as though you could almost just scoop it up out of the ground. It really isn't like that, it is literally rock hard.
Rune
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Feanor
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| Posted 30-09-2014 at 15:02
YaY!
Through the auspices of a well-known Portal friend and the wonder of the internet, I have finally been able to see this slick BBC Production!
Kudos to Vince Gaffney and the rest for helming this geo-study and providing years worth of data to be poured over. It does indeed show that Stonehenge was far from the lonely place many had thought it to be.
It was lovely to see David Jacques at Blick Mead and the extremely important work he and his crew have done there for years. (But if I hear him say: ‘Brilliant’ one more time, it will be my undoing!)
Showing a timeline for established occupation from the Mesolithic through the Iron Age is pivotal in understanding the landscape, but as wondrous as it probably was to the inhabitants, I don’t think the discovery of pink flint was the reason they built Stonehenge.
The landscape was obviously special; had been for thousands of years. But why? In my opinion, the survey-interpretation takes a jarring left turn with this aspect.
The Cursus … what shall I say? The most intriguing aspect in the survey of that very old, very mysterious structure could probably be identified as the several original causeways into it. I was immediately set to wondering if there might be copious cremations yet to be found in the interior. But as proved in the last years, the so-called ‘Fire Pits’ at the east and west sections are in no way associated with the future Stonehenge.
Durrington Walls is rightly identified as important to the story, though its obvious association to the River Avon is barely mentioned. Much of the survey done at that huge site compliments the intensive work of the Stonehenge Riverside Project. But wait! ─ neither it, nor the major personalities that drove those critical excavations are mentioned in any way.
The so-called Ice Striations along the Avenue continue on past the Elbow and proceed roughly northeast in the vague direction of Marlborough and Fyfield …
*Yawn* The transport track for the Stones has almost certainly been established, and it doesn’t correspond to the Avenue. This work was spearheaded by a conspicuously unnamed major player. The intrigue would manifest itself if the chalk stripes Didn’t continue!
In my view, they missed the significance of the widespread appearance of a Lozenge Shape in both art and craft. Though so far undetected in this general area, spirals are another component of that thesis, and the two seem to be complimentary in other important locations.
Presented with virtual certainty, the 1978 ditch skeleton is demonstrated as proof of Human Sacrifice. Really? Where’s all the other victims? Why was this individual chucked like a dog into the north ditch, left to rot and not interred with great ceremony, as might be expected? The man was clearly not a Sentinel or a Sacrifice. He was an interloper or spy, caught and killed for his effrontery. People like that don’t get graves.
Mention of the influential Beaker Folk is made, but the timeline for their arrival is later than generally reported. Personally, I believe it was they who instigated the Solar aspects at Stonehenge, and were the ones who raised the Stones. They showed up in the middle of the process ─ not towards the end.
The development of tin, copper and bronze is placed correctly, and is shown to play an important role in later cultural changes. However, the seemingly abrupt abandonment of Stonehenge and a cessation of megalithic building in general are reasoned as the social mechanics of metal and its swift introduction. Maybe / maybe not.
There is little acknowledgment of any celestial influence, other than the sun.
Rather than make this a lengthy and boring point-by-point dissection, I will conclude by saying that the sophisticated ground radar survey is an incredibly important contribution to any forthcoming interpretation of the Stonehenge landscape, and will take years to collate and place in context. There’s little doubt that numerous excavations will come to pass in the near future, and the key players behind this work should rightfully take up stations among the pantheon of learnéd people who’ve done first-rate investigation in the past.
There were many valid points made in the presentation, and the program was carefully crafted for wide appeal. The rather overly vaunted CGI was illuminating, descriptive and provided the viewer with a good illustrative interpretation.
The novice or casual viewer should watch this with interest, but with a strong caveat concerning several of the interpretations. On balance, the BBC has done a pretty good job with production values and editorial, but this program has an end-game of future funding for further study.
My rating system gives the production 4 or 5 stars out of 10.
Best wishes,
Neil
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Andy B
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| Posted 01-10-2014 at 00:29
> I don’t think the discovery of pink flint was the reason they built Stonehenge.
I think this is a classic example of "I'm an archaeologist and therefore allowed to make wild speculations and highlight associations of seemingly unrelated things" - and be taken seriously.
Anyone else does this - especially EM types* or (retired?) engineers* / physicists* / social scientists* - and they are seen as loons (paraphrasing)
[* Disclaimer - some of these may actually be loons - YMMV]
[ This message was edited by: Andy B on 2014-10-01 00:35 ]
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jonm
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| Posted 08-10-2014 at 17:05
Quote:
| [* Disclaimer - some of these may actually be loons - YMMV] |
|
Only some? Must be a headache for anyone trying to research which theories might be worth looking at: You gotta feel sorry for anyone trying to produce a film about Stonehenge. Though I was pretty impressed with the film that Pete Glastonbury helped out with (Ancient Skies)
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Dave1982
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| Posted 21-10-2014 at 17:42
I watched the program and enjoyed it but was surprised that a four year project by two large archaeology institutions did not find more than they did. We now know that this area could have been a large settlement, but of the lives and culture of the people we still know next to nothing.
I would like to know something about the way the people fed themselves and protected themselves against the weather.
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Dave1982
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| Posted 21-10-2014 at 17:52
With reference to Feanor's post above,
Quote -
There is little acknowledgment of any celestial influence, other than the sun.
-Unquote
Yes, I noticed that, and considering the obvious importance of the sunrise and sunset relative to the annual cycle, I would have thought more attention would have been paid to it.
[ This message was edited by: Dave1982 on 2014-10-21 17:54 ]
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AngieLake
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| Posted 31-10-2014 at 19:57
Another prog about to start in a mo...
'Secrets from the Sky' is about Stonehenge this week.
Friday 31st October ITV, 8pm
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Orpbit
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| Posted 03-11-2014 at 10:35
"Secrets from the Sky"
No new information about Stonehenge. Just subtle propaganda getting the unsuspecting masses used to the idea of drones flying overhead - "...if it's GOOD for discovering things about Stonehenge, then it's a GOOD thing for us to have too, monitoring (spying on) our daily lives and keeping us SAFE..."!
In reality the drone discovered absolutely nothing new at Stonehenge, and can never compare with high tech aerial or satellite imagery, nor technology such as LiDAR.
You can watch this on Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_OWVNGwiK8
Richard
[ This message was edited by: Orpbit on 2014-11-03 10:37 ]
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davidmorgan
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| Posted 03-11-2014 at 13:02
If I'm ever in Colorado, I might apply for a licence...
Colorado town flooded with applications for drone-hunting permits
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AngieLake
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| Posted 03-11-2014 at 17:50
I thought the programme was a bit boring, too, and deleted it from my recorder to free up space today.
Trouble is, we know a lot more about Stonehenge than the average person who watches TV because of all the input on Meg P, so there must have been some viewers who enjoyed it.
If it was aimed at schoolchildren it would have worked well, but we'd heard it all before.
Nice to see Obama strolling around the stones though.
I'd be more interested in a new programme on the results of laser-scanning of each sarsen stone in the circle, with an update on what's been found on the ones set aside for further investigation last time.
(Specifically Stone 16!) 
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Andy B
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| Posted 24-03-2015 at 16:42
The Stonehenge Hidden Landscapes Project (Short Report)
Over the centuries many archaeologists have investigated the site of Stonehenge and we now know a great deal about the phasing and nature of the site. However, the area around the henge, while containing many symbolic and ritual elements, is curiously ‘blank’. The Stonehenge Hidden Landscapes Project aims to place the site and its development through time within a landscape context using fast and accurate ground-based geophysical techniques. The project has developed a rapid strategy to map, visualize and interpret landscape-scale data and is applying the strategy to the area known as the Stonehenge ‘envelope’. The data are interpreted within a data rich three-dimensional data cube that has provided new insights regarding the apparent blank areas surrounding Stonehenge. It is an aim of the project to discover more about Stonehenge by looking out from the site rather than looking at it.
https://www.academia.edu/1751987/The_Stonehenge_Hidden_Landscapes_Project
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