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The Megalithic Portal and Megalith Map : Index >>
Sacred Sites and Megalithic Mysteries >> Divining disputes ?
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| Page 5 of 8 ( 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 ) |
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Divining disputes ? |
tiompan
Joined:
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|  Posted 28-02-2013 at 16:16
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On 2013-02-28 16:03, cropredy wrote:
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On 2013-02-28 15:19, tiompan wrote:
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On 2013-02-28 14:12, cropredy wrote:
Must think up a suitable badge for disabled humans?
cropredy
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Sound of an alarm ringing .
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http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/disabled
The word is a descriptive term , it is in no way offensive.
Vlad used it fully in the context of a humans inability to contact a local sacred space past memory.
I did find it funny , well because.
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It was nothing to do with the meaning of a word , it was the meaning of a phrase .
Ususally it is meaningless mumbo jumbo , but when you do say anything that makes any sense , you put your foot in it .
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rogeralbin
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| Posted 28-02-2013 at 16:17
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On 2013-02-28 14:53, tiompan wrote:
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On 2013-02-28 13:55, vlad wrote:
What`s this turmoil all about? Hopefully, all dowsers are aware that animals are going well without any rods or magnetometers. An obvious conclusion should be rather to revive those forgotten animal capabilities in us, - instead of constructing still new crutches for the disabled part of humanity?
At the end; it`s about a kind of a feed-back between our aura and the aura of a place. In effect, the "answer" of a place depends on the "quality" of a question a person approaches the sacred place with.The last self-evident answer comes probably from the Space you`ve become a part of, in the meantime.
[ This message was edited by: vlad on 2013-02-28 13:58 ]
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Earlier in this thread I suggested "Everything that I have read suggests that dowsing is ultimately , as you said , subjective ( although I don't see art as being appropriate ) and could be just as easily be considered as “impressions “ .
If you feel a sense of dread in a cathedral , joy at a battle site , or imagine that there was a sacrifice made at a megalithic monument that is merely your impression others may have different impressions neither are right or wrong . These are subjective feelings and there is and can be no debate about them .
The problem is that dowsers make claims that are more than just impressions .They claim to find stuff “which is otherwise hidden from view or knowledge “ .
I don't think the crutch and disabled metaphor is appropriate and I would support dowsers in their condemnation of the language . I believe a more accurate term for the rods/ pendulums are Mcguffins , they are not necessary and are merely there to provide some pretence of a physical counterpart to the "impressions " , plenty dowsers/geomancers don't use them .
George
[ This message was edited by: tiompan on 2013-02-28 15:15 ]
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First off although I am sure Vlad can speak for himself, it is obvious that English is not his first language and if fhe has been near the Knuckle on some of the modern politically correct nuances in modern English that ought to be kept in mind.
Secondly George your last paparagraph regarding the metaphor, supporting the dowsers in their condemnation and Mc Guffins. Can you clarify that (pun intended) you did not get the wrong end of the stick concerning the alleged sensory deprivation of non dowsers?
Rog
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tiompan
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| Posted 28-02-2013 at 16:48
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On 2013-02-28 16:17, rogeralbin wrote:
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On 2013-02-28 14:53, tiompan wrote:
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On 2013-02-28 13:55, vlad wrote:
What`s this turmoil all about? Hopefully, all dowsers are aware that animals are going well without any rods or magnetometers. An obvious conclusion should be rather to revive those forgotten animal capabilities in us, - instead of constructing still new crutches for the disabled part of humanity?
At the end; it`s about a kind of a feed-back between our aura and the aura of a place. In effect, the "answer" of a place depends on the "quality" of a question a person approaches the sacred place with.The last self-evident answer comes probably from the Space you`ve become a part of, in the meantime.
[ This message was edited by: vlad on 2013-02-28 13:58 ]
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Earlier in this thread I suggested "Everything that I have read suggests that dowsing is ultimately , as you said , subjective ( although I don't see art as being appropriate ) and could be just as easily be considered as “impressions “ .
If you feel a sense of dread in a cathedral , joy at a battle site , or imagine that there was a sacrifice made at a megalithic monument that is merely your impression others may have different impressions neither are right or wrong . These are subjective feelings and there is and can be no debate about them .
The problem is that dowsers make claims that are more than just impressions .They claim to find stuff “which is otherwise hidden from view or knowledge “ .
I don't think the crutch and disabled metaphor is appropriate and I would support dowsers in their condemnation of the language . I believe a more accurate term for the rods/ pendulums are Mcguffins , they are not necessary and are merely there to provide some pretence of a physical counterpart to the "impressions " , plenty dowsers/geomancers don't use them .
George
[ This message was edited by: tiompan on 2013-02-28 15:15 ]
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Secondly George your last paparagraph regarding the metaphor, supporting the dowsers in their condemnation and Mc Guffins. Can you clarify that (pun intended) you did not get the wrong end of the stick concerning the alleged sensory deprivation of non dowsers?
Rog
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Rog ,What an individual experiences at meaningful places , for them , does not require unnecessary paraphernalia e.g. rods ,pendulums , robes etc in order to allow them access to that experience . These are crutches in Vlad's analogy , I preferred McGuffin .
Would you mind commenting on the question asked a while ago "are you suggesting that it can't be done ?" i.e. do you believe dowsers can actually find stuff like gold , soap , oil , missing people ,minerals , whatever you care to include ?
George
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cropredy
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| Posted 28-02-2013 at 17:17
I have another sign to design....
UNCLEAN...UNCLEAN.
Beware dowsers
They can't find the soap.
cropredy
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Runemage
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| Posted 28-02-2013 at 18:39
Guys, please remember the use of the quote facility, less is more for anyone trying to follow the conversation.
Re the term disabled for people whose senses aren't so finely tuned as others, yes, it's not PC but it wasn't meant in an offensive way. However, I think it's best to avoid it for further discussions.
Many thanks,
Rune
[ This message was edited by: Runemage on 2013-02-28 18:54 ]
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Runemage
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| Posted 28-02-2013 at 18:45
I want to go back to this,
>>Earlier in this thread I suggested "Everything that I have read suggests that dowsing is ultimately , as you said , subjective ( although I don't see art as being appropriate ) and could be just as easily be considered as “impressions “ .
If you feel a sense of dread in a cathedral , joy at a battle site , or imagine that there was a sacrifice made at a megalithic monument that is merely your impression others may have different impressions neither are right or wrong . These are subjective feelings and there is and can be no debate about them .
The problem is that dowsers make claims that are more than just impressions .They claim to find stuff “which is otherwise hidden from view or knowledge “ . <<
In the case of earth energies, the difference between impressions, which are feelings, good, bad or indifferent and the things that are dowsed at sites if the person is thinking of earth energies are the patterns that are found. They unfold in front of you and make a shape which you track and it's not evident until markers are placed on the ground what is there. The pattern doesn't form in your mind beforehand - at least it doesn't in mine.
To me, finding these is far removed from any impressions or subjective feelings that I may or may not have, what does anyone else think? do you find a difference too?
Rune
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tiompan
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| Posted 28-02-2013 at 18:57
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On 2013-02-28 18:39, Runemage wrote:
Guys, please remember the use of the quote facility, less is more for anyone trying to follow the conversation.
Re the term disabled for people whose senses aren't so finely tunes as others, yes, it's not PC but it wasn't meant in an offensive way. However, I think it's best to avoid it for further discussions.
Many thanks,
Rune
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Rune , that wasn't the only mention .
Senses being finely tuned .
Could you clarify please ?
George
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tiompan
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| Posted 28-02-2013 at 19:38
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On 2013-02-28 18:45, Runemage wrote:
I want to go back to this,
>>Earlier in this thread I suggested "Everything that I have read suggests that dowsing is ultimately , as you said , subjective ( although I don't see art as being appropriate ) and could be just as easily be considered as “impressions “ .
If you feel a sense of dread in a cathedral , joy at a battle site , or imagine that there was a sacrifice made at a megalithic monument that is merely your impression others may have different impressions neither are right or wrong . These are subjective feelings and there is and can be no debate about them .
The problem is that dowsers make claims that are more than just impressions .They claim to find stuff “which is otherwise hidden from view or knowledge “ . <<
In the case of earth energies, the difference between impressions, which are feelings, good, bad or indifferent and the things that are dowsed at sites if the person is thinking of earth energies are the patterns that are found. They unfold in front of you and make a shape which you track and it's not evident until markers are placed on the ground what is there. The pattern doesn't form in your mind beforehand - at least it doesn't in mine.
To me, finding these is far removed from any impressions or subjective feelings that I may or may not have, what does anyone else think? do you find a difference too?
Rune
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Rune,
I said that dowsing could be considered as impressions , not the final patterns resulting from dowsing which would be an accumulation of impressions . The impressions are not the final patterns or sum of events that you have dowsed , but your response every time a dowsing event happens . Every time the rods open or close is an impression from the environment . I also said that that subjective impressions cannot be debated . However the cause of the impression can be debated .
George
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vlad
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| Posted 28-02-2013 at 19:45
OK, guys. No offence meant with that description ("disabled"); I can explain more precise what`s this about. You can use any cow to find the best place for building a house within a farmland. This is a place she chooses to lay down and ruminate her food. Animals can discern between yin- and yang-places. My home turtle use to visit all yin-areas in my flat, when let out from his cage, and then chooses one of them to sleep in. I suppose all the cows and turtles have those "dowsing" instincts built in.
Now, as for humans, I`ve met several people out on the land in my life, which could verbalize a "life-force" quality of a place (not marked with a stone), at least saying - "similar strange place lies at the X`s farmstead". Then, one farmer-wife had a round garden-table placed precisely upon a yin circle-area and used to say - "sit down here,folks, it will make you good". Strangely enough, such round yin-cores are typical of Bronze Age stone circles, while Iron Age ones have a crosing of multiple thin yang-lines in the middle. It`s an old idea that yin-energy strengthens human body while yang-energy interacts with human "soul", more or less.
So here is a QUESTION if all of human beings have had once those capabilities as animals and many traditional farmers display still today. I do think so. It follows then that those "dowsing" capabilities have been deteriorated in the rest of humanity, especially in people living in big cities!? "Function disabled"? - just that, I suppose. - Yes; this term from PC`s terminology fits well.
As for all that equipment I`ve meant with unnecessary "crutches"... Well; rods and magnetometers give you only some contours of the "life-force"-streams permeating the land, while their vibrating contents are left undetected, unless...
P.S. I was just trying to add to the situations described by rogeralbin, above - those vanished circles and impressions of his collegues around there.
[ This message was edited by: vlad on 2013-02-28 21:04 ]
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cropredy
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| Posted 28-02-2013 at 20:56
Vlad,
I totally concure about where cattle bed down, and they rotate in their sleep directly on the centre point and in direction of rotation.
But don't get Me talking about observing animals or I will go into overdrive about moles, they are stunning little dowsers supreme.
( I did think about colouring the mole hills to bring out the spiral routes they take.)
I wrote a poem about them that some petty( petit)stone removed...it was about the enormous amount of moles near stone henge, and how sore their paws were because of all the flint, and how the crows say cor cor cor( I realise they are not crows at SH)
And how poor some are that can't afford the enormous charge to gawp at SH, but My rods don't need to be so close .
And if all could see what My rods can see, then they too would say cor cor cor.
cropredy
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rogeralbin
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| Posted 01-03-2013 at 00:25
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On 2013-02-28 16:48, tiompan wrote:
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Would you mind commenting on the question asked a while ago "are you suggesting that it can't be done ?" i.e. do you believe dowsers can actually find stuff like gold , soap , oil , missing people ,minerals , whatever you care to include ?
George
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George.
I keep an open mind, I have seen video footage and heard eyewitness accounts of hidden watches being located but I have not witnessed it. I am aware of a couple of missing person locations which you dismissed as anecdotal, although the chap involved did locate on two separate occaisions bodies by whatever means.
Previously I cautioned about trying to shoehorn people into looking for things that they did not specialise in and crowing fail when they did.
What you chose to misrepresent was my statement that "No one on this site had claimed to specialise in locating bars of soap.".
If as you claim you want meaningful data stop trying load the die.
rog.
[ This message was edited by: rogeralbin on 2013-03-01 00:28 ]
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rogeralbin
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| Posted 01-03-2013 at 00:41
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On 2013-02-28 18:45, Runemage wrote:
The pattern doesn't form in your mind beforehand - at least it doesn't in mine.
To me, finding these is far removed from any impressions or subjective feelings that I may or may not have, what does anyone else think? do you find a difference too?
Rune
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Agree entirely Rune.
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vlad
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| Posted 01-03-2013 at 07:13
Just to round up my input... So we can refresh our sensibility to the life-force streams in nature in many ways. We can watch the animals selecting their places of feeding and leisure. Local folk tales and people of the land can give also many hints. And at the last, there are still places of training around medieval monasteries, which we can use to tune finely our senses.
Those monk training- grounds I met were called "paradise" and had a form of rectangular tracks within orchards and/or gardens. In a matter of fact, a "paradise" laid out at one modern monastery had quite irregular a track - winding among old trees, but it was kept strictly up to the invisible paradisiacal "algorithm".
It`s also worthwhile to visit old simple churches, where female believers were sitting at the left side and the men on the other side of the nave. Then the altar was placed in a circular area where the yin and yang- life streams were supposed to meet and mix together? Hmm...
So far as for the ABC of the inner contents you can pinpoint among lines, which you detect with your rods and meters. BTW With a "life-force" I`ve meant Indian "prana" and the Chinese "qi". How can dowsers function without learning to detect those life-force streams in their own bodies and in Nature as well as interactions of same?
[ This message was edited by: vlad on 2013-03-01 12:50 ]
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tiompan
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| Posted 01-03-2013 at 08:19
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On 2013-03-01 00:25, rogeralbin wrote:
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On 2013-02-28 16:48, tiompan wrote:
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Would you mind commenting on the question asked a while ago "are you suggesting that it can't be done ?" i.e. do you believe dowsers can actually find stuff like gold , soap , oil , missing people ,minerals , whatever you care to include ?
George
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George.
I keep an open mind, I have seen video footage and heard eyewitness accounts of hidden watches being located but I have not witnessed it. I am aware of a couple of missing person locations which you dismissed as anecdotal, although the chap involved did locate on two separate occaisions bodies by whatever means.
Previously I cautioned about trying to shoehorn people into looking for things that they did not specialise in and crowing fail when they did.
What you chose to misrepresent was my statement that "No one on this site had claimed to specialise in locating bars of soap.".
If as you claim you want meaningful data stop trying load the die.
rog.
[ This message was edited by: rogeralbin on 2013-03-01 00:28 ]
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Roger , in what way did I misrepresent the "No one on this site had claimed to specialise in locating bars of soap.". comment ? If there was any misrepresenation it was in the term specialising which I never used and concentrating on the joke entry of soap .
I have asked the simple question on various posts and it continually gets evaded until now where you say you have an open mind .There are others who have positive views on dowsing including one who has said he can “dowse everything” , but they have not as eyt replied . It would be helpful to understand their thinking . In what way am I loading the die ?
George
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tiompan
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| Posted 01-03-2013 at 08:23
[/quote]
Personally I believe that Any One who cannot comprehend the dowsing aspect to megalithic sites will ever understand them, however that is your loss I don't seek to convert.
[ This message was edited by: rogeralbin on 2013-02-27 03:37 ]
[/quote]
Apart from non evidence based conjecture and the more concrete examples of dowsing results that do not match what has been discovered , thus giving us an insight into the lack of ability of dowsers to find features they believed they could , dowsing has contributed nothing to our understanding of megalithic sites . If you relied on dowsing for your factual knowledge of megalithic sites you would have an empty text book .
What has dowsing ever contributed to the understanding of megalithic sites .?
George
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Elijah
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| Posted 01-03-2013 at 10:34
Quote:
| George wrote... If you feel a sense of dread in a cathedral , joy at a battle site , or imagine that there was a sacrifice made at a megalithic monument that is merely your impression |
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Not imaginary George, there is a huge amount of archaeological evidence to link megaliths with the practice of blood sacrifice; evidence that stretches back to the start of human sedation. For some unknown reason British anthropologists see this as evidence offeasting!
It's not the most attractive subject I know, but it was once a global phenomenon. The problem is that historians have neglected to portray the true magnitude and history of this bizarre ritual activity. This is compounded by the fact that Anthropologists invariably concentrate on human sacrifice and neglect the extraordinary volume of animals that were consumed. It's a cop-out to deal with this as [feasting activity[/b] because it omits to mention the duality of blood sacrifice. The sacrificial act provided two products, a) spirit laden blood, and b) cooked meat. The whole point of the sacrifice was to collect blood for ritual purposes; for the priests and prophets etc, the flesh was a by-product.
I've asked the members of this site this question before but I'll ask it again... what is the relationship between stone circles and stone uprights, and megalithic tombs?
John
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Elijah
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| Posted 01-03-2013 at 10:41
Apologies, my last post was off-topic.
Kevin, have you ever tried dowsing the stones at dawn or dusk?
Or when it rains for that matter; I had a very interesting experiences in 1972 when I dowsed around some trees when it began to rain hard.
John
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tiompan
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| Posted 01-03-2013 at 11:23
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On 2013-03-01 10:34, Elijah wrote:
Quote:
| George wrote... If you feel a sense of dread in a cathedral , joy at a battle site , or imagine that there was a sacrifice made at a megalithic monument that is merely your impression |
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Not imaginary George, there is a huge amount of archaeological evidence to link megaliths with the practice of blood sacrifice; evidence that stretches back to the start of human sedation. For some unknown reason British anthropologists see this as evidence offeasting!
It's not the most attractive subject I know, but it was once a global phenomenon. The problem is that historians have neglected to portray the true magnitude and history of this bizarre ritual activity. This is compounded by the fact that Anthropologists invariably concentrate on human sacrifice and neglect the extraordinary volume of animals that were consumed. It's a cop-out to deal with this as [feasting activity[/b] because it omits to mention the duality of blood sacrifice. The sacrificial act provided two products, a) spirit laden blood, and b) cooked meat. The whole point of the sacrifice was to collect blood for ritual purposes; for the priests and prophets etc, the flesh was a by-product.
I've asked the members of this site this question before but I'll ask it again... what is the relationship between stone circles and stone uprights, and megalithic tombs?
John
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John ,what I was talking about was imaginary i.e. the use of the imagination in particular places , it needn't have any basis in historical reality .
Sacrifice has been an important component of human behaviour since recorded history and obviously much earlier but physical evidence , like that for homicide , is not always going to be that clear . An arrow in the skull or decapitation is pretty diagnostic but strangulation , poisoning , stab wound to the heart etc don't give us much to go on with a 5,000 yr old skeleton ,similarly , large amounts of animal bones in a midden cannot tell us much about any ritual that may or may not have taken place .
The stone circle , megalthic tomb query sounds like a question for another forum . Considering the geographical and chronological spread of these monuments maybe something a bit more specific might help .
George
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cropredy
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| Posted 01-03-2013 at 18:57
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On 2013-03-01 10:41, Elijah wrote:
Apologies, my last post was off-topic.
Kevin, have you ever tried dowsing the stones at dawn or dusk?
Or when it rains for that matter; I had a very interesting experiences in 1972 when I dowsed around some trees when it began to rain hard.
John
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I dowse constantly, and there is a marked variaton that is detectable at aprox an hour after dawn and an hour before dusk.
The variation is measurable .
It displays itself when thinking of the flows along the geometry, they litterally rise and fall in width.
There is then further variations relative to the moon with peaks four times every lunar month, there are then variations relative to the sun four times a year.
If I had the time I would have logged all of this, but My main focus is survival of My business, so dowsing has to fit into this.
luckily having My own business means that I can locate Myself on the crossing of two major leylines that meet in My shop, they are north/south and east/west, but not compass such.
Here where I live is directly upon the central leyline down the aisle of the church a hundred yards away with a north /south leyline crossing over it, thats where I am sat now.
I sleep with that line from the church hitting the centre of My head.
I have dowsing rods with Me permanately, and have made fold up ones to fit in Whatever pockets I have.
I check constantly and have a personal head full of this data.
I cross the belinous line constantly , and know it rather well.
cropredy
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tiompan
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| Posted 01-03-2013 at 20:16
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On 2013-03-01 18:57, cropredy wrote:
I cross the belinous line constantly , and know it rather well.
cropredy
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Is the belinus line straight and if so what sites does it connect ?
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