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The Megalithic Portal and Megalith Map : Index >>
Sacred Sites and Megalithic Mysteries >> Divining disputes ?
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Divining disputes ? |
tiompan
Joined:
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|  Posted 26-02-2013 at 16:29
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On 2013-02-26 12:59, Runemage wrote:
Randi links
Self-confessed liar, charlatan and more, I'd never believe anything he did, or showed other people doing, he has an agenda. Tabletop magic is fantastic, in your face and seemingly "real". But we all know it's a con.
Randi, like Derren Brown and many other competent fraudsters will direct you to see what they want you to see and they can make you think you have drawn your own independent conclusions, when in reality you are behaving and thinking in the way they have steered you.
Rune
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He and Derren Brown are honest about their trickery , you never hear the deluded or gullible admit , " yes I'm gullible and likely to believe in ufo's, crop circles , psychic phenomena, free energy etc . with ablsolutely no supporting evidence because it's appealing "
Don't forget he is also a debunker of fraudsters .
Of course he has an agenda , as do the dowsers .
Did you see anything in those links that suggest that there was trickery on his behalf ?
They are merely films of similar experiments with similar results .
George
[ This message was edited by: tiompan on 2013-02-26 16:31 ]
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sem
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from Bridgend,S.Wales
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| Posted 26-02-2013 at 17:18
"Of course he has an agenda , as do the dowsers ."
Well Randi's agenda is quite obvious - not to give money away unless he has to - but what is the dowsers' agenda?
DocP, who doesn't post on MegP ( I suspect this also applies to the majority of dowsers), is quite forthright in his view that he gets the same reactions from his rods at the same type of site ie stone rows differ from circles, which differ from dolmens etc,etc. He is also of the opinion that dowsing works on a sub-atomic ( ie quantum) level, the laws for which differ drastically from mainstream laws of science.
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tiompan
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| Posted 26-02-2013 at 18:05
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On 2013-02-26 17:18, sem wrote:
"Of course he has an agenda , as do the dowsers ."
Well Randi's agenda is quite obvious - not to give money away unless he has to - but what is the dowsers' agenda?
DocP, who doesn't post on MegP ( I suspect this also applies to the majority of dowsers), is quite forthright in his view that he gets the same reactions from his rods at the same type of site ie stone rows differ from circles, which differ from dolmens etc,etc. He is also of the opinion that dowsing works on a sub-atomic ( ie quantum) level, the laws for which differ drastically from mainstream laws of science.
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The two progs were not involved in handing out the money .
The dowsers agenda is to show that they are not deluding themselves .
Getting the same reaction from the same person at the same type of spot / circumstances is classic ideomotor effect .
Quantum mechanics are oft used to explain the "paranormal " , as will the next major paradigm shift in physics . In what way does dowsing work ? That seems to be so far unexplained . The rods/ pendulums move etc move and believers believe it is due to an external force in the environment . Sceptics don't believe that , mainly because in all the years of dowsing there has been nothing to show that movements are connected with what the dowsers believe i.e. they don't find anything more than is expected by chance , and why suggest that it is a result of some unknown force when there is a simpler explanation . I don't believe the explanation for the movement is valid and there is no evidence for finds greater than chance where the movemnets occur . Fwiw I dobn't believe Ouija boards contact spirits or that the movement of the planchette has anything to do with spirits or forces we are unaware of or anything to do with quantum mechanics . Why do people get upset about that ?
George
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cropredy
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| Posted 26-02-2013 at 18:20
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On 2013-02-26 18:05, tiompan wrote:
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On 2013-02-26 17:18, sem wrote:
"Of course he has an agenda , as do the dowsers ."
Well Randi's agenda is quite obvious - not to give money away unless he has to - but what is the dowsers' agenda?
DocP, who doesn't post on MegP ( I suspect this also applies to the majority of dowsers), is quite forthright in his view that he gets the same reactions from his rods at the same type of site ie stone rows differ from circles, which differ from dolmens etc,etc. He is also of the opinion that dowsing works on a sub-atomic ( ie quantum) level, the laws for which differ drastically from mainstream laws of science.
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The two progs were not involved in handing out the money .
The dowsers agenda is to show that they are not deluding themselves .
Getting the same reaction from the same person at the same type of spot / circumstances is classic ideomotor effect .
Quantum mechanics are oft used to explain the "paranormal " , as will the next major paradigm shift in physics . In what way does dowsing work ? That seems to be so far unexplained . The rods/ pendulums move etc move and believers believe it is due to an external force in the environment . Sceptics don't believe that , mainly because in all the years of dowsing there has been nothing to show that movements are connected with what the dowsers believe i.e. they don't find anything more than is expected by chance , and why suggest that it is a result of some unknown force when there is a simpler explanation . I don't believe the explanation for the movement is valid and there is no evidence for finds greater than chance where the movemnets occur . Fwiw I dobn't believe Ouija boards contact spirits or that the movement of the planchette has anything to do with spirits or forces we are unaware of or anything to do with quantum mechanics . Why do people get upset about that ?
George
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You appear to be suffering from ODOD.
Obsessive Doubts Of Dowsing.
Usually called ..Oh Dear Oh Dear.
In it's extreme form, a type of OCD the sufferer becomes a kind of St George who is determined to slay the monster dowsers.
In an extreme case, a sufferer charged at windmills ...thinking they were monsters, so sad .
Oh Dear Oh Dear.
cropredy
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cropredy
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from Oxon
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| Posted 26-02-2013 at 18:41
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On 2013-02-26 18:05, tiompan wrote:
Quote:
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On 2013-02-26 17:18, sem wrote:
"Of course he has an agenda , as do the dowsers ."
Well Randi's agenda is quite obvious - not to give money away unless he has to - but what is the dowsers' agenda?
DocP, who doesn't post on MegP ( I suspect this also applies to the majority of dowsers), is quite forthright in his view that he gets the same reactions from his rods at the same type of site ie stone rows differ from circles, which differ from dolmens etc,etc. He is also of the opinion that dowsing works on a sub-atomic ( ie quantum) level, the laws for which differ drastically from mainstream laws of science.
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The two progs were not involved in handing out the money .
The dowsers agenda is to show that they are not deluding themselves .
Getting the same reaction from the same person at the same type of spot / circumstances is classic ideomotor effect .
Quantum mechanics are oft used to explain the "paranormal " , as will the next major paradigm shift in physics . In what way does dowsing work ? That seems to be so far unexplained . The rods/ pendulums move etc move and believers believe it is due to an external force in the environment . Sceptics don't believe that , mainly because in all the years of dowsing there has been nothing to show that movements are connected with what the dowsers believe i.e. they don't find anything more than is expected by chance , and why suggest that it is a result of some unknown force when there is a simpler explanation . I don't believe the explanation for the movement is valid and there is no evidence for finds greater than chance where the movemnets occur . Fwiw I dobn't believe Ouija boards contact spirits or that the movement of the planchette has anything to do with spirits or forces we are unaware of or anything to do with quantum mechanics . Why do people get upset about that ?
George
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I didn't watch either of Your pseudoscientific links.
If two dowsers report the self same reactions at specific locations that know nothing of the others findings how is that anything to do with the idiotmotor so called rubbish??
Dowsers are showing via the devices held in their hands their thought patterns .
Those thoughts symbiotically interact with the thought patterns in the Earths memory, and with specific recognisable thought( memory) patterns of whatever the dowser focusses upon and recognises through learning.
Those memory fields are imho in 4D, and contain information, and are part of the creative system of universe, a universe that is far far more complex than what We SEE via our dominant senses.
Dowsers are alive, and act symbiotically within a living memory based universe, all none living mass and matter here exists within the memory of the Earth.
The whole system is of an electrical universe which induces magnetism at all scale, nothing exists in 3D that is not held in the magnetic memory.
I have not been indoctrinated in such thinking, it is all a case of attuning to the memory contained in universe , and deducing the methods, I do find very similer in the vedic traditions, where fibonacci was clear long before any Italian.
cropredy
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tiompan
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| Posted 26-02-2013 at 18:52
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On 2013-02-26 18:41, cropredy wrote:
I didn't watch either of Your pseudoscientific links.
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You still don't understand what pseudoscientific means .
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AngieLake
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from Newton Abbot, Devon
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|  Posted 27-02-2013 at 00:50
[quote]
On 2013-02-26 17:18, sem wrote:
"Of course he has an agenda , as do the dowsers ."
Well Randi's agenda is quite obvious - not to give money away unless he has to - but what is the dowsers' agenda?
DocP, who doesn't post on MegP ( I suspect this also applies to the majority of dowsers), is quite forthright in his view that he gets the same reactions from his rods at the same type of site ie stone rows differ from circles, which differ from dolmens etc,etc. He is also of the opinion that dowsing works on a sub-atomic ( ie quantum) level, the laws for which differ drastically from mainstream laws of science.
Sem
It's good to know that there's at least one scientist like Doc P (who I met once when he took us on an outing to the Beacons), who embraces dowsing. I'm sure there are many more, but as you say, they'd avoid posting on here.
It would be good if Tiompan could try dowsing himself with L-shaped rods, though I doubt they'd work for him if he is so sceptical.
Having said that, my sister-in-law was extremely sceptical, but it worked for her at Swinside in 2003:
http://www.megalithic.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=a312&file=index&do=showpic&pid=41983
It didn't give her the urge to pursue it, but at least she'll have known what it feels like to have the rods moving of their own accord. It's a rather odd feeling, but I don't think we need to analyse it to the 'n'th degree, but just 'do it'.
(Is it one of our regulars who uses the phrase 'K.I.S.S.'?) 
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rogeralbin
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| Posted 27-02-2013 at 02:39
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On 2013-02-26 08:39, tiompan wrote:
Quote:
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On 2013-02-26 03:22, rogeralbin wrote:
Back to looking for tits on Bullfrogs!
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Obviously not . According to the British Society of Dowsers “To dowse is to search, with the aid of simple hand held tools or instruments, for that which is otherwise hidden from view or knowledge. It can be applied to searches for a great number of artefacts and entities. “
Or are you suggesting that it can't be done .
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What I am sggesting Tiompy G is that if you have an issue with the British Societey of Dowsers, that you take it up with them.
who has ever claimed to specialise in locating bars of soap etc on this site?
Personally I believe that Any One who cannot comprehend the dowsing aspect to megalithic sites will ever understand them, however that is your loss I don't seek to convert.
Further if any are prepared to look for Bullfrog mammaries at your behest more fool them.
[ This message was edited by: rogeralbin on 2013-02-27 03:37 ]
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PeteG
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from Avebury
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| Posted 27-02-2013 at 03:15
Hi Tiompan,
8 years ago my friend Jim Gunter geophys'd the south west quadrant of Avebury circle.
Dowser Shaun Ogbourne did a test and they matched the results.
Jim threw open a challenge to other dowsers to try to see if they could find anything that matched.
No one has bothered to take up the challenge.
It seems to be beneath Pro-Dowsers.
here's the pdf of the quadrant
http://www.peteglastonbury.plus.com/SW%20Quadrant%20Dowsing%20plot.PDF
If any dowser would like to try and plot what they find we would be most interested in matching the results with the geophys.
PeteG
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rogeralbin
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| Posted 27-02-2013 at 04:10
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On 2013-02-26 12:27, karloff wrote:
Hi
Ok I’m not a dowser and I don’t want to stray too far away from Angie’s topic.
Do dowsers ever discuss the possibility that two independent dowsers can detect the same thing because they are both responding to the same stimuli, and that the stimuli is not energetic but visual clues within a landscape or place or even specific areas. For example as an archaeologist I’m trained to spot and identify features within landscapes that many people may only notice unconsciously, such as slight raises in a hedgerow that can indicate underlying buried banks or non-natural platforms, or canalised or altered watercourses. Is it possible dowsers are responding to these type of clues?
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HI Karloff,
With friends who have shown a interest I normally drive them along a stretch of road at night in the vicinity of a couple of menhirs, asking that they be aware of anything feeling different ie hair standing on end, tingle on the skin or the sensation of something pulling through them. Night appears to have a more defined signature.
Having established that they are indeed able to feel the enviromental changes (no rods used), I suggest to them that they repeat the exercise without me a night or two later in the urban enviroment along a particular stretch of road. The area is developed and the megaliths long gone (150/200 years), the landscape clues are not there and only the serious local history buff would have found the references to the destroyed megaliths.
A large majority identify the same locations, those that do not tend to be those that were unable to feel the menhirs in the first instance.
Anecdotal of course but proof enough for me, try it, it may well alter your perspective and bring new insights.
Rog.
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tiompan
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| Posted 27-02-2013 at 08:37
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On 2013-02-27 00:50, AngieLake wrote:
It would be good if Tiompan could try dowsing himself with L-shaped rods, though I doubt they'd work for him if he is so sceptical.
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Angie , what makes you think I haven't dowsed ? Beacuse I am sceptical .?
I have mentioned a couple of times here that like many people who are sceptical , I dowsed in the early 70's , maybe even before you . Rods open and closed ,at various points the pendulum went from left to right , right to left , clockwise and anti-clockwise . I have asked here on a couple of occasions , is that dowsing ? but no reply .This was attempted over a period of years ,my son probably thinks I'm a dowser as he asked to borrow the rods to find a drain at the farm . I have read most of the litertaure , Graves ,lethbridge ,Underwood etc can remember when dowsing was about finding water not earth energies and the introduction of Eitel's ? earlier book Feng Shui became mixed up with ley lines and "ancient sites " dowsing and bosh , what you get today . I don't believe my experience counts for anything what matters is results and attitudes . Seeing as you asked and I replied maybe you can answer one of my questions .
Is using the rods/pendulums and discover they move as I described above and over a period of time , dowsing ?
George
[ This message was edited by: tiompan on 2013-02-27 09:46 ]
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tiompan
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| Posted 27-02-2013 at 08:48
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On 2013-02-27 02:39, rogeralbin wrote:
Quote:
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On 2013-02-26 08:39, tiompan wrote:
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On 2013-02-26 03:22, rogeralbin wrote:
Back to looking for tits on Bullfrogs!
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Obviously not . According to the British Society of Dowsers “To dowse is to search, with the aid of simple hand held tools or instruments, for that which is otherwise hidden from view or knowledge. It can be applied to searches for a great number of artefacts and entities. “
Or are you suggesting that it can't be done .
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What I am sggesting Tiompy G is that if you have an issue with the British Societey of Dowsers, that you take it up with them.
who has ever claimed to specialise in locating bars of soap etc on this site?
Personally I believe that Any One who cannot comprehend the dowsing aspect to megalithic sites will ever understand them, however that is your loss I don't seek to convert.
[ This message was edited by: rogeralbin on 2013-02-27 03:37 ]
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Rogy R , Cropredy has claimed on this site that he can “dowse everything” . Ask the punters what do dowsers do and they will probably mention find stuff .
You didn't comment on “Or are you suggesting that it can't be done . “
As for dowsing at megaliths see above ,once again I was probably doing it before you . Peoples hair stand on end in darkened crypts , others feel joy and other extremes of emotion at places that are meaningful for them ,maybe if they were holding rods they would go haywire . What has that to do with the efficacy of dowsing ?
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tiompan
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| Posted 27-02-2013 at 09:33
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On 2013-02-27 03:15, PeteG wrote:
Hi Tiompan,
8 years ago my friend Jim Gunter geophys'd the south west quadrant of Avebury circle.
Dowser Shaun Ogbourne did a test and they matched the results.
Jim threw open a challenge to other dowsers to try to see if they could find anything that matched.
No one has bothered to take up the challenge.
It seems to be beneath Pro-Dowsers.
here's the pdf of the quadrant
http://www.peteglastonbury.plus.com/SW%20Quadrant%20Dowsing%20plot.PDF
If any dowser would like to try and plot what they find we would be most interested in matching the results with the geophys.
PeteG
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Hi Pete , Do you have a pic of the grids with Jim's findings ?
Punters and archaeos find stuff all the time it's not magic it's a combination of knowing where and how to look , luck and the site/area being productive , nothing gets said about their methods , the stuff is found and that is what matters not the finder . Dowsers despite spending their time at the honey pots don't find anything above chance , so maybe they are special . Paul Daw , a surveyor provided copies of dowsed plans at Stanton Drew showing the avenue extending to the river and extra pits but the match between his findings and magnetometry was not good . Although this may be seen as a failure even if he had been shown to be right it would not necessarily have been evidence for the efficacy of dowsing ,Burl had an earlier pic suggesting it , avenues can extend further than what is apparent today , others have suggested it simply because it is possibility , maybe even likely etc . I think that is the problem with Avebury or other honey pot sites too , you are likely to find stuff , a control woould be needed of one disinterested amateur guessing and another experienced eye making a serious attempt .
George
George
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cropredy
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from Oxon
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| Posted 27-02-2013 at 09:59
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On 2013-02-27 03:15, PeteG wrote:
Hi Tiompan,
8 years ago my friend Jim Gunter geophys'd the south west quadrant of Avebury circle.
Dowser Shaun Ogbourne did a test and they matched the results.
Jim threw open a challenge to other dowsers to try to see if they could find anything that matched.
No one has bothered to take up the challenge.
It seems to be beneath Pro-Dowsers.
here's the pdf of the quadrant
http://www.peteglastonbury.plus.com/SW%20Quadrant%20Dowsing%20plot.PDF
If any dowser would like to try and plot what they find we would be most interested in matching the results with the geophys.
PeteG
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As soon as circumstances allow I intend to spend some time at Avebury, I would appreciate a little help?
The plan You have posted I assume is where You come through the stile?
What I hope to do first is to plot out each seperate vortex point within the henge.
I can do that reasonably quickly , and have done that area before .
There are some concrete horrible things ..one marking the supposed centre point of a circle???
If I am remembering correctly it is aprox 13 inch out of correct location.
Basically once the correct exact point is located, it is then just a case of circumnavigating that point say twenty feet away from it and marking where the lines are detected, the lines bisect the point so only 180 degrees needs doing...that can then be drawn onto a map of the area...compass bearings unfortunately have to be utilised to identify each line orientation.
There are more than two vortex points within that henge.
I can't remember the number of lines relative to that particuler point but it will be 55 or 34 each adjoining vortex point has a fibonacci sequence relationship with it's neighbouring one 55/34....55/21....34/13 etc etc.
Just with those single lines Avebury within the henge will be complex, but that is merely the start, and why I have not done this before...I have done it personally so know the consequences.
Each of those lines is the centre one of nine parallel lines at specific distances apart.
It is possible to scale this out onto a full size drawing board, and I have My own.
Thus if that vortex point has 55 lines around 180 degrees there will be a total of 495 lines related to it in total around 360 degrees, if there are six such vortex points it becomes very difficult at drawing board scale to draw them out.
What I have thought of doing is multi layering each one over the other, then the henge ditch and embankment route will begin to be revealed.
It is basically simple, and is to do with the local manipulation of two opposite spin flows, then instead of these flows carrying on along each individual line, they instead are gathered up in potential.
One in the ditch, the other on the top of the embankment.
Those flows are then enticed along the two avenues stone rows( there may be four such rows?)
The stone rows are both to keep the upgraded flows on track , as well as uprating the potentials from the crossing at ninty degrees to each stones locations.
It means that the location of each stone is simle...X marks the spot.
That is exactly the self same at Carnac, it is the crossing geometry that determines each and every stones exact location, and why the long alignments seem to meander somewhat.
I have been to Carnac and checked this, but no way was I about to draw it all out.
I would really appreciate help with this, instead of negativety.
I can then plot out Silbury hill, silbaby hill, and WKLB and show how those are symbiotically involved as is the sanctuary and whatever is at the end of the other avenue( s)
It is all simple( K.I.S.S)
But bizzarely complex overall.
Once I get going it will be difficult to keep up with Me as I am able to instantly modulate about different detectable phenonoma, but I will not be distracted into looking for buried bars of soap.
Keeping on focus with all of this is difficult enough whilst still trying to survive with a high street shop as I am.
Dowsing is about the symbiotic recognition by the living dowser and the signals that they recognise, a kind of two way radio /antennae system, there is so much noise about with other signals( especially now)
I would have been very happy in the neolithic time to be doing nothing other than connecting to the universes/earths memory fields.
I wonder if there were skeptics hiding bars of soap then????
cropredy
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AngieLake
Joined:
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Messages: 550
from Newton Abbot, Devon
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| Posted 27-02-2013 at 10:56
Quote:
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On 2013-02-27 08:37, tiompan wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-02-27 00:50, AngieLake wrote:
It would be good if Tiompan could try dowsing himself with L-shaped rods, though I doubt they'd work for him if he is so sceptical.
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Angie , what makes you think I haven't dowsed ? Beacuse I am sceptical .?
I have mentioned a couple of times here that like many people who are sceptical , I dowsed in the early 70's , maybe even before you . Rods open and closed ,at various points the pendulum went from left to right , right to left , clockwise and anti-clockwise . I have asked here on a couple of occasions , is that dowsing ? but no reply .This was attempted over a period of years ,my son probably thinks I'm a dowser as he asked to borrow the rods to find a drain at the farm .
"....."
Seeing as you asked and I replied maybe you can answer one of my questions .
Is using the rods/pendulums and discover they move as I described above and over a period of time , dowsing ?
George
Hi Tiompan
I had no idea you'd dowsed before (I usually avoid the dowsing threads as they get so complicated!), and it didn't seem to come across that way because of your attitude.
You certainly did it much earlier than I did... during the 70s I was engrossed in bringing up three children and running homes in various towns as my ex (a Policeman) often moved in his job.
(I missed some good site opportunities while living in Newquay.)
I didn't meet these dowsers who taught me til 1997, when I had more time to focus on the subject.
(I never did get much success with pendulum dowsing, btw. I prefer the L-shaped rods, which are good for archaeological dowsing, and need them to point the way when ritual movement dowsing. 'Earth energies' began to bore me, so I started to ask if I could be shown where people who built these monuments moved in their most important ceremonies. Obviously cannot prove these results, but they do sometimes lead on to finding another feature of a site or highlight a focal point in a circle, or in the landscape.)
Well, if you found that the rods moved for you you've certainly got a reaction and would be a good dowser if you found a project to experiment with.
Have you not tried to prove this to yourself over the years if you are able to get a reaction? You and your son could surely do something together?
I'd say 'you can dowse', but 'you are a dowser' if you have done a few exercises that are meaningful.
I think it is a shame that you had been so dismissive of Paul Daw's work at Stanton Drew. I imagine he'd be quite sad to hear that.
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AngieLake
Joined:
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Messages: 550
from Newton Abbot, Devon
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| Posted 27-02-2013 at 11:10
[quote]
On 2013-02-27 03:15, PeteG wrote:
Hi Tiompan,
8 years ago my friend Jim Gunter geophys'd the south west quadrant of Avebury circle.
Dowser Shaun Ogbourne did a test and they matched the results.
Jim threw open a challenge to other dowsers to try to see if they could find anything that matched.
No one has bothered to take up the challenge.
It seems to be beneath Pro-Dowsers.
here's the pdf of the quadrant
http://www.peteglastonbury.plus.com/SW%20Quadrant%20Dowsing%20plot.PDF
If any dowser would like to try and plot what they find we would be most interested in matching the results with the geophys.
PeteG
Hi Pete
I'd not heard about this before, and certainly wouldn't class myself as a 'Pro' dowser. I just do it occasionally as a hobby, (though more frequently between 1997 and 2009, working in a group, doing archaeological dowsing once a week as well as travelling around Britain).
I've dowsed some parts of Avebury, but I did ritual movement* dowsing there, so could send you patterns of what I'd found at 1)W.Kennet Avenue; 2) between the Z-feature and the Obelisk; 3) coming in through the southern entrance; and 4) the area around the Cove.
If I'm coming up to Avebury again in summer I'll let you know and maybe can have a crack at the SW quadrant. (Trouble is, there are always loads of visitors there and I find that off-putting. One evening might be best, I guess, with just the sheep for company!
Oh - and being watched by someone as part of an 'experiment' would be extremely off-putting!)
*If you've not read the other comments on this thread, I mean "asking to be shown the pattern of movement of the builders of these monuments during ceremonies at the height of the sites' importance". (Yes, I know...  )
Collected evidence from all over Britain since 2000 when I got my old Ford Ka, which has now done 108K!
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tiompan
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| Posted 27-02-2013 at 11:27
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Hi Tiompan
I had no idea you'd dowsed before (I usually avoid the dowsing threads as they get so complicated!), and it didn't seem to come across that way because of your attitude.
You certainly did it much earlier than I did... during the 70s I was engrossed in bringing up three children and running homes in various towns as my ex (a Policeman) often moved in his job.
(I missed some good site opportunities while living in Newquay.)
I didn't meet these dowsers who taught me til 1997, when I had more time to focus on the subject.
(I never did get much success with pendulum dowsing, btw. I prefer the L-shaped rods, which are good for archaeological dowsing, and need them to point the way when ritual movement dowsing. 'Earth energies' began to bore me, so I started to ask if I could be shown where people who built these monuments moved in their most important ceremonies. Obviously cannot prove these results, but they do sometimes lead on to finding another feature of a site or highlight a focal point in a circle, or in the landscape.)
Well, if you found that the rods moved for you you've certainly got a reaction and would be a good dowser if you found a project to experiment with.
Have you not tried to prove this to yourself over the years if you are able to get a reaction? You and your son could surely do something together?
I'd say 'you can dowse', but 'you are a dowser' if you have done a few exercises that are meaningful.
I think it is a shame that you had been so dismissive of Paul Daw's work at Stanton Drew. I imagine he'd be quite sad to hear that.
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Angie , the reason I used the pendudlum was entirely due to Lethbridge and his rates .
Over the years I have tried dowsing with rods at "ancient sites " and also took notes (with both rods and pendulums ) , this was critical for the lethbridge stuff .
I think you have answered one of the questions "Is using the rods/pendulums and discover they move as I described above and over a period of time , dowsing ? " with a yes , if not could you please let me know ? ( I am not ignoring you also answered " do dowsers debate etc .)
If I was dowsing , why should I consider that the reactions I was getting were anything to do with me recording/receiving signals when there is a much simpler explanation for the movements of the rods etc ?
I have never considered myself a "dowser" although I may have done some meaningful exercises .Would it be fair to assume I am somewhere between a total beginner and a novice ?. If so this leads to another question that I asked earlier and never received a K.I.S.S. or any type of reply "How can you differentiate between a dowser and a charlatan ? " This could be seen as me being the charlatan , in the field or providing charts /recordings /info , or the charlatan could be seen as being somebody who is simply that, pretending to dowse .
George
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tiompan
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| Posted 27-02-2013 at 11:40
ooops sorry Angie forgot to mention Paul Daw . The comment about the dowsing and magnetometry comparison being "not good " is taken form "Stanton Drew 2010 geophysical survey and other archaeological investigations " pp71 and 83-84 . It also provides a visual comparison .
I was no more scathing . My further comments were actually along the lines if he had been successful and could apply to any dowser or anyone having an "impression of x " at a monument .
George
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cropredy
Joined:
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Messages: 5525
from Oxon
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| Posted 27-02-2013 at 18:33
Does anyone know how Richard hoaglands ACCUTRON device works.
From what He describes its sounds as though He is plotting the same fields as dowsers.
http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2013/02/RIR-130224.php
cropredy
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Andy B
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Messages: 6992
from Surrey, UK
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| Posted 27-02-2013 at 18:51
The above report linked here
http://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=152
http://www.bacas.org.uk.gridhosted.co.uk/HTMLwebsite/HTMLindex.html
John Daw has also published dowsing results from Bathampton that BACAS investigated
http://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=663
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