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Spot the constellations... |
bat400
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from South Central Indiana, US
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|  Posted 26-02-2013 at 20:44
Sorry, I'm an engineer, I can't help it.
If it's supposed to be a star map I expect to sEe one, and because I have no reason to believe that ancient people were incapable, I,d expect it to be accurate and that the relative sizes of the holes have a meaning.
Like "alignments" I don't buy It if you have to throw out part of the data and only include the structure that proves your point when equally welL defined structures must be defined as noise.
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tiompan
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| Posted 26-02-2013 at 20:51
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On 2013-02-26 20:44, bat400 wrote:
Sorry, I'm an engineer, I can't help it.
If it's supposed to be a star map I expect to sEe one, and because I have no reason to believe that ancient people were incapable, I,d expect it to be accurate and that the relative sizes of the holes have a meaning.
Like "alignments" I don't buy It if you have to throw out part of the data and only include the structure that proves your point when equally welL defined structures must be defined as noise.
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Who are you apologising to ? It's nonsense .
They realised that eventually and the astronomy stuff is no longer mentioned .
George
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sem
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from Bridgend,S.Wales
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| Posted 26-02-2013 at 21:04
There you are Neil, and if you look hard enough (ie use your imagination) you can also spot Ursa Minor in the correct relative position.
[ This message was edited by: Andy B on 2013-02-27 20:26 ]
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Runemage
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| Posted 26-02-2013 at 21:15
It's probably better all round if the image is here on the forum Sem, it keeps the discussions easier to track 
Rune
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davidmorgan
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| Posted 26-02-2013 at 21:39
Hi Sem. Please can you sign up with http://www.imageshack.us which is free storage for photos. Then you can upload the photo to there and then link to it from the forum. Rather than just dumping it on the MP site page, which is not really the place for it.
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PeteG
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|  Posted 27-02-2013 at 03:05
not a constellation but that one near the middle looks like zubeneschamali
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Martin_L
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| Posted 27-02-2013 at 08:44
For sure. That's very obvious. 
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On 2013-02-27 03:05, PeteG wrote:
not a constellation but that one near the middle looks like zubeneschamali
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davidmorgan
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| Posted 27-02-2013 at 08:56
I hadn't heard of Zubeneschamali before, had to look it up, and then misread it and thought you'd found a variable cup-mark!
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Runemage
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| Posted 27-02-2013 at 19:39
Sem's image from the sitepage
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Andy B
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| Posted 27-02-2013 at 20:26
Rune used http://photobucket.com which is equally good (thanks)
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aknifethatfellfromthesky
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| Posted 27-02-2013 at 22:33
i too could find patterns within the overall example. however i have to ask myself why would ancient folk render some constellations as accurate, and then confuse the picture by placing randomly, 'made up stars' willy nilly, here and there? the ancients knew a fair bit about astronomy, of that there is no doubt. it could be said it played a substantial role in the lives of the peoples. i believe that a genuine star map would need to be much better rendered to be of any use practically or otherwise. after all we're umhing and arhing about it. Dx
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sem
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from Bridgend,S.Wales
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| Posted 28-02-2013 at 18:39
Hi Rune
Thanks for putting that up, I haven't had time recently to mess with things like photoshack and other storage sites, plus I wrongly assumed that a MegP Url would work and (as I said to David) as I was not the owner of the original image by keeping it on MegP at least PaulM would get the credit. Apologies all round.
That said, the post was meant to show that our brains are "hard-wired" to find and remember patterns of all forms, even if they don't exist. In this case, as The Plough is the only constellation I can spot easily, thus I "recognised" it. Similarly, I keep seeing my cat who died last year on the rug in front of the fire, because the pattern on the rug forms a similar shape. When I lost the end of a finger it took my brain a year to "remember" it wasn't there - those with new glasses and significant lens changes may recognise this feeling when trying to walk up or down a regularly used staircase.
All maps are stylized. The best example must be the London Underground map which bears no geographical relationship to London (thus disproving the "as above so below" adage), but I'll bet that anyone who has used it recently can remember which station they used to change lines and which station was the one before they got off the train. Maybe the creators of this "starmap" just used it like commuters?
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Andy B
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| Posted 28-02-2013 at 22:23
It's not really a big deal Sem, don't worry about it. You can embed Portal images in the forum but you need to use the link to the actual image rather than the link to the page.
Cheers
[ This message was edited by: Andy B on 2013-03-01 15:16 ]
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davidmorgan
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from The New Forest
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| Posted 28-02-2013 at 22:35
I think this cup-mark stuff is all a bit primitive. OK, some of the spirals and concentric rings are nice British rock art, but where are the representative carvings? The guys in the Near East where doing some really nice stuff while the guys in Britain were just pecking holes. What's that all about?
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davidmorgan
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| Posted 28-02-2013 at 22:42
Look folks, I'm going to moderate my own thread here...
WARNING...
All posts on this thread not relevant to spotting patterns on the Trefael Stone will be deleted.
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Martin_L
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| Posted 28-02-2013 at 22:48
Add:
@David: just noticed. Thanks for moderating. I sigh with relief.
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davidmorgan
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| Posted 28-02-2013 at 22:58
All ideas welcome.
I think the best way is that everyone who wants to present an image of their pattern recognition should use the same template as the original graphic. Like Feanor did.
1. Copy the image down onto your computer.
2. Draw lines on it. (Or curves, what the ???).
3. Resize it to about 600 pixels across.
4. Upload your masterpiece to your favourite image storage website/cloud (see above).
5. Link the image into this forum.
Does that sound OK?
P.S. Animations especially welcome!
[ This message was edited by: davidmorgan on 2013-02-28 23:20 ]
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tiompan
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| Posted 28-02-2013 at 23:05
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On 2013-02-28 22:58, davidmorgan wrote:
All ideas welcome.
I think the best way is that everyone who wants to present an image of their pattern recognition should use the same template as the the original graphic. Like Feanor did.
1. Copy the image down onto your computer.
2. Draw lines on it. (Or curves, what the ???).
3. Upload your masterpiece to your favourite image storage website/cloud (see above).
4. Link the image into this forum.
Does that sound OK?
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I would like to have seen ( as opposed to have read the non workable description ), the views of the mysterious "astronomers " who came up with the idea in the first place .Their names would also be of interest .
George
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davidmorgan
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| Posted 01-03-2013 at 11:22
"it is now considered by several astronomers that the distribution of the cupmarks may represent a section of the night sky that includes the star constellations of Cassiopeia, Orion, Sirius and of course the North Star."
I think they just made it up. Someone seems to think that Sirius is a constellation?
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tiompan
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| Posted 01-03-2013 at 11:29
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On 2013-03-01 11:22, davidmorgan wrote:
"it is now considered by several astronomers that the distribution of the cupmarks may represent a section of the night sky that includes the star constellations of Cassiopeia, Orion, Sirius and of course the North Star."
I think they just made it up. Someone seems to think that Sirius is a constellation?
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I'm sure they did . Someone who had a bit of an interest in astroonomy probably made an off hand comment then bosh . You have only to read the responses to the questions posed that they got themselves into a corner for the sake of a bit of publicity . The idea quite rightly long been binned . It's fine cup marked ex capstone with some interesting archaeology associated with it , why gild the lily ?
George
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