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The Megalithic Portal and Megalith Map : Index >>
Sacred Sites and Megalithic Mysteries >> circle>square
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rogeralbin
Joined:
08-10-2010
Messages: 196
 OFF-Line
|  Posted 14-01-2013 at 11:02
Quote:
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On 2013-01-14 10:09, tiompan wrote:
Quote:
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On 2013-01-14 09:36, rogeralbin wrote
George,
Just an observation on this comment, telluric flows are time variable and will vary by day,night,month,season, year etc, to dismiss it as unrepeatable after retrail of some random time period is likely to be simplistic in the extreme.
Rog
[ This message was edited by: rogeralbin on 2013-01-14 09:46 ]
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Roger , dowsers claim to find the same results indicating a non -random influence but they also claim that the influence can be variable and non repeatable .In the first case it should be repeatable under test conditions ,this doesn't happen . In the second case there can be no repeatable test and we can only wonder at the cause . From random movements of rods we are given fantastical explanations with no supporting evidence and when simpler explanations are available . Telluric currents are recordable but we don't find dowsers producing the same results of the recordings .
George
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George,
I am not convinced that all dowsers are looking for the same things, however I have seen different people have awareness of the same phenomena although not perhaps in an identical fashion, ie individual sensetivity.
I also do not hold with the second statement that there can be no repeatable test on variables and that we can only wonder at the cause. That is simply your opinion based on lack of understanding of the time period required for the event to reoccur further blinkering the comprehension of the seasonal focus of some localaties.
Also don't fixate on rods, the tingling of the skin or rise and fall of body hair work too, "My hair stood on end!" why? because I sensed it.
Rog
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tiompan
Joined:
09-01-2005
Messages: 2708
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| Posted 14-01-2013 at 11:25
Quote:
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On 2013-01-14 11:02, rogeralbin wrote:
Quote:
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On 2013-01-14 10:09, tiompan wrote:
Quote:
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On 2013-01-14 09:36, rogeralbin wrote
George,
Just an observation on this comment, telluric flows are time variable and will vary by day,night,month,season, year etc, to dismiss it as unrepeatable after retrail of some random time period is likely to be simplistic in the extreme.
Rog
[ This message was edited by: rogeralbin on 2013-01-14 09:46 ]
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Roger , dowsers claim to find the same results indicating a non -random influence but they also claim that the influence can be variable and non repeatable .In the first case it should be repeatable under test conditions ,this doesn't happen . In the second case there can be no repeatable test and we can only wonder at the cause . From random movements of rods we are given fantastical explanations with no supporting evidence and when simpler explanations are available . Telluric currents are recordable but we don't find dowsers producing the same results of the recordings .
George
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George,
I am not convinced that all dowsers are looking for the same things, however I have seen different people have awareness of the same phenomena although not perhaps in an identical fashion, ie individual sensetivity.
I also do not hold with the second statement that there can be no repeatable test on variables and that we can only wonder at the cause. That is simply your opinion based on lack of understanding of the time period required for the event to reoccur further blinkering the comprehension of the seasonal focus of some localaties.
Also don't fixate on rods, the tingling of the skin or rise and fall of body hair work too, "My hair stood on end!" why? because I sensed it.
Rog
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Roger , dowsers may not be looking for the same thing . I am concerned with their claims and what they can actually find .Of course rods , hands , pendulums etc don't matter , it's results . Yes , by all means let's test when there are variables , however I didn't feel that would have been fair on the dowsers , but it wouldn't rule out wondering at the cause suggested by the dowser .
George
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tiompan
Joined:
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Messages: 2708
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| Posted 14-01-2013 at 11:32
Quote:
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On 2013-01-14 11:01, Dowser wrote:
There is some mix of two questions in our discuss,I'm afraid..
1) Were megalithic structures build on particular points of ''earth field''?
2)Is dowsing a useful metod in archeological research?
ad1)--Absolutely,yes.
ad2) Maybe in some events..but georadar seems to be better.
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for 1) we are relying on dowsers reactions at megalithic sites , these same reactions are found at non megalithic sites . Why should we accept these reactions as being a reliable guide when they have failed to produce any type of evidence ?
2) It has been tried many times and has not produced the results to make it worth the candle .Dowsers do not come up with useful info at archaeological sites .
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rogeralbin
Joined:
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Messages: 196
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| Posted 14-01-2013 at 11:54
Quote:
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On 2013-01-14 11:25, tiompan wrote:
Quote:
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On 2013-01-14 11:02, rogeralbin wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-01-14 10:09, tiompan wrote:
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Roger , dowsers may not be looking for the same thing . I am concerned with their claims and what they can actually find .Of course rods , hands , pendulums etc don't matter , it's results . Yes , by all means let's test when there are variables , however I didn't feel that would have been fair on the dowsers , but it wouldn't rule out wondering at the cause suggested by the dowser .
George
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George,
My brief guess to the time variables would be the annual being Solar, others Lunar synodic, Venus synodic etc.
Rog
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rogeralbin
Joined:
08-10-2010
Messages: 196
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| Posted 14-01-2013 at 12:04
Quote:
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On 2013-01-14 11:32, tiompan wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2013-01-14 11:01, Dowser wrote:
There is some mix of two questions in our discuss,I'm afraid..
1) Were megalithic structures build on particular points of ''earth field''?
2)Is dowsing a useful metod in archeological research?
ad1)--Absolutely,yes.
ad2) Maybe in some events..but georadar seems to be better.
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|
for 1) we are relying on dowsers reactions at megalithic sites , these same reactions are found at non megalithic sites . Why should we accept these reactions as being a reliable guide when they have failed to produce any type of evidence ?
2) It has been tried many times and has not produced the results to make it worth the candle .Dowsers do not come up with useful info at archaeological sites .
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George,
1 Would it be fair to say these reactions are found at ALL megalithic sites but not all other places?
2 My point is if a site focused on the Equinox is examined on a January afternoon what would it be reasonable to expect to find? When I examined my switched off laptop this morning, it was not doing much.
rog.
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Dowser
Joined:
06-12-2008
Messages: 999
from North-East Poland
OFF-Line
| Posted 14-01-2013 at 12:04
:
Quote:
|
On 2013-01-14 11:01, Dowser wrote:
There is some mix of two questions in our discuss,I'm afraid..
1) Were megalithic structures build on particular points of ''earth field''?
2)Is dowsing a useful metod in archeological research?
ad1)--Absolutely,yes.
ad2) Maybe in some events..but georadar seems to be better.
|
|
for 1) we are relying on dowsers reactions at megalithic sites , these same reactions are found at non megalithic sites . Why should we accept these reactions as being a reliable guide when they have failed to produce any type of evidence ?
2) It has been tried many times and has not produced the results to make it worth the candle .Dowsers do not come up with useful info at archaeological sites .
[/quote]
In random site pattern of lines can be regular (rectangular network),or particular.On megalithic site there are particular patterns only.
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tiompan
Joined:
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Messages: 2708
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| Posted 14-01-2013 at 12:23
Quote:
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On 2013-01-14 12:04, rogeralbin wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2013-01-14 11:32, tiompan wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2013-01-14 11:01, Dowser wrote:
There is some mix of two questions in our discuss,I'm afraid..
1) Were megalithic structures build on particular points of ''earth field''?
2)Is dowsing a useful metod in archeological research?
ad1)--Absolutely,yes.
ad2) Maybe in some events..but georadar seems to be better.
|
|
for 1) we are relying on dowsers reactions at megalithic sites , these same reactions are found at non megalithic sites . Why should we accept these reactions as being a reliable guide when they have failed to produce any type of evidence ?
2) It has been tried many times and has not produced the results to make it worth the candle .Dowsers do not come up with useful info at archaeological sites .
|
|
George,
1 Would it be fair to say these reactions are found at ALL megalithic sites but not all other places?
2 My point is if a site focused on the Equinox is examined on a January afternoon what would it be reasonable to expect to find? When I examined my switched off laptop this morning, it was not doing much.
rog.
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Roger , re 1) the data is coming from dowsers who would tend to go to "ancient sites" rather than ,say , land fill sites .
Simply because someone has a reaction at a megalithic site doesn't mean that the reaction is entirely due to the site . Hairs are more likely to stand on the back of the neck in the crypt of a church at midnight rather than shopping malls at midday , this tells us more about the human reactions than the churches or malls .
2) If you visit an equinox aligned site at any month other than equinox ,the alignment for equinox would still be obvious ,you don't have to se it to appreciate it will happen i.e. it is predictable , the same almost applies to fallible technology .
George
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cropredy
Joined:
01-01-2006
Messages: 5599
from Oxon
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| Posted 14-01-2013 at 12:54
Quote:
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On 2013-01-14 10:37, tiompan wrote:
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When dowsing You concentrate upon a specific...if I were looking for a stream of water I would be locked onto the recognition of what a stream of water is, I may walk right over a roman camp, a neolithic henge, a beat up old ford cortina.
There are ever so many things underground, but it is not things I focus upon, hence I am not interested in going and finding buried buckets like some buffoons labour on about.
cropredy
[/quote]
Lethbridge claimed his pendulum "rates" could distinguish between different elements and even concepts . As can be imagined this was never proven .
Similarly you continue to make your tiresome claims with nothing to support them . If you can't or won't demonstrate these "abilities " then don't expect anything other than incredulity from the majority .
[/quote]
"Your tiresome claims"
Pot calling kettle black.
Except I have more respect for You and all other sight based people, I realise their limitations , and would never be so EGO bound as to say what You do ...over and over and over again.
Here's another TIRESOME remark I have had to say countless times.
THIS IS THE PART OF THIS FORUM FOR THOSE WHO DOWSE OR HUG THE STONES ETC.
sorry for shouting, but I assume some are deaf ?
The reasons I keep butting out of here is due to such as YOUR tiresome offensive remarks insinuating that dowsers can't do what they say...based on an assumption that they don't dig up ancient things.
cropredy
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cropredy
Joined:
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Messages: 5599
from Oxon
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| Posted 14-01-2013 at 13:04
The geometry of universe is a fixed geometry.
It creates similer repeatable , though always fractionally different zones of compression, these occur omni present, many of these zones here in the UK where practible have constructions of mostly megalithic and later norman churchs upon them.
I do know such sites have been removed, and where churchs have eitherfd burn't down etc, or been moved, and the geometry is still there exactly the same.
The multi variable flows are something seperate, but also compress relative to the geometry, this varies in dinural /bi-weekly/lunar/seasonal and many larger time phases, and the dominant cross features created by the flows within their circulations do vary over larger time scales, and IMHO explains why additional and often offset aisle have been later added.
cropredy
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rogeralbin
Joined:
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Messages: 196
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| Posted 14-01-2013 at 13:07
[/quote]
Roger , re 1) the data is coming from dowsers who would tend to go to "ancient sites" rather than ,say , land fill sites .
Simply because someone has a reaction at a megalithic site doesn't mean that the reaction is entirely due to the site . Hairs are more likely to stand on the back of the neck in the crypt of a church at midnight rather than shopping malls at midday , this tells us more about the human reactions than the churches or malls .
2) If you visit an equinox aligned site at any month other than equinox ,the alignment for equinox would still be obvious ,you don't have to se it to appreciate it will happen i.e. it is predictable , the same almost applies to fallible technology .
George
[/quote]
George,
1. Whats a midden? The anolagy with the church rests more with my arguement of the location of ancient churches on megalithic sites.
2. But George you apparently do have dowse to appreciate it happens.
Rog.
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tiompan
Joined:
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Messages: 2708
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| Posted 14-01-2013 at 13:22
"dowsers can't do what they say "
cropredy
What can dowsers do ?
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cropredy
Joined:
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Messages: 5599
from Oxon
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| Posted 14-01-2013 at 13:28
Quote:
|
On 2013-01-14 12:04, rogeralbin wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2013-01-14 11:32, tiompan wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2013-01-14 11:01, Dowser wrote:
There is some mix of two questions in our discuss,I'm afraid..
1) Were megalithic structures build on particular points of ''earth field''?
2)Is dowsing a useful metod in archeological research?
ad1)--Absolutely,yes.
ad2) Maybe in some events..but georadar seems to be better.
|
|
for 1) we are relying on dowsers reactions at megalithic sites , these same reactions are found at non megalithic sites . Why should we accept these reactions as being a reliable guide when they have failed to produce any type of evidence ?
2) It has been tried many times and has not produced the results to make it worth the candle .Dowsers do not come up with useful info at archaeological sites .
|
|
George,
1 Would it be fair to say these reactions are found at ALL megalithic sites but not all other places?
2 My point is if a site focused on the Equinox is examined on a January afternoon what would it be reasonable to expect to find? When I examined my switched off laptop this morning, it was not doing much.
rog.
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The megalithic sites, as are the later Norman churches are not located for visual effects or occurances.
I have provided many times the Britarch report of the bearings of all the church's in England and Wales which shows how they are aligned across a range of alignments from 82 to 96 degrees I believe, and that this is a slowly moving alteration across the width of the UK, and it carries on over into such as Holland.
I can explain that by the geometry of the fixed matrix.
There are locations well known where at equinox and solstice times a near alignment occurs, but please remember that this is all occuring with never still creations, there can be no such alignment other than a fraction of a fraction of a second.
What does occur in particuler at equinox and solstices is a marked variation in the flows, they even stop( sol stice=sun still)
One of these flows is IMHO from the sun, but not in some none existant torch beam like nonesense, it is the outward radiating field of the sun, which We are not orbitting at all, each planet is downstream of the sun on it's own spiral pathway, it is the meetings of these spiral field based radiations that create light, that create all of the seasons and field based electrical switchings.
Those spirals, and the sun is upon it's own spiral are either clockwise or counter clockwise, and this is where the duality of flows commonly called Michael and Mary origonates from.
cropredy
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cropredy
Joined:
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Messages: 5599
from Oxon
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| Posted 14-01-2013 at 13:29
http://www.archaeologyuk.org/ba/ba94/feat2.shtml
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tiompan
Joined:
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| Posted 14-01-2013 at 13:34
Quote:
|
On 2013-01-14 13:07, rogeralbin wrote:
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|
Roger , re 1) the data is coming from dowsers who would tend to go to "ancient sites" rather than ,say , land fill sites .
Simply because someone has a reaction at a megalithic site doesn't mean that the reaction is entirely due to the site . Hairs are more likely to stand on the back of the neck in the crypt of a church at midnight rather than shopping malls at midday , this tells us more about the human reactions than the churches or malls .
2) If you visit an equinox aligned site at any month other than equinox ,the alignment for equinox would still be obvious ,you don't have to se it to appreciate it will happen i.e. it is predictable , the same almost applies to fallible technology .
George
[/quote]
George,
1. Whats a midden? The anolagy with the church rests more with my arguement of the location of ancient churches on megalithic sites.
2. But George you apparently do have dowse to appreciate it happens.
Rog.
[/quote]
Roger , the earth energy dowers would probably also avoid a midden , if they were of it's existence . Some churches are certainly sited on older sites but by no means all . The hairs on the back of the neck experience , as we know has nothing to do with the site but the imagination of the experiencer .If necessary it could be a morgue on an man made island or any place that excites the imagination .
I don't understand your point re. 2
What do you mean by dowse , getting a reaction from rods , pendulums, hands etc , or concentrating on a subject getting a reaction and suggesting that you have encountered the subject ?
George
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tiompan
Joined:
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Messages: 2708
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| Posted 14-01-2013 at 13:55
Quote:
|
On 2013-01-14 12:04, Dowser wrote:
:
Quote:
|
On 2013-01-14 11:01, Dowser wrote:
There is some mix of two questions in our discuss,I'm afraid..
1) Were megalithic structures build on particular points of ''earth field''?
2)Is dowsing a useful metod in archeological research?
ad1)--Absolutely,yes.
ad2) Maybe in some events..but georadar seems to be better.
|
|
for 1) we are relying on dowsers reactions at megalithic sites , these same reactions are found at non megalithic sites . Why should we accept these reactions as being a reliable guide when they have failed to produce any type of evidence ?
2) It has been tried many times and has not produced the results to make it worth the candle .Dowsers do not come up with useful info at archaeological sites .
|
|
In random site pattern of lines can be regular (rectangular network),or particular.On megalithic site there are particular patterns only.
[/quote]
That is only your experience .
Different experiences are reported from different individuals .
Spirals ,zig zags etc are reported from non megalithic sites .
George
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cropredy
Joined:
01-01-2006
Messages: 5599
from Oxon
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| Posted 14-01-2013 at 14:00
Quote:
|
On 2013-01-14 13:22, tiompan wrote:
"dowsers can't do what they say "
cropredy
What can dowsers do ?
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Everything in creation has a unique FIELD based sort of signal signature.
Dowsers can learn to recognise and switch between these individual signatures.
Some, in fact most dowsers become fixed on whatever they detect, the better more adept at the skill can switch from signals to signals, and can thus differentiate between the multitude of signals.
In the mechanical service sections of such as hospitals they have proffesional dowsing kits...as they call them.
These have suspendable pieces of such as copper/iron etc etc that are suspended on the rods to help the user to concentrate upon the signal that that particuler element, or compound of elements gives off.
That is to atune the dowser, so that if they are looking for a buried steel pipe, it is that and only that which they react to.
The ability to switch at will to whatever one has in ones memory banks is not very common, I can switch at will across a vast range.
But if I am focussed upon say following a certain flow, then it is that flow and it's unique signal pattern that I will react to, and nothing else.
I can do it with crowds of people, and can detect whoever I think of , and not react to any others.
IMHO this is how a lamb recognises it's mother amongst a herd of sheep, and the sheep recognises the lamb.
When You mentioned Lethbridge been able to determine different things at differing pendulem lengths, this is basically the reason.
When using a pendulem You are interacting with your own dual spin field, and seeking a visual answer via the pendulems movements, the rods are similer but far more direction based.
When dowsers are merely having rods cross at ninty degrees, they need some clearer thinking as they are not showing direction unless they cross over multiple times the line they encounter and mark it each time.
I am not your average dowser, that is not arrogance, I cannot find anyone even near Me, Hamish Miller was close, and We used to talk on the phone, sadly we never met , otherwise it would have helped both of us.
He hand forged His rods which mean't that His field structure was fixed in those rods, as He heated them up and hammered them, which is an whole other discussion of why those who made such knew that such as blades and axes reacted symbiotically better with that which they had made by hand within their own unique field signal field.
I find carbon fibre to be fantastic for dowsing, and use very fine diameter rods so as to have the least resistance to movement( displacement) as possible.
My rods do become ever more reactive as I use them multiple times, and I don't too much like others using mine, as their signature becomes encased in the structure .
We think via the palms of our hands, and the pendulem or rods are merely reacting to these thoughts as they go out and return.
If I want to locate a rabbit, I think only of rabbits, there are usually too many close by each other so it's confusing.
The matrix and flows I keep focussed upon are not 3D, therefore I cannot hand You them on a plate, and I cannot help but keep walking into big bloody stones or churches, they are in 3D, and have been placed to manipulate what is there in 4 and 5 D.
cropredy
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tiompan
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| Posted 14-01-2013 at 14:03
I have provided many times the Britarch report of the bearings of all the church's in England and Wales which shows how they are aligned across a range of alignments from 82 to 96 degrees
cropredy
[/quote]
All ?
You have forgotten about Ian's Cornish examples which have a mean of just over 80 degrees . Ian's findings are the results of empirical research nothing to do with dowsing .
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tiompan
Joined:
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Messages: 2708
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| Posted 14-01-2013 at 14:21
Quote:
|
On 2013-01-14 14:00, cropredy wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2013-01-14 13:22, tiompan wrote:
"dowsers can't do what they say "
cropredy
What can dowsers do ?
|
|
When You mentioned Lethbridge been able to determine different things at differing pendulem lengths, this is basically the reason.
If I want to locate a rabbit, I think only of rabbits, there are usually too many close by each other so it's confusing.
cropredy
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I mentioned Lethbridge as an example someone who made big claims but never managed to prove it .
Can dowsers find ,gold , a rabbit , rock art , Shergar , unrecorded archaeology etc , simply by dowsing ? If so , that is all they have to do to convince sceptics .
If you feel that is beneath you , you'll never convince anybody but those who have bought into the show .Until then your wasting your time continually repeating the same stuff
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rogeralbin
Joined:
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Messages: 196
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| Posted 14-01-2013 at 14:26
Quote:
|
On 2013-01-14 13:34, tiompan wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2013-01-14 13:07, rogeralbin wrote:
|
|
Roger , re 1) the data is coming from dowsers who would tend to go to "ancient sites" rather than ,say , land fill sites .
Simply because someone has a reaction at a megalithic site doesn't mean that the reaction is entirely due to the site . Hairs are more likely to stand on the back of the neck in the crypt of a church at midnight rather than shopping malls at midday , this tells us more about the human reactions than the churches or malls .
2) If you visit an equinox aligned site at any month other than equinox ,the alignment for equinox would still be obvious ,you don't have to se it to appreciate it will happen i.e. it is predictable , the same almost applies to fallible technology .
George
|
|
George,
1. Whats a midden? The anolagy with the church rests more with my arguement of the location of ancient churches on megalithic sites.
2. But George you apparently do have dowse to appreciate it happens.
Rog.
[/quote]
Roger , the earth energy dowers would probably also avoid a midden , if they were of it's existence . Some churches are certainly sited on older sites but by no means all . The hairs on the back of the neck experience , as we know has nothing to do with the site but the imagination of the experiencer .If necessary it could be a morgue on an man made island or any place that excites the imagination .
I don't understand your point re. 2
What do you mean by dowse , getting a reaction from rods , pendulums, hands etc , or concentrating on a subject getting a reaction and suggesting that you have encountered the subject ?
George
[/quote]
George,
What I was attempting to convey is you say "it is possible to see how a visual alignment works even at a different time of year.". Granted, what I am saying is that dowsed configurations zeroing in on a particular spot on a given day can not be seen, they have to be dowsed in the same way as you can not hear a visual alignment.
I have tried this on some ten or so friends and nine of them reacted in the same places. Why does anyone who has had an electric shock believe humans can not feel electricity?
Rog
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tiompan
Joined:
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Messages: 2708
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| Posted 14-01-2013 at 15:17
Quote:
|
On 2013-01-14 14:26, rogeralbin wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2013-01-14 13:34, tiompan wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2013-01-14 13:07, rogeralbin wrote:
|
|
Roger , re 1) the data is coming from dowsers who would tend to go to "ancient sites" rather than ,say , land fill sites .
Simply because someone has a reaction at a megalithic site doesn't mean that the reaction is entirely due to the site . Hairs are more likely to stand on the back of the neck in the crypt of a church at midnight rather than shopping malls at midday , this tells us more about the human reactions than the churches or malls .
2) If you visit an equinox aligned site at any month other than equinox ,the alignment for equinox would still be obvious ,you don't have to se it to appreciate it will happen i.e. it is predictable , the same almost applies to fallible technology .
George
|
|
George,
1. Whats a midden? The anolagy with the church rests more with my arguement of the location of ancient churches on megalithic sites.
2. But George you apparently do have dowse to appreciate it happens.
Rog.
|
|
Roger , the earth energy dowers would probably also avoid a midden , if they were of it's existence . Some churches are certainly sited on older sites but by no means all . The hairs on the back of the neck experience , as we know has nothing to do with the site but the imagination of the experiencer .If necessary it could be a morgue on an man made island or any place that excites the imagination .
I don't understand your point re. 2
What do you mean by dowse , getting a reaction from rods , pendulums, hands etc , or concentrating on a subject getting a reaction and suggesting that you have encountered the subject ?
George
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George,
What I was attempting to convey is you say "it is possible to see how a visual alignment works even at a different time of year.". Granted, what I am saying is that dowsed configurations zeroing in on a particular spot on a given day can not be seen, they have to be dowsed in the same way as you can not hear a visual alignment.
I have tried this on some ten or so friends and nine of them reacted in the same places. Why does anyone who has had an electric shock believe humans can not feel electricity?
Rog
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Roger , we can predict the effect of electricity on humans from mild tingling to frying .
What is going on when an individual dowses ? They can report , or we can see , or experience it ourselves if we are the dowser , the movement of rods in a particular manner at a particular spot , this may be repeated or fail to be repeated by the same individual or others at the same or another time . Why do some create fantastical explanations for these effects when there is no evidence to support them and there are much simpler explanations . Is it really that much different from believing that spirits are the cause of the movement on a ouija board . Do dowsers claim to be capable of finding that which is hidden ? , if so then to prove their case all they have to do is to do that under controlled conditions .This ,they have continually failed to do .
George
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