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The Megalithic Portal and Megalith Map : Index >>
Sacred Sites and Megalithic Mysteries >> Castlerigg, a Barra grave, sunrise &
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Castlerigg, a Barra grave, sunrise & |
cropredy
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|  Posted 19-01-2013 at 17:30
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On 2013-01-19 10:40, tiompan wrote:
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On 2013-01-19 08:29, cropredy wrote:
Typical dowsing stuff , somebody gets a reaction from rods (or hands , pendulum etc ) and believes it is meaningful /energy lines .
George
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IMHO,
The above is a typical rigid skeptic reply, determined to resist the unseen.
I thought I answered adequately, and quite lengthily.
The link is not TYPICAL dowsing stuff at all, it is encouraging to see someone else closing in , and having the ability I lack to better describe.
The IMHO takes away the offense that Your reply contains.
cropredy
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You still didn't answer .
"And why the question ?"
You fail to understand that people are not impressed by rods (hands , pendulums ) moving as many have experienced it for themselves .
There could be many reasons to explain this and one very simple one but some prefer to imagine that it is the due to "earth energies " others that they are getting a response from thay are they are concentrating on . There is no evidence for the former and the latter could be easily shown to be true simply by finding stuff ,but we know despite large numbers of claimants that they don't hence the former has become safer ground as it is unfalsifiable .
There is plenty of scope for testing the claims but they never do better than expected by chance .
Simply because rods move is not to convince anyone of anything other than the rods moved . Simply finding something buried in a football field , which is hardly beyond the usual claims is all that would be needed to convince , it hasn't happened , yet .
George
[/quote]
No comment
The thread is Anews, not about anything else.
cropredy
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tiompan
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| Posted 19-01-2013 at 17:39
Quote:
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On 2013-01-19 17:30, cropredy wrote:
Quote:
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On 2013-01-19 10:40, tiompan wrote:
Quote:
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On 2013-01-19 08:29, cropredy wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-01-18 22:50, tiompan wrote:
[quote]
On 2013-01-18 22:29, cropredy wrote:
See if You notice any similarities to how I describe things in this link?????
http://thelamplight.ca/schematicgod/dowsing.htm
cropredy
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Typical dowsing stuff , somebody gets a reaction from rods (or hands , pendulum etc ) and believes it is meaningful /energy lines .
George
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IMHO,
The above is a typical rigid skeptic reply, determined to resist the unseen.
I thought I answered adequately, and quite lengthily.
The link is not TYPICAL dowsing stuff at all, it is encouraging to see someone else closing in , and having the ability I lack to better describe.
The IMHO takes away the offense that Your reply contains.
cropredy
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You still didn't answer .
"And why the question ?"
You fail to understand that people are not impressed by rods (hands , pendulums ) moving as many have experienced it for themselves .
There could be many reasons to explain this and one very simple one but some prefer to imagine that it is the due to "earth energies " others that they are getting a response from thay are they are concentrating on . There is no evidence for the former and the latter could be easily shown to be true simply by finding stuff ,but we know despite large numbers of claimants that they don't hence the former has become safer ground as it is unfalsifiable .
There is plenty of scope for testing the claims but they never do better than expected by chance .
Simply because rods move is not to convince anyone of anything other than the rods moved . Simply finding something buried in a football field , which is hardly beyond the usual claims is all that would be needed to convince , it hasn't happened , yet .
George
[/quote]
No comment
The thread is Anews, not about anything else.
cropredy
[/quote]
You seem to have forgotten that it was you asked "Ever considered that near by variant ancient monuments may be symbiotically related???
Like Nelsons column to bucks house? "
And I asked why you asked the question , but you never explained .
George
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AnewMerlinian
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| Posted 19-01-2013 at 21:27
@rogeralbin
Done, and thank you :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orkney_vole
Indeed interesting.
I, (and i'm sure others), have thought that a coastal migration of peoples from the Mediterranean region was possible . Perhaps the wave which carried the vole couldn't displace the people already on mainland Britain & Ireland ; but were able to establish themselves in the Orkneys . There is also the possibility that these people were more widespread in the area, but were also careful to exclude the vole from some of their travels.
If they brought with them the rectangular form, cultural cross-pollination may have resulted in its inclusion in the Castlerigg and Brat's Hill rings, the Barra grave, and Leacach an Tigh Chloiche.
[ This message was edited by: AnewMerlinian on 2013-01-19 21:28 ]
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AnewMerlinian
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| Posted 19-01-2013 at 21:39
@ tiompan
I was basing my description on a plan i found in Prof. Thom's book, were he finds an elliptical form linking four of the orthostats . If it is understood as a chambered cairn, all good . Does this mean that these rectangular shapes were the chambers ? If so that could be a lead as to their symbolic purpose in connection with the rings.
On another matter, would you be aware of a good plan for the Brat's Hill ring ? I am curious whether the rectangle was set in the/a flattened side, and whether it was at a slight angle.
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tiompan
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| Posted 20-01-2013 at 10:51
Anew , Thom does describe the site as “ a mixture of open kists and upright stones “ and it is the latter that is an ellipse ,he would have been aware of the site being a chambered cairn ,the excavation predated his book . http://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/catalogue/adsdata/arch-352-1/dissemination/pdf/vol_082/82_001_049.pdf
Brat’s Hill is on Burn Moor where there are five stone circles .The plan is of Brat’s Hill
http://www.pastpresented.ukart.com/eskdale/burnmoorcircle.gif
George
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tiompan
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| Posted 20-01-2013 at 11:15
Sorry Rune , I missed this from earlier . There isn't much to learn , just hold the rods walk about and they'll move , it works first time for nearly everybody .Yes when the rods move and pundulums swing it is intriguing and you wonder what is going on .But have you ever concentrated on say lead or any other elemnet or a missing and found it ? Have you tried Lethbridge's "rates " and discovered they work or has anybody done so ? What happens is that the rods move and various explanations are given with no evidence to support them .The planchette on a ouija board moves around with little obvious physical effort should we believe that the energy is coming from "subtle energies" or spirits ?
When you check out claims for finding archaeological stuff ,you soon discover that all is not as siimple as the claims make out .Most often dowsers calim to have found something which on further investigation proves negative we have seen this often on the box . If something is found it is in much the same circumstances as a good guess which archaeologists make all the time when deciding to dig at a particular spot i.e. it is the area where there have been other finds or there are tell tale signs . Non dowsers find stuff all the time they are not relying energies but experience
George
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aknifethatfellfromthesky
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| Posted 20-01-2013 at 18:52
DOWSING; a short story. i did a geology degree some years back at manchester uni and part of the course was learning geophysical and remote sensing techniques. the esteemed doctor of the course was at the top of his game in the world of academia. he was adept at using all the techniques/machines/mathematical models to search for subsurface geological structures. he was highly sort after by world leading (destroying imho) petrochemical companies and got paid a fortune. he mainly used dowsing. true story. Dx
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tiompan
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| Posted 20-01-2013 at 19:41
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On 2013-01-20 18:52, aknifethatfellfromthesky wrote:
DOWSING; a short story. i did a geology degree some years back at manchester uni and part of the course was learning geophysical and remote sensing techniques. the esteemed doctor of the course was at the top of his game in the world of academia. he was adept at using all the techniques/machines/mathematical models to search for subsurface geological structures. he was highly sort after by world leading (destroying imho) petrochemical companies and got paid a fortune. he mainly used dowsing. true story. Dx
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D , What evidence is there that the doc actually used dowsing to find anything ?
Did you ever see him find anything whilst dowsing that wouldn't have been discovered by expertise and knowledge , or did he just claim that he found stuff with dowsing ?
Do you believe that he would he have been capable of finding anything under controlled conditions ?
George
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aknifethatfellfromthesky
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| Posted 22-01-2013 at 00:32
hi george. it was common knowledge at the university. i was told these were his methods by another senior geophysics doctor, a colleauge of his, within the faculty... nobody found it very 'out there' ... it raised the odd surprised look at first but he was highly esteemed in his field. he retired the year i graduated and had been a scientist all his life. he'd been doing it throughout his career so when i was taught by him it was just established fact and nobody questioned it...suffice to say he wasn't telling the prospecting companies about his rather unorthodox methods...he was a reserved, reclusive chap, old fashioned in dress and habits, quiet and methodical and beyond intellectual. suffice to say ive done some independant research since but have come up blank so far...im afraid that that is as much as i can tell you and the well of knowledge has run dry. Dx
[ This message was edited by: aknifethatfellfromthesky on 2013-01-22 00:36 ]
[ This message was edited by: aknifethatfellfromthesky on 2013-01-22 01:04 ]
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tiompan
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| Posted 22-01-2013 at 09:51
Thanks D , once again it's anecdotal , there's doesn't seem to be any evidence to show that he found anything through dowsing , was he not just a geophysicist that dowsed ? Lots of academics or experts in their field do and believe stuff that others find incongruous , it doesn't interfere with their job and it needn't explain their success . I wonder , did he ever claim to find anything by dowsing ?
George
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Runemage
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| Posted 22-01-2013 at 14:01
Hi George,
once again it's anecdotal , there's doesn't seem to be any evidence
There never will be, you're looking in the wrong place. Could I suggest that if you want proof you're not going to find it on an internet discussion forum, so continually dismissing everyone's account as anecdote is as far as any discussion can progress.
We all know it's anecdote, and at the current levels of research as far as I'm aware nothing's been done to sway that opinion so it needs to be left up to the individual to balance the probabilities and decide if it works for them or not.
Proof, or not, will happen in the real world, via experiments etc. if anyone wants to be involved. There are no volunteers from this forum, so I suggest - again - that you contact the BSD and ask for their co-operation, as it seems it's only you who are interested in pursuing it to that degree. From my previous post,
>>>"Why don't you contact this chap and discuss his findings? You keep saying dowsers don't find anything, yet, here's an archaeologist who also dowses and has a proven record of finding things buried underground.
http://www.britishdowsers.org/whats_on/archaological_dowsing.shtml
"Don Bryan (elected Chair of the BSD Archaeology SIG in September 2011) was introduced to dowsing some 50 years ago when the Warden of Salisbury Youth Hostel demonstrated how he could trace the water pipes and buried cables around the hostel by dowsing. This one event greatly influenced Don and his dowsing interest had started.
Whilst serving with British Telecomm,[sic] Don used his dowsing skills to locate telephone cables deeply buried underground. After taking early retirement Don took a degree in archaeology at Southampton University and on completion was offered a tutor's post, teaching archaeology to mature students. Some of these students became founder members of the Hampshire Archaeological Dowsers (HADS) with Don as their Archaeological Director. From just a few members at its formation, HADS has grown in membership and reputation and now has a membership of 34. HADS is actively engaged in a programme of researching the Roman road system of Wessex and other archaeological sites in the region."
Simply finding something buried in a football field , which is hardly beyond the usual claims is all that would be needed to convince , it hasn't happened , yet .
That's probably because no-one's organised it. You'll have to do that yourself and see "<<<
Just to answer a point you raised, But have you ever concentrated on say lead or any other elemnet or a missing and found it ? Yes and yes, several times but you know as well as I do that it's anecdote and not proof, so there's no point in discussing it or suggesting it's "evidence" is there?
Anew started this thread about observations he's made and it's ended up - once again - in an endlessly futile circular argument about determining the efficacy or not of dowsing by citing examples on an internet forum. That's not to say there haven't been some very interesting contributions along the way, Dean's Professor for example, which ties in nicely with the chap I mentioned above, but an internet forum is not the place to determine proof.
Perhaps Anew's findings can be discussed now?
Rune
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tiompan
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| Posted 22-01-2013 at 14:28
Rune , if you look back over this thread you will see that it was not me who diveted it . I responded to Anew's post and his point there was nothing to do with dowsing ,that came from elsewhere ,including yourself .
There have been multiple tests for dowsing some of which have costs lots of dosh , in all cases the dowsers did no better than chance ,these tests were not anectdotal .
It is up to the dowsers to prove their case not me .
I covered the Don Bryan's claims , he has not found anything archaeological simply by dowsing that wouldnt' have been noted by more orthodox means .
If you believe you find a particular element or missing artefact by dowsing then you could a first if you could it do it under test conditions .I'd be interested in your experience . deans academic dowser might be interesting from a dowsing viewpoint if we ould discover his claims but as it is he is just another academic with a hobby .
Are you suggesting that we do not debate the efficacy of dowsing until there is some proof of it's efficacy . If so I agree .
George
Quote:
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On 2013-01-22 14:01, Runemage wrote:
Hi George,
once again it's anecdotal , there's doesn't seem to be any evidence
There never will be, you're looking in the wrong place. Could I suggest that if you want proof you're not going to find it on an internet discussion forum, so continually dismissing everyone's account as anecdote is as far as any discussion can progress.
We all know it's anecdote, and at the current levels of research as far as I'm aware nothing's been done to sway that opinion so it needs to be left up to the individual to balance the probabilities and decide if it works for them or not.
Proof, or not, will happen in the real world, via experiments etc. if anyone wants to be involved. There are no volunteers from this forum, so I suggest - again - that you contact the BSD and ask for their co-operation, as it seems it's only you who are interested in pursuing it to that degree. From my previous post,
>>>"Why don't you contact this chap and discuss his findings? You keep saying dowsers don't find anything, yet, here's an archaeologist who also dowses and has a proven record of finding things buried underground.
http://www.britishdowsers.org/whats_on/archaological_dowsing.shtml
"Don Bryan (elected Chair of the BSD Archaeology SIG in September 2011) was introduced to dowsing some 50 years ago when the Warden of Salisbury Youth Hostel demonstrated how he could trace the water pipes and buried cables around the hostel by dowsing. This one event greatly influenced Don and his dowsing interest had started.
Whilst serving with British Telecomm,[sic] Don used his dowsing skills to locate telephone cables deeply buried underground. After taking early retirement Don took a degree in archaeology at Southampton University and on completion was offered a tutor's post, teaching archaeology to mature students. Some of these students became founder members of the Hampshire Archaeological Dowsers (HADS) with Don as their Archaeological Director. From just a few members at its formation, HADS has grown in membership and reputation and now has a membership of 34. HADS is actively engaged in a programme of researching the Roman road system of Wessex and other archaeological sites in the region."
Simply finding something buried in a football field , which is hardly beyond the usual claims is all that would be needed to convince , it hasn't happened , yet .
That's probably because no-one's organised it. You'll have to do that yourself and see "<<<
Just to answer a point you raised, But have you ever concentrated on say lead or any other elemnet or a missing and found it ? Yes and yes, several times but you know as well as I do that it's anecdote and not proof, so there's no point in discussing it or suggesting it's "evidence" is there?
Anew started this thread about observations he's made and it's ended up - once again - in an endlessly futile circular argument about determining the efficacy or not of dowsing by citing examples on an internet forum. That's not to say there haven't been some very interesting contributions along the way, Dean's Professor for example, which ties in nicely with the chap I mentioned above, but an internet forum is not the place to determine proof.
Perhaps Anew's findings can be discussed now?
Rune
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cropredy
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| Posted 22-01-2013 at 16:43
This thread has not been diverted.
Anews OP was about the egg shape of castlerigg , and the apparent shape of the sun seen there at sunrise.
There are numerous other shapes to so called stone circles, which Thom tried to FIT a measure and subsequent geometry to.
I am of the opinion that light does not travel, and just who here knows what the builders at castlerigg considered about light????
I haven't been to that site, but I am convinced that the shape is determined by local counter rotating fields that are detectable.
The geometry is of universe, and the consequences will be the same in all of universe.
Light imho occurs at the interface of counter rotating fields, thus the light created by the sun/earths fields is different than the light created by the moon/earth/sun fields.
Light is not travelling in straight lines, the illusion is of that, it is the net vector between counter fields that creates light relative to the field geometries, thus at the location of castlerigg similer local and far smaller scale geometries may reflect that of the illusion of the suns shape as the fields first encounter each other.
It is the current accepted ideas about light travelling and having a speed, not most probably anything like which was considered five thousand years ago.
If You look in Avebury there are several stone circles, but the henge itself is the net local consequence shape of however many local circulations are inside and around Avebury, there will be dozens.
Most Norman churchs are designed to fit the geometry that creates the circulations, and there are commonly six exterior to the church, there is therefore a change over from the actual geometry that the normans used to the local flow shapes commonly utilised at stone circles.
The rectanguler bit inside castlerigg imho and I would need to check will be where the geometry is used to encase a very powerfull vortex point where the alter or hearth was positioned, basically to upgrade that specific locality.
I find it highly offensive and patronising that other posters deem themselves to know better, or to determine who can have what opinion or thoughts relative to these sites, when there is NO firm or accepted conclusions or thoughts.
cropredy
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cropredy
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| Posted 22-01-2013 at 17:12
I would like for comparison to introduce Old sarum.
http://www.sacred-destinations.com/england/old-sarum.htm
I have been many times there , and it is the rectanguler construction of the cathedral within the egg sort of shaped henge.
I know there is a very powerfull vortex point where the inner so called castle is sited, and then there are a further fairly well circuler set of smaller vortexs, twelve if I remember correct in the area beteen the embankments, the main grassed area.
The cathedral is definately located relative to the fantastic geometry that it's remnants display.
There will have been an alter spot.
I know old sarum is a henge, but it's construction is to locally do a similer occurance as a stone circle does which is to accumulate and seperate into powerfull local flows the thousands of small flows going in/out of that locality.
I don't blame William the konk for heading straight there, both as a powerfull place and defensive location.
cropredy
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tiompan
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| Posted 22-01-2013 at 17:37
Quote:
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On 2013-01-22 16:43, cropredy wrote:
This thread has not been diverted.
Anews OP was about the egg shape of castlerigg , and the apparent shape of the sun seen there at sunrise.
cropredy
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Look at the earlier posts .
There was no mention of dowsing until you posed the question about Buck House and Nelson's column .
A question that I asked for an explanation of at the time and has still not been explained .
George
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cropredy
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| Posted 22-01-2013 at 17:50
Quote:
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On 2013-01-22 17:37, tiompan wrote:
Quote:
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On 2013-01-22 16:43, cropredy wrote:
This thread has not been diverted.
Anews OP was about the egg shape of castlerigg , and the apparent shape of the sun seen there at sunrise.
cropredy
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Look at the earlier posts .
There was no mention of dowsing until you posed the question about Buck House and Nelson's column .
A question that I asked for an explanation of at the time and has still not been explained .
George
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Is there a LAW that nobody can speculate about DOWSING.
If so goodbye.
If there is to be no mention of dowsing, it was My assumption that the posts where to be in the stones section, not here in the area for if YOU DOWSE or HUG STONES etc.
If someone had the consideration that the castlerigg stone circle was constructed by a tribe of stone huggers, would they not be entitled to post such????
If not why not.
The question about trafalgar SQUARE and bucks house was leading to a similarity with castlerigg and it's environs, but I lost the will to almost live somewhere along the mall, as such.due to a never ending complainer about dowsing, similer to having a machine gun pointed at Me on the mall.....pure ignorance.
cropredy
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tiompan
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| Posted 22-01-2013 at 17:58
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On 2013-01-22 17:50, cropredy wrote:
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Is there a LAW that nobody can speculate about DOWSING.
cropredy
[/quote]
I dunno . I'm happy to discuss/debate the subject .
George
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AnewMerlinian
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| Posted 23-01-2013 at 01:40
Discussion/debate of dowsing is a given here . No problem by me .
@tiompan ; Thanks for the links . I should have more to say after i've read them . Thanks also for the Brat's Hill plan .
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cropredy
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| Posted 23-01-2013 at 10:52
Quote:
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On 2013-01-22 17:58, tiompan wrote:
Quote:
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On 2013-01-22 17:50, cropredy wrote:
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Is there a LAW that nobody can speculate about DOWSING.
cropredy
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I dunno . I'm happy to discuss/debate the subject .
George
[/quote]
Open a thread then, perhaps up in the stones section???
I can't understand why there is a default always to be submissive to the sceptics....their wrong.
cropredy
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cropredy
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| Posted 23-01-2013 at 10:55
Quote:
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On 2013-01-23 01:40, AnewMerlinian wrote:
Discussion/debate of dowsing is a given here . No problem by me .
@tiompan ; Thanks for the links . I should have more to say after i've read them . Thanks also for the Brat's Hill plan .
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Have said enough on this thread mon amie.
I realise where Your main focus is, and as ever watch Your input with great admiration.
cropredy
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