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The Megalithic Portal and Megalith Map : Index >>
Sacred Sites and Megalithic Mysteries >> Solar alignments?
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Solar alignments? |
jonm
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|  Posted 29-08-2012 at 16:13
Thanks George
Couldn't find her name unfortunately. Doesn't matter much though as it's issued via a UN backed agency.
Thanks again
Jon
PS Do you have any examples of anyone from English Heritage referring to it as an Observatory? (that would be dead useful too)
Thanks!
[ This message was edited by: jonm on 2012-08-29 18:19 ]
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cropredy
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| Posted 29-08-2012 at 18:20
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On 2012-08-29 05:09, Feanor wrote:
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On 2012-08-28 19:10, cropredy wrote:
Hope everyone is fine and healthy, I do read this site, but I don't want to be embroiled in the constant ridicule and disbelief of dowsing so entrenched in many stoneheads.
So it's hello and goodbye again.
cropredy
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Kevin!
You have been missed my friend.
fwiw - I have studiously read every word you've posted, as it applies to the threads I attend, and have very much looked forward to them. I shall continue to do so.
You have my respect, sir, and at least from this 'StoneHead',I do hope you'll come back soon.
Neil
Now back to the SH Lintel Forum, already in progress.
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I am humbled by Your comments...thank You.
For You,
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/antigravityworldgrid/ciencia_antigravityworldgrid06.htm
Hermes Trismegistus held the answers in the palm of His hands....We all do.
cropredy
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tiompan
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| Posted 29-08-2012 at 19:28
Not off hand ,but I'll let you know if I come across any .
George
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On 2012-08-29 16:13, jonm wrote:
Thanks George
Couldn't find her name unfortunately. Doesn't matter much though as it's issued via a UN backed agency.
Thanks again
Jon
PS Do you have any examples of anyone from English Heritage referring to it as an Observatory? (that would be dead useful too)
Thanks!
[ This message was edited by: jonm on 2012-08-29 18:19 ]
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rogeralbin
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| Posted 30-08-2012 at 12:12
[quote]
On 2012-08-28 19:10, cropredy wrote:
Nothing changes?
The sun pops up, the thing never stops, thus it is never in any position to FIX any alignment to it at all.
I know it is scoffed at, scorned and looked down upon, but......
There is a fixed geometry that at all megalithic sites are detectable as to showing what they are aligned to.
What they are aligned to is in 4D, and the very method of creation and annihilation is relative to how the transmutation across from 4D into 3D and back again occurs.
Every cursus I have wandered along conforms to exactly what is detectable, and how the flows alter alignment following routes of least resistance.
The whole system is linked to the sun and moon, and all other planets like a giant watch mechanism, but they too are consequences of, not the creator of the all alignments. (quote)
kevin,
nice to hear from you again, seems to me you suffered in the past from there being a lack of agreed "technical" terms to describe your chosen interest leading to 100 of us here to have 100 different interpretations of your contributions, very unfortunate.
Slap me down if I am wrong on this but I see a large overlap between what you see in the electo magnetic fluxes and Jonm's visual geo centric view of the solar system though you and he differ on the medium.
I agree with you about the giant watch mechanism and put foreward an observation. That as say a Tesla meter app on a mobile is so grossly insensative compared to a dowsing rod or the hair on a dowsers arm, that until the gap between electronic measurement and dowsing narrows it will always be difficult.
However I do not want to push this thread in a different direction so best wishes,
Rog.
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cropredy
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| Posted 30-08-2012 at 18:47
rogeralbin,
It is better presently that I stay off this forum, mostly due to what You rightly describe.
I would ask a simple question about the thread title.
Solar alignment.
At what point of the circuler sun is the alignment based upon?
Is the top point of the sun that rises the self same point as it sets?
How does light travel?
If You stick a pole in the ground a shadow is created that moves relative what which point of the sun?
I would offer a totally different idea as to what the shadow is, as I do not consider that light is travelling at all from the sun, but that light occurs relative to counter circuler fields meeting, that is a circuler field foccused on the centre of the sun versus a circuler field centred on the centre of the Earth, and that light occurs relative to those two fields meeting.
Thus the pole offers up a resistance to each of those two opposing fields, but the suns field is far more powerfull than the Earths, thus the shadow is Earth side of the resistance.
It is extremely difficult to think in any terms about light other than how We have been indoctrinated to BELIEVE presently, and that belief fights to be correct.
The visable light is but a narrow band of much more that our eyes cannot detect, but the palms of our hands can, as We THINK via the palms of our hands and soles of our feet.
cropredy
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jonm
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| Posted 01-09-2012 at 09:44
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| I would offer a totally different idea as to what the shadow is, as I do not consider that light is travelling at all from the sun, but that light occurs relative to counter circuler fields meeting, that is a circuler field foccused on the centre of the sun versus a circuler field centred on the centre of the Earth, and that light occurs relative to those two fields meeting. |
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An interesting idea, but what extra benefit might be possible as a result of your knowledge and how does it add to the discussion?
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tiompan
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| Posted 01-09-2012 at 09:54
Sorry to be picky Jon but wouldn't belief be more appropriate than knowledge ?
George
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On 2012-09-01 09:44, jonm wrote:
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| I would offer a totally different idea as to what the shadow is, as I do not consider that light is travelling at all from the sun, but that light occurs relative to counter circuler fields meeting, that is a circuler field foccused on the centre of the sun versus a circuler field centred on the centre of the Earth, and that light occurs relative to those two fields meeting. |
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An interesting idea, but what extra benefit might be possible as a result of your knowledge and how does it add to the discussion?
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jonm
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| Posted 01-09-2012 at 12:46
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| Sorry to be picky Jon but wouldn't belief be more appropriate than knowledge ? |
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I'm not sure! If it has a tangible benefit, then it's probably knowledge. If there's no tangible benefit in knowing something, then belief might be a better word?
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tiompan
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| Posted 01-09-2012 at 13:40
One definition of Knowledge :acquaintance with facts, truths, or principles, as from study or investigation; general erudition . I don't see how that applies in this case ,even the author described it as an idea .
George
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On 2012-09-01 12:46, jonm wrote:
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| Sorry to be picky Jon but wouldn't belief be more appropriate than knowledge ? |
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I'm not sure! If it has a tangible benefit, then it's probably knowledge. If there's no tangible benefit in knowing something, then belief might be a better word?
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megalith6
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|  Posted 01-09-2012 at 21:06
Well thanks to all. I fished out several articles Ronald Hutton references in his book notes and will sum up what I believe by a quote from one of them: Aubrey Burl said "what evidence we have supports a belief in ceremonial, even calendrical sightlines", page 166, 'Archaeoastronomy in the Old World', 1982. I don't know about Mr Hutton, I mean I don't know what Hutton's specialism actually is? But - of the two authors - I will be guided by Burl here because I believe he has studied his subject and knows what he is talking about.
Ric
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tiompan
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| Posted 01-09-2012 at 22:22
Ronald Hutton is a prof of history . Aubrey Burl is an archaeologist .
If you are interested in archaeoastronomy then prof Clive Ruggles might be a a good place to start .
"the vast majority of prehistoric monuments in these islands do not relate to ... the cardinal points of the sun" If by cardinal points of the sun he means the solar extremes , then he is correct .
"what evidence we have supports a belief in ceremonial, even calendrical sightlines" is only correct in that there are limited examples of such "sightlines " .
George
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On 2012-09-01 21:06, megalith6 wrote:
Well thanks to all. I fished out several articles Ronald Hutton references in his book notes and will sum up what I believe by a quote from one of them: Aubrey Burl said "what evidence we have supports a belief in ceremonial, even calendrical sightlines", page 166, 'Archaeoastronomy in the Old World', 1982. I don't know about Mr Hutton, I mean I don't know what Hutton's specialism actually is? But - of the two authors - I will be guided by Burl here because I believe he has studied his subject and knows what he is talking about.
Ric
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jonm
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| Posted 02-09-2012 at 07:50
Hi George
Quote:
| One definition of Knowledge :acquaintance with facts, truths, or principles, as from study or investigation; general erudition . I don't see how that applies in this case ,even the author described it as an idea . |
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True, but it's possible that Kevin has an insight into something. If it's something that might be of benefit in some way, then it's perhaps worth him researching it so that he and others can use and understand it (and also get whatever benefit there is). If it will never be of benefit to anyone other than writer, then it could be questionable whether or not it's even worth writing about?
As it happens, we had exactly the same discussion about the Stonehenge coincidences: Unlike renewable energy, research into Stonehenge appears at first to have no real purpose and to be largely irrelevant to today's needs. At the start, it was touch and go whether or not to bother to look into it at all. On the other hand, there's an outside possible that the archaeology & history of Stonehenge could become relevant to the future in a way which could easily be understood by the man on the Clapham Omnibus.
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tiompan
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| Posted 02-09-2012 at 09:35
Jon , The insight , if it is not based on the suggestion of others , or idea is merely the start , a long way from the process that may or may not lead to knowledge . It's worth researching simply to satisfy personal curiosity .
George
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On 2012-09-02 07:50, jonm wrote:
Hi George
Quote:
| One definition of Knowledge :acquaintance with facts, truths, or principles, as from study or investigation; general erudition . I don't see how that applies in this case ,even the author described it as an idea . |
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True, but it's possible that Kevin has an insight into something. If it's something that might be of benefit in some way, then it's perhaps worth him researching it so that he and others can use and understand it (and also get whatever benefit there is). If it will never be of benefit to anyone other than writer, then it could be questionable whether or not it's even worth writing about?
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megalith6
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| Posted 02-09-2012 at 12:06
Tiopan wrote:
"prof Clive Ruggles ... 'the vast majority of prehistoric monuments in these islands do not relate to ... the cardinal points of the sun'."
Am aware of this view with thanks.
But am also unhappy about potential prehistoric alignments which have not been investigated. I looked at South Yarrows cairns in Caithness, Scotland last night, for example: they both face equinoctial east with uninterrupted views to the dawn horizon. Apologies if this has already been noted. Consider also Buscot Cursus in Oxfordshire which points directly at the midwinter sunrise. Again, if this is a known, suspected or documented alignment my apologies for not knowing about it.
Ric
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tiompan
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| Posted 02-09-2012 at 13:49
There are two cursuses at Buscot , both could arguably be aligned on the solstice one summer sun rise and the other winter sunrise however it could also be argued that they are mirroring the Rivers Thames and Cole as they are situated at their meeting . The river association has often been remarked upon in relation to Cursus but the astronomical avoided simply because they alignments are very clear and the vast majority are not aligned on Thom paradigm events and many are a long away from being even close .
Of the two South Yarrows chambered Cairns the most southerly has a passage and chamber described by Roger Mercer as being aligned ENE -WSW and the northerly neighbour the passage and chamber are desribed as being ESE -WNW , in both cases an equinoctial alignment would be closer to E-W .Tim Phillips has noted the majority of northern chambered cairns face a general east , of those some will actually be aligned on the equinox but how intentional that may be we can't say .When considered as a group , chambered cairns that can provide orientations once do not show any indication in an interest in Thom paradigm orientations , the best we can say is that the majority do point to an area of the sky where the sun is likely to shine into the passage on some days of the year .When we look at the figures this is what is interesting , not specific events like solstices or equinoxes or even lunar standstills .
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On 2012-09-02 12:06, megalith6 wrote:
Tiopan wrote:
"prof Clive Ruggles ... 'the vast majority of prehistoric monuments in these islands do not relate to ... the cardinal points of the sun'."
Am aware of this view with thanks.
But am also unhappy about potential prehistoric alignments which have not been investigated. I looked at South Yarrows cairns in Caithness, Scotland last night, for example: they both face equinoctial east with uninterrupted views to the dawn horizon. Apologies if this has already been noted. Consider also Buscot Cursus in Oxfordshire which points directly at the midwinter sunrise. Again, if this is a known, suspected or documented alignment my apologies for not knowing about it.
Ric
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cerrig
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| Posted 02-09-2012 at 22:57
In the Brecon Beacons, and further north , around Rhayader, there are many instances of calender related sightlines from, and to, megalithic monuments. All the significant dates of the ancient celtic calender are represented.
These are both solar, and lunar. The question as to whether they are deliberate, or just an accidental coincidence,is, to my mind, an argument that has been won. There may be some that are accidents, but most are definitely not.
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tiompan
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| Posted 02-09-2012 at 23:38
They vast majority of megalithic monuments are not aligned on celtic calendrical events . Could you give examples of these Becon monuments and their orientations ?
George
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On 2012-09-02 22:57, cerrig wrote:
In the Brecon Beacons, and further north , around Rhayader, there are many instances of calender related sightlines from, and to, megalithic monuments. All the significant dates of the ancient celtic calender are represented.
These are both solar, and lunar. The question as to whether they are deliberate, or just an accidental coincidence,is, to my mind, an argument that has been won. There may be some that are accidents, but most are definitely not.
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megalith6
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| Posted 03-09-2012 at 02:39
South Yarrows: well I discovered a fun way of looking at solar alignments. Pop the co-ords from the Portal here into Google Earth and sight east between the twin Caithness cairns as the equinoctial sun comes up over the North Sea horizon - it's a cracker 
Ric
postscript: you can do this for any prehistoric monument the length & breadth of the isles, so if a solar alignment is in doubt, google-earth it. I don't know if you can do this for lunar alignments though, although there are (free) programmes like Stellarium out there.
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tiompan
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| Posted 03-09-2012 at 08:17
Not too accurate though Ric . That method will produce solar alignments from any spot .Try it from Newgrange where we know that the passage is aligned on the solstice , sure enough the sun will pop up on the horizon at the equinox but that doesn't mean the monument is aligned on the equinox . It's the orientation of the passage that matters. In the case of the South Yarrows CC's the passages may well have been aligned on the solstice you would never know ,plus it is the alignment from the monument that is calculated not the spot between two monuments .
George
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On 2012-09-03 02:39, megalith6 wrote:
South Yarrows: well I discovered a fun way of looking at solar alignments. Pop the co-ords from the Portal here into Google Earth and sight east between the twin Caithness cairns as the equinoctial sun comes up over the North Sea horizon - it's a cracker
Ric
postscript: you can do this for any prehistoric monument the length & breadth of the isles, so if a solar alignment is in doubt, google-earth it. I don't know if you can do this for lunar alignments though, although there are (free) programmes like Stellarium out there.
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jonm
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| Posted 03-09-2012 at 08:45
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| It's worth researching simply to satisfy personal curiosity . |
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Agreed. But I don't know of a way to help Kevin bring his ideas and research to the point where it can be shared.
The discussion about alignments is exceptionally interesting. I don't know enough about this. Perhaps calls for an assessment of the evidence will only be acceptable when the major personalities within the profession have passed on?
Thanks also for the thoughts about Historians versus Archaeologists. It hadn't occurred to me to look at it this way.
All the best
Jon
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