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rock 'art'..... taking photos. |
crannog
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20-06-2011
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from Loch Nell
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|  Posted 30-04-2012 at 14:51
In order to take clearer photos of cup & rings etc is it ok to colour in with (non-toxic)chalk first? 
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davidmorgan
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23-11-2006
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from The New Forest
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| Posted 30-04-2012 at 15:44
Personally I don't like it when they've been chalked - e.g. here.
Better, in my opinion, to wait for the low sunlight (or night time artificial light?). Or maybe do some clever photo editing to enhance it.
Although, a lot of the Scandinavian rock art has been painted in!
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Runemage
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from UK
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|  Posted 30-04-2012 at 15:59
I think that's a big gasp, shock horror Noooooooooonononono
The general consensus is because it causes damage and the chalked images aren't very clear anyway. RA isn't smooth so the chalk lines are very fuzzy around the edges Chalking is abrasive and so is washing/scrubbing it off. No matter what's used, it damages the stone in some way, so better to steer clear.
Maybe try taking a mister bottle with you to dampen the art and get a photograph from an angle, with a bright light-source, torch possibly?
I'm sure George Tiompan will be along soon to give you the benefit of his experience.
Rune
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caradog
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from Yeovil, England
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| Posted 30-04-2012 at 17:58
Like the reply very positive, like taking the bottle of water along to highlight the marks.
Chalk can not be no more harmful then what the weather does to these incredible bronze age marks.
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tiompan
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| Posted 30-04-2012 at 18:06
Apart from the physical problems referred to there is also the problem of introducing subjectivity into the design .
George
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sem
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12-11-2003
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from Bridgend,S.Wales
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| Posted 30-04-2012 at 18:51
Crannog
The camera will never view as a human eye can, why not just photoshop it later?
As Tiompan says there is the problem of subjectivity, but wasn't the placing and decorating of a stone subjective in the first place?
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Runemage
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from UK
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| Posted 30-04-2012 at 19:38
Chalk can not be no more harmful then what the weather does to these incredible bronze age marks.
Ah, but...that's only presuming one person does it. Imagine....you arrive and the art has been chalked in blue and worn off a bit, so you scrub it off and use your white, maybe you scrub the white off afterwards but some stays, as chalk invariably does. The next person wants theirs picked out in red, so more scrubbing of the blue and white remnants and a thick layer of red is applied. Repeat ad infinitum.
Soon, there's very little definition of the original art and as George said, chalking goes where the chalker thinks it should, not necessarily where the pattern actually is.
Look at this, if there's ever an example for not chalking, this has to be it
http://www.megalithic.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=a312&file=index&do=showpic&pid=49085
Try it at home, find a stone in your garden and chalk a pattern on it, pick a textured bit to simulate the pocking. Just wait and see how long the weather takes to completely eradicate the chalk.
Rune
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PeteG
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from Avebury
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| Posted 30-04-2012 at 20:02
I think the best way is to use a torch to show the markings.
I did this at Fyfield to see the Cup Marked stone better
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXQXYNOA50Q
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frogcottage42
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14-02-2010
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from tuosist
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| Posted 30-04-2012 at 21:15
I may be biased being as he is over here but I reckon Ken Williams has this pegged see
http://www.shadowsandstone.com/Ancient-Ireland/Rock-Art/Derrynablaha-Iveragh-Peninsula/2746535_vwfXGW
as an example
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PeteG
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from Avebury
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| Posted 30-04-2012 at 21:18
yup! Ken uses multiple flash units to show off the RA.
This also gets rid of any lichen circles that confuse the eyes during daylight.
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davidmorgan
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from The New Forest
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| Posted 01-05-2012 at 08:59
Yes, artificial light seems to be the best:
http://www.megalithic.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=a312&file=index&do=showpic&pid=44246
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crannog
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from Loch Nell
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| Posted 01-05-2012 at 11:41
Thank-you one and all for the responses and links. Personally I would not be able to use multiple flash units or an array of special lighting. As I take all of my photos on my mega-super 5mega pixel mobile phone! lol I think a spray bottle and trial and error with natural daylight, I have noticed that on a rainy days (and we do get a lot of those!) images show up clearer, but then the lens gets all raindrops and its hard to press the footery wee button to take the picture! Photoshop, not sure if I have that on my laptop, but, if I do I will have a wee play around with it. 
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davidmorgan
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from The New Forest
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| Posted 01-05-2012 at 12:37
I recently bought a couple of these 72 LED lamps. Now I've got to find some carvings to try them out on.
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PeteG
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from Avebury
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| Posted 01-05-2012 at 12:42
if you don't have Photoshop you can edit your photos online here
http://pixlr.com/
which will do you well for most things,
PeteG
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h_fenton
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22-10-2005
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from OXFORDSHIRE, UK
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| Posted 01-05-2012 at 19:27
chalk which is alkaline applied to a rock is generally frowned upon because it has been scientifically shown to have a detrimental effect on the chemistry and/or acidity of the surface of the rock.
The best photos of rock art are usually when strong directional light is used this might be when the sun is low angle raking across the rock art panel, often this light is the best. Another method is to photograph at night or in low light with a torch to help show markings or use camera flash/flashes.
Another possibly more versatile option is to use a Photographic Light Reflector to direct light across the area you are interested in, depending on lighting conditions you might also need to shade your subject as well. reflecting light across or if using a torch it is best to have someone controlling the camera and someone controlling the lighting.
different lighting conditions can have a huge effect on the appearance of the rock art you are trying to record, even just time of day.
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caradoc68
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24-06-2010
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from Yeovil
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| Posted 02-05-2012 at 18:27
Its rains every other day in Argyll that's if we lucky enough to see the sky, interesting topic with better ideas. Some sites in Argyll are 4-5 miles away from any road and carrying lighting equipment 4-5 miles is not that practically. I do like the idea with the water bottle sounds simple and affective.
The best idea I've heard is that archaeologist cover these panels of art up after their surveys, because the weather will wash them away in a matter of decades dew to erosion.
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coin
Joined:
27-04-2010
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from wales
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| Posted 09-07-2012 at 14:46
NO!, please dont chalk them!
i like the idea of water but DO NOT CHALK THEM! also i don't think that it is a good idea to try to hollow them out, eg, moss removal.
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Sunny100
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from Near Nelson, Lancashire
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| Posted 09-07-2012 at 22:24
I don't like people placing glass marbles into cup marks to show them up. Better to take a photo with some light shining on to it. A fine water spray bottle is a very good idea, too.
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holger_rix
Joined:
25-06-2007
Messages: 303
from Hamburg, Germany
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| Posted 10-07-2012 at 09:46
I just bought an extension cable for my old flashlight.
It works pretty good.
I can hold the camera in one hand and point the flash with the outstretched other hand. I will need more practise, but it looks promising.
The only way I would agree with;
clean the stone carefull with a soft brush (broom)
and may be pour some water on it.
[ This message was edited by: holger_rix on 2012-07-10 10:00 ]
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juamei
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28-11-2002
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from Buxton
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| Posted 10-07-2012 at 13:00
I just take a sports cap water bottle and "spray" using that. Hard to get much definition at this time of the year though unless its very late or very early in the day. This is one from Gardoms edge two weeks ago:
vs
[ This message was edited by: juamei on 2012-07-10 13:01 ]
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