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The Megalithic Portal and Megalith Map : Index >>
Portal Talking Shop >> Words and Things
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Words and Things |
JohnLindsay
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|  Posted 10-04-2012 at 11:31
I've noticed that posting something adds up a stack of google links, which is an interesting matter, as I've been reading a google thing from WHSmiths.
On the British Archaeology site, the back run of journals is open access, which is an even more interesting matter, given the dawning this morning of the Academic Spring.
Searching that, I found an article on cursus, as I had been struck by the number shown on this site around Dorchester (On Thames).
There is a quantity into quality matter here I think, one cursus is one thing, a cluster or clump of them might be another matter entirely, like an irrigation systems (which is of course a drainage matter.)
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JohnLindsay
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| Posted 10-04-2012 at 11:34
there seems to me a more general matter too of words and things, starting with the labels of times, and adding in the labels for things in place. Such as henge. Or Hill fort. Or beorg. and I now have quite a list of these.
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tDrusin
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| Posted 12-04-2012 at 16:57
Interesting observations, I would like to know what else is on that list. The book Qirkology by Dr Wiseman is a must read. It delves into how the titles we assign things, even peole, can greatly impact our interpretations
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On 2012-04-10 11:34, JohnLindsay wrote:
there seems to me a more general matter too of words and things, starting with the labels of times, and adding in the labels for things in place. Such as henge. Or Hill fort. Or beorg. and I now have quite a list of these.
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JohnLindsay
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| Posted 16-04-2012 at 11:11
Now the message box pops up, so I have to scroll up and down to see what I am replying to, in parallel with adding the next matter.
Roman Roads is one.
The beauties of .. might be another, for the 700 page introduction says it is called that only because the publisher wanted it, then there are two other volumes plus all the volumes to which this is the introduction which has a huge amount of material on antiquities, or archaeology, so there is another one at the same time. The Antiquarians Archaeologia is a case I am working on at the moment, huge amount there.
Quine on Quiddities is quite good on this sort of thing too.
Tumuli of course, when they aren't tombs, particularly. The working out of what was a tomb at point of construction, what was something else, but became a tomb later, what has never been a tomb, what has been dug into at some stage and not recorded so you don't know what was there, all this needs detailed cataloguing.
Nations and counties fits in here, for times before the Anglo Saxon, or Bede, or writing.
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Andy B
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| Posted 16-04-2012 at 18:14
> On the British Archaeology site, the back run of journals is open access.
They may not be for that much longer so make the most of it. However the article archive will still be accessible from the Internet Archive so if they disappear I will be moving my links to them to point there.
[ This message was edited by: Andy B on 2012-04-16 18:15 ]
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JohnLindsay
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| Posted 17-04-2012 at 11:50
interesting matter as things come and go...wonder what the ads is doing for archives, need to find that out...
and found that beauties of england
http://archive.org/details/beautiesofenglan00brewiala
introduction, has long description of antiquities and then a very full bibliography up til their date, about 1817. The volumes of counties I've checked so far are Essex, in Colchester library.
But I want to return to words and things, for the threaded discussions means one either continues or branches.
And the first words and things worked case is Iceni.
Still need to check this.
But it comes from BAR549. Iceni is then a people who occupy a land at a time. The time according to BAR549 is Iron Age. Iron Age as to be a word, I'm afraid. Iron Age then has to map onto some time space, mapping time. Iceni has to map onto some space, and it is also now defined as time, so space time. The report then goes on about things called torcs, which is a good grep, and that means from the report, we can do British Museum and we can do Norwich Museum. Art Fund card gets you into the latter for free.
Torc now becomes a thing which is a word which maps onto times and spaces. And of course, bibliography, where we have noticed Atlantic Celts as a term space time.
Celts then brings in language, and the BAT549 has a chapter on coins. Coins is so big I am going to steer clear of it, but the coins in this case have terms, which are words, which are places, and the comparative philology in the chapter makes comments about place names, so that needs to be added in.
This moves words and things forward, for we have people, space, time as classes of things.
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JohnLindsay
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| Posted 30-04-2012 at 12:17
Celts and Roman Britain is not only a words and things matter, but to introduce something new, which makes this a connection with bibliography, the way structured knowledge is organised through things called libraries, in classes, which we call ISKO.
There is a library in Senate House, London, called the Institute of Classical Studies. It does Roman Britain, which means it does some Celt and some Iron Age. There is a library called Senate House, which does some archaeology. There is a library called the Institute of Historical Research, which does a lot of the county historical or archaeological society journals, such as Wiltshire. Avebury will be in Wiltshire journal, indeed is in the most recent. So there are groups of journals which are not digital which contain articles dealing with things in words, which are all over the place. Then there are local history libraries in places, usually the capitals of counties, or county towns. There might or might not be museums which collect the things but use different words from the libraries. Some are very substantial, such as Devizes, and the museum has a vast library which is different from the public library.
The debates in archaeology, anthropology, aesthetics, architecture, art history, over how to manage concepts dealing with things like torcs, or mirrors, and in particular things which are found in association with burials, or water, or megaliths, or cursus, or causewayed enclosures, or the one I have just come across, a causeway, but a different sort of causeway, which means a word being used already is being used for a different thing, but a thing that carries on into the Iron Age mean that the words need to be mapped to the things, the places and the times, joined by what I call the people, as in the Iceni case.
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JohnLindsay
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| Posted 06-05-2012 at 22:33
Now I have the next stack on words and things, the word hlow, the word low or lowe, the word barrow, or hill, or knoll. When hill appears with something, such as cherry in Ely, can we imply something we don't yet know about? Bibliography and the local centres don't help us, plus, like Marlborough, connected with a school. In comparative philology or linguistics there is a thing called a concept called an isogloss, which is a border where a string occurs with a space time, information space, infospace, concept boundary, so hills connected with barrows might prove to have something like this. I'm exploring google earth and here to see whether we can make anything of this. There might well be more obvious others.
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JohnLindsay
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| Posted 22-05-2012 at 09:14
Words and things continues with a journal called Antiquity, which raises about as many questions as it is possible to raise, and identifies a number of people with considerable continuity over a long time, starting in 1927, which is well back in history. Starting with 1952 would give me a scope, then starting with say 1983 as proximity. I'm going to open a new thread for EngLaID as that has emerged as a project dealing with things landscape and things identity.
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JohnLindsay
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| Posted 26-06-2012 at 10:53
The words and things case of the stone hand axe is turning out to be a really interesting one, for flint is a category of object with properties which might have led to civilisations developing with particular properties. The stone matter turns out to be much more complicated. The hand bit is complicated as well for what is more complicated is hafting and shafting, for flint can't be shafted. Perhaps. I'm not sure I understand any of this at this stage.
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JohnLindsay
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| Posted 09-07-2012 at 11:26
Words and things becomes a more general matter with google and things are not strings.... on which perhaps more in the future...
but David Anthony's book, the horse, the wheel and language is the first real discussion I have come across after Colin Renfrew, but unfortunately Anthony deals only with a tiny stack of words and things, though with a very useful diagram.
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JohnLindsay
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| Posted 10-07-2012 at 10:50
now words and things has become really interesting for google is arguing that things are not strings, though this is to stray into more general territory than the megalith... It is true that some things are not strings, the Arminghall site is an empty field, but the string arminghall is a string, and the thing arminghall is both a thing and a string. I might take a piece of string to arminghall, it looks rather empty.
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JohnLindsay
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| Posted 21-08-2012 at 11:01
On the site Churchill I've posted something on church hill being a words and things thing.
[edited to add link to site page]
[ This message was edited by: Andy B on 2012-08-27 17:30 ]
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JohnLindsay
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| Posted 11-09-2012 at 10:14
A much more complicated one to add now, this might be illegitimate.
Flocks, herds, packs.
Sheep flock, herds include deer, which people seemingly can't herd, and cows, which people can, and packs include dogs, but not cats?
Someone commented on humans using dogs during "domestication". itself already a loaded term, for domus has the same meaning as dome, and implies settlement, whereas I think herding and flocking started during what I'll call droving time. Slowly herds were navigated. Someone else said that if cattle walk up to 8 miles per day, they will continue to gain weight, so I suspect droving predates what is called farming. The fertilisation of dung on droving routes in turn changed the evolution of plants?
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JohnLindsay
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| Posted 17-09-2012 at 10:49
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On 2012-08-21 11:01, JohnLindsay wrote:
On the site Churchill I've posted something on church hill being a words and things thing.
[edited to add link to site page]
[ This message was edited by: Andy B on 2012-08-27 17:30 ]
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I've just checked the link and it seems on this browser not to be working, but the matter remains, the church wasn't on the hill.
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JohnLindsay
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| Posted 17-09-2012 at 10:51
however without following that thread, returning to words and things, I have found quite a few accounts of nomadic and pastoralist, and both these terms seem to me to be very culturally loaded, particularly the pastoral, on which I did a big thing on wikispaces a long time ago, for which formosempastor still works, but that it to take us a long way from megaliths. The megalith connection comes with the idea of droving.
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JohnLindsay
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| Posted 17-09-2012 at 10:54
Now, from a text, from the editor, on words, funerary, cemetery, mortuary, passage, graves, barrows, chambered, tombs, cairns, and you can combine any groups of those in just about any way you like, according to the will or desire of the authors. The point remains, that in any computer based tool, none of this will work. Only a string grepped will be retrieved. With google, things are even worse.
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JohnLindsay
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| Posted 18-09-2012 at 10:38
I left sepuchral out of that stack as I couldn't remember how to spell it, and it looks as if it is one of those words whose spelling has changed over the past couple of hundred years, which is another matter I hadn't noted before.
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JohnLindsay
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| Posted 23-09-2012 at 21:06
I've noticed this seems to still be set at 28-02- so some how or other it doesn't appear up the stack.
But now we want to reach the heady heights of ontology.
Chris Gosden, Aesthetics and Archaeology, or it could be the other way round, with three papers. Jones on drawing things, though he doesn't make the point that the drawings have captions.
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JohnLindsay
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| Posted 23-09-2012 at 21:09
ahah, misread that, it is date joined, not date message posted. Sigh.
But add here the volume of London Archaeology 54 title Havering, which deals with two Rainham ring ditches, unknown in Rainham Library which I checked on Saturday.
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