On 2012-03-12 23:18, ledgehammer wrote:

Quote:

Tom , you describe having “felt energy at ancient sites and chi as “ quite simply the energy within yourself “ which suggests that what you felt wasn’t Chi .I asked about this a few posts ago but you never responded . What makes you think because someone disagrees with you that they have not dowsed or “ let go of the world about them “ . I only respond to what you have said and make no assumptions about your experiences or make any suggestions on how you should behave e.g. advise “ why don’t you get a grip and realise that what a crock all that woo business is “ read Kahneman “ Thinking fast and slow “ etc . Sinply it’s rude , presumptive , based on ignorance and condescending . What symbol was “given “ from Avebury ? Why not X for Stonehnege ?turn it round and ask why ? where is the supporting argument . George

George,

I apologise, It was not intended in any of that context - I was trying to explain the other side of the coin, and that looking at things scientifically doesn't have all the answers, and I am still keen to hear what you think these mental responses to feeling Chi including at ancient sites e.g feeling enlightened, liberated e.t.c

My perception my be very different to others, so I can only offer personal experiences and observations and I cannot speak for Chinese people and their culture. The energy within myself is the same as the energy all around, imagine taking a universe and condensing it down into a simpler smaller form, I see that as ourselves, I believe that there are two worlds which I describe as heaven and as Earth, Earth being the world we can measure e.t.c, Heaven is another world, one in which we also exist. We are connected directly to heaven, and the earth - when I do excersizes I believe that I am able to connect with heaven and this is the source of my energy which is a seperate field but taps into the universal energy. The method of how we tap in depends on conciousness / and intent and for me it was a serious of events which opened me up to the possibility. During this process of opening up I also decided that it didnt matter if it was purely metaphorically and none of it was real, and I have received a benefit to this process, unfortunatly there is an element of faith involved.

When noticing the feelings of energy, there are points of the body which feel significant through sensation, the main two I have felt are on my forehead and in my stomache area, these came before I had even heard the word chakra, but the point I am making is that there seem to be points where I am connected with the source of Chi, and some ancient sites are said to be the same, "navels of the earth", by this definition the chi which is everywhere eminates from or is more concentrated, these sites are the more ancient sites, and I believe that the more modern sites are following the same principle, either creating or enhancing a natural point in which The source of Chi is colser to the world we can see touch and feel.

Avebury has a double circle, some stones are shaped to resemble the female symbol and others the male, in one circle there is an obelisk in the other there is a cove, the location of the stones / serpentine avenues indicate even today the location and crossing of female and male energy lines. Much belief, even from Stukely (pre 1960's) was that it was a druids temple in which the sun and the moon were being worshiped, this again could be considered an appreciation of the duality of the heavens and perhaps Yin and Yang / Male and female.

I dont know what all of the ancient sites were designed for, and will not presume anything, but we can agree that both stonehenge and Avebury are indeed very different, The layout and symbology throughout Avebury seems consistant with this idea, I dare say this does not equate to the symbology found at stonehenge as you are suggesting.

Tom

On 2012-03-13 10:33, frogcottage42 wrote:
George, I agree that there is little or no specific mention of 'energies' at ancient sites in older texts and that on the surface that alone would suggest this is a 'new age phenomena.
It could be suggested however that many sites have a long history of people reporting feeling 'energies' at these sites but they are reported as 'Religious Experiences'
Certainly here in Ireland there is folklore surrounding many sites which are associated with healing or simply feeling good. I suspect that the Catholic church has done it's utmost to ensure that these places are exploited as a means of bringing formerly Pagan sites into a Catholic context and have attributed any such feelings to the power of Saints.
It is also very common for people with no knowledge or interest in these sites to report finding the stones warmer than expected when touched, perhaps another manifestation of a similar effect?
If I had to try to explain from a logical and detached point of view I guess the interaction of these places with thousands of people over millennia might leave some kind of imprint which some people are more sensitive than others.

On 2012-03-13 16:44, davidmorgan wrote:
Has anyone mentioned Kami yet?

On 2012-03-13 16:44, davidmorgan wrote:
Has anyone mentioned Kami yet?

There was a classic from the early 60 ‘s up the road from me , a little old lady saw the ghosts of warring soldiers in a local field ,everyone knew that the field was the site of battle but later investigation not only showed that she had got the wrong field it is now believed the battle never even took place in the area but was much further north (about 50 miles as the crow flies and ,the battle was Nechtansmere 685 AD )

On 2012-03-13 00:41, frogcottage42 wrote:

Quote:

Much belief, even from Stukely (pre 1960's) was that it was a druids temple in which the sun and the moon were being worshiped, this again could be considered an appreciation of the duality of the heavens and perhaps Yin and Yang / Male and female. I dont know what all of the ancient sites were designed for, and will not presume anything, but we can agree that both stonehenge and Avebury are indeed very different, The layout and symbology throughout Avebury seems consistant with this idea, I dare say this does not equate to the symbology found at stonehenge as you are suggesting. Tom

Aaaaaagh! any time anyone mentions 'Druids' in connection with these monuments I want to rip out their tongues.....
Nothing personal it just makes me mad, bloody Victorian antiquarian hogwash.
I could be persuaded that Woodhenge may be related to a similar religious ethic but nowhere is there any record of Druids making stone monuments or am I wrong?
In fact beyond Tacitus there is little to suggest the Druids were there much before the Roman destruction of their 'sacred groves' on Anglesea.

On 2012-03-13 07:42, vlad wrote:
Someone wrote above: - "Tom , you describe having “felt energy at ancient sites and chi as “ quite simply the energy within yourself “ which suggests that what you felt wasn’t Chi." IMO Just such statements call for return till essentials I`ve proposed before. MICROCOSMIC RESONANCE of our bodies (inner chi) with a "natural order" or Macro-Cosmos (outer chi-fields) has been always the basic tool of survival. (Such resonance with our equals and our close surroundings might be called perhaps "empathy"?)

Natural philosophy aside; luckily we`ve saved its FOLKLORIC VERSION here and there. And it can be used as a guide-book over higher levels of our empathic resonance with Nature. Monsters, giants, dragons, etc. are allegories for disparate chi-fields out there. "How could we use them?" - a practical-minded modern human could ask. Well; some of them were meant originally as warnings against entering dangerous areas of your little homeland (hobbiton) at specific periods of time. Your personal chi (life-energy potential) would have been drained away there. You`d better wait until a local hero (a "new" yang-energy surge) dispatch the monster into oblivion.

When mapping this traditional folkloric knowledge, eliminate first those parts, which would lead you astray, outside the "feeding grounds" of your personal aura. Throw away Stonehenge-size and Arch.Michael line connections, ancient astronomy sightings and the like high-brow stuff. What were left should allow you to pinpoint a border of your "hobbiton", location of the TREE of LIFE in the centre of it and the "shadows" of its branches. Among them, you`d see the "living" left-hand and right-hand spirals.

Sorry, Tom; I was not here, when you`d been presenting your book. Could you repeat this information for the retarded ones like me?

[ This message was edited by: vlad on 2012-03-13 08:30 ]

On 2012-03-13 20:23, ledgehammer wrote:

Quote:

On 2012-03-13 00:41, frogcottage42 wrote: Quote: Much belief, even from Stukely (pre 1960's) was that it was a druids temple in which the sun and the moon were being worshiped, this again could be considered an appreciation of the duality of the heavens and perhaps Yin and Yang / Male and female. I dont know what all of the ancient sites were designed for, and will not presume anything, but we can agree that both stonehenge and Avebury are indeed very different, The layout and symbology throughout Avebury seems consistant with this idea, I dare say this does not equate to the symbology found at stonehenge as you are suggesting. Tom Aaaaaagh! any time anyone mentions 'Druids' in connection with these monuments I want to rip out their tongues..... Nothing personal it just makes me mad, bloody Victorian antiquarian hogwash. I could be persuaded that Woodhenge may be related to a similar religious ethic but nowhere is there any record of Druids making stone monuments or am I wrong? In fact beyond Tacitus there is little to suggest the Druids were there much before the Roman destruction of their 'sacred groves' on Anglesea.

F.C,

I agree as far as druids are concerned (or rather not concerned), but for me the symbology invoving the sun and moon for me is key and the point here, this is mentioned before the 1960's but George would argue that this is a 1960's interpretation of his observations. He did observed a dual serpentine avenue, upon dowsing there are two energy lines which flow along these avenues, one is masculine and the other feminine, but again dowsing is not considered evidence, either way I still think it is a relevant point

Tom

On 2012-03-13 09:10, tiompan wrote:
Tom ,have I suggested that science has all the answers ? You mention some beliefs , fine that is what you believe . The ancient sites as Chakras sounds like a Tom Graves idea , is he still down on energy dowsing ? Avebury had three circles the majority of the stones from the inner two are missing so we don’t know if there was a binary opposition of shapes in relation these two . We owe so much to Stukeley but he was a product of his time and the speculative stuff needs a pinch of snuff . You don’t know what the ancient sites were designed for , fine , join the boat .You often find dowers and new agers after a few visits , and mediations of the matter will quite happily have them sussed despite an avoidance of the literature /excavation reports and any understanding .
George

Quote:

On 2012-03-12 23:18, ledgehammer wrote: Quote: Tom , you describe having “felt energy at ancient sites and chi as “ quite simply the energy within yourself “ which suggests that what you felt wasn’t Chi .I asked about this a few posts ago but you never responded . What makes you think because someone disagrees with you that they have not dowsed or “ let go of the world about them “ . I only respond to what you have said and make no assumptions about your experiences or make any suggestions on how you should behave e.g. advise “ why don’t you get a grip and realise that what a crock all that woo business is “ read Kahneman “ Thinking fast and slow “ etc . Sinply it’s rude , presumptive , based on ignorance and condescending . What symbol was “given “ from Avebury ? Why not X for Stonehnege ?turn it round and ask why ? where is the supporting argument . George George, I apologise, It was not intended in any of that context - I was trying to explain the other side of the coin, and that looking at things scientifically doesn't have all the answers, and I am still keen to hear what you think these mental responses to feeling Chi including at ancient sites e.g feeling enlightened, liberated e.t.c My perception my be very different to others, so I can only offer personal experiences and observations and I cannot speak for Chinese people and their culture. The energy within myself is the same as the energy all around, imagine taking a universe and condensing it down into a simpler smaller form, I see that as ourselves, I believe that there are two worlds which I describe as heaven and as Earth, Earth being the world we can measure e.t.c, Heaven is another world, one in which we also exist. We are connected directly to heaven, and the earth - when I do excersizes I believe that I am able to connect with heaven and this is the source of my energy which is a seperate field but taps into the universal energy. The method of how we tap in depends on conciousness / and intent and for me it was a serious of events which opened me up to the possibility. During this process of opening up I also decided that it didnt matter if it was purely metaphorically and none of it was real, and I have received a benefit to this process, unfortunatly there is an element of faith involved. When noticing the feelings of energy, there are points of the body which feel significant through sensation, the main two I have felt are on my forehead and in my stomache area, these came before I had even heard the word chakra, but the point I am making is that there seem to be points where I am connected with the source of Chi, and some ancient sites are said to be the same, "navels of the earth", by this definition the chi which is everywhere eminates from or is more concentrated, these sites are the more ancient sites, and I believe that the more modern sites are following the same principle, either creating or enhancing a natural point in which The source of Chi is colser to the world we can see touch and feel. Avebury has a double circle, some stones are shaped to resemble the female symbol and others the male, in one circle there is an obelisk in the other there is a cove, the location of the stones / serpentine avenues indicate even today the location and crossing of female and male energy lines. Much belief, even from Stukely (pre 1960's) was that it was a druids temple in which the sun and the moon were being worshiped, this again could be considered an appreciation of the duality of the heavens and perhaps Yin and Yang / Male and female. I dont know what all of the ancient sites were designed for, and will not presume anything, but we can agree that both stonehenge and Avebury are indeed very different, The layout and symbology throughout Avebury seems consistant with this idea, I dare say this does not equate to the symbology found at stonehenge as you are suggesting. Tom

On 2012-03-13 15:25, tiompan wrote:

Your last point about people leaving a (non physical I imagine ) imprint that is capable of being “read “ by sensitives is not logical to me . This can be tested ,we know of sites of massacres and extreme cruelty that are unrecognisable from the surrounding landscape , not too difficult to arrange a double test . There was a classic from the early 60 ‘s up the road from me , a little old lady saw the ghosts of warring soldiers in a local field ,everyone knew that the field was the site of battle but later investigation not only showed that she had got the wrong field it is now believed the battle never even took place in the area but was much further north (about 50 miles as the crow flies and ,the battle was Nechtansmere 685 AD )

George

On 2012-03-13 18:23, jonm wrote:

Quote:

There was a classic from the early 60 ‘s up the road from me , a little old lady saw the ghosts of warring soldiers in a local field ,everyone knew that the field was the site of battle but later investigation not only showed that she had got the wrong field it is now believed the battle never even took place in the area but was much further north (about 50 miles as the crow flies and ,the battle was Nechtansmere 685 AD )

Aye, but the argument only proves that some people construct visions or ideas in their own minds. We know that this happens quite a lot, to the extent that we can be reasonably certain that the probability is high that any given individual report will be the result of a person's own mind, but it doesn't necessarily invalidate all experiences of this nature.

On the other hand, if a report were able to be validated in some way, it doesn't prove that the report is not due to an unknown physical effect.

Not sure my contribution is an any way helpful after having re-read it.

On 2012-03-13 20:49, ledgehammer wrote:

George,

No you havent, but you imply repeatedly that if science does not have the answer then it is false,
Tom

On 2012-03-13 20:59, tiompan wrote:
Tom , you are doing again .I stick to comments you make and don't make stuff up about what you might think , please reciprocate .
You may have a misunderstanding with the term falsifiability , in which case it is worth looking up .
George

Quote:

On 2012-03-13 20:49, ledgehammer wrote: George, No you havent, but you imply repeatedly that if science does not have the answer then it is false, Tom

On 2012-03-13 20:54, frogcottage42 wrote:



I have often wanted to test this theory myself but short of accidentally walking over a defunct concentration camp or similar without knowing it was there it seems a difficult one to try out.
It would not be less likely that large numbers of people experiencing great joy at a site could give rise to a similar but more positive feeling.

On 2012-03-09 18:50, Runemage wrote:
On page 5 of this discussion, I suggested some experiential work to advance understanding of the invisible force that some find and others dispute.

As luck would have it, or serendipity if you're that way minded, there's a free course coming up internationally online which explores this very thing in much more depth. Whilst it is focused on healing, the actual energy it uses is what we've discussed so many times on here and in civilisations that acknowledge its presence, for thousands of years it's been called chi, ki, prana, mana etc.

Usually, learning something like this in its Eastern form could traditionally take years, if not a lifetime. However, this is especially designed for Westerners to be able to do without having to understand the Eastern mindset. All the inference, mysticism, mystery and secrecy has been removed and transformed into some simple exercises that anyone Western can do with little effort and more importantly, they can achieve results from the first attempt.

If you really want to know what people talk about when they say they can feel the energy at a site, then have a go at these simple exercises and you'll be able to feel what has been discussed on here for so long. No amount of question and answer here will come anything like as close as this to fostering understanding.

How many times has this been said here, well it's said on their site too! We were all born with this innate ability. But you really have to experience it for yourself to believe it.

You will need to register an email address here to You will receive an email with a link to a special website. Simply go to that website any time after 10:00 am Central Time on Monday, March 12, and before 9:30 am Central Time on Tuesday to listen to the first two sessions.

The sessions are On-Demand, which means you can experience them any time you want during the periods they are available http://www.learningstrategies.com/SpringForestHealingfest/home.aspx?aff=HS1518
The 6 day course starts on 12 March.

Enjoy!

Rune