On 2012-03-09 18:50, Runemage wrote:
On page 5 of this discussion, I suggested some experiential work to advance understanding of the invisible force that some find and others dispute.

As luck would have it, or serendipity if you're that way minded, there's a free course coming up internationally online which explores this very thing in much more depth. Whilst it is focused on healing, the actual energy it uses is what we've discussed so many times on here and in civilisations that acknowledge its presence, for thousands of years it's been called chi, ki, prana, mana etc.

Usually, learning something like this in its Eastern form could traditionally take years, if not a lifetime. However, this is especially designed for Westerners to be able to do without having to understand the Eastern mindset. All the inference, mysticism, mystery and secrecy has been removed and transformed into some simple exercises that anyone Western can do with little effort and more importantly, they can achieve results from the first attempt.

If you really want to know what people talk about when they say they can feel the energy at a site, then have a go at these simple exercises and you'll be able to feel what has been discussed on here for so long. No amount of question and answer here will come anything like as close as this to fostering understanding.

How many times has this been said here, well it's said on their site too! We were all born with this innate ability. But you really have to experience it for yourself to believe it.

You will need to register an email address here to You will receive an email with a link to a special website. Simply go to that website any time after 10:00 am Central Time on Monday, March 12, and before 9:30 am Central Time on Tuesday to listen to the first two sessions.

The sessions are On-Demand, which means you can experience them any time you want during the periods they are available http://www.learningstrategies.com/SpringForestHealingfest/home.aspx?aff=HS1518
The 6 day course starts on 12 March.

Enjoy!

Rune

On 2012-03-09 14:45, tiompan wrote:
Yes you are a newbie Little Enki and as such maybe should consider dishing out advice so readily .Not that it matters but I had tried dowsing a long time ago probably before Cropredy and Tom and probably before you had even heard of the word .Maybe you should try wrapping your head around some critical thinking and SEE (do the caps make it clearer ?) too. Give it a try , believe in what you are looking for ,make it gold like cropredy claimed to be able to find , please find some for yourself and donate it to charity .
George

Quote:

On 2012-03-09 13:48, LittleEnki wrote: Its simple, and hard all at once, and Tom and Cropredy have found their niche, so maybe you should try to find your's Tiompan, and get out there, and SEE what these things are that you cant seem to wrap your head around. Any dowser will tell you(and I am a newbie) that if you believe in what you are looking for, and why youre looking for it, it will be there. LE

On 2012-03-09 18:50, Runemage wrote:


there's a free course coming up internationally online which explores this very thing in much more depth. Whilst it is focused on healing, the actual energy it uses is what we've discussed so many times on here and in civilisations that acknowledge its presence, for thousands of years it's been called chi, ki, prana, mana etc.

If you really want to know what people talk about when they say they can feel the energy at a site, then have a go at these simple exercises and you'll be able to feel what has been discussed on here for so long.
Rune

On 2012-03-09 19:48, LittleEnki wrote:
Please take this reply with a grain of salt, and not any animosity at all is intended towards you.
Yes, george I may be a newbie, but I do possess something you may or may not, and that is an open mind towards things I dont understand.
My head is firmly in place, and doesnt need wrapping anymore.
I only gave you advice, as I felt the energy myself, and thought if you had a little poke, you might try dowsing again.
That's what friends do.
Never did I try to sound authoratative on the subject, and was just pointing out that if I did experience something several times, I should be able to tell others about it.
Has your younger auto mechanic, or computer tech, or any of many people around you ever tried to DISH OUT advice to you? And if so, were they right? Thought so.
And if you think because you are older, that you are more wise, well that's a matter of opinion, and you what opinions are like....
And as far as dowsing is concerned, I may be a newbie, but I have felt the energy many times, and there is no mistaking it.
You, or no one else, will convince me otherwise, as that would be lying, something I DONT do.
Thanks to the fellows on here, I recognized it, instead of fighting it.
Ive also been aware of the dowsing for many years, and have seen it done many times in the past by experienced individuals, I didnt have any desire to try it then, though.
The reason you werent successful, is the same reason why you are arguing here, you dont understand it, and it makes you uptight, so you argue in hopes of finding the answer.
Dont think that because Im a newbie, that you are superior to me in any way, and I will afford you the same respect.
I happen to have become more than you can imagine in this world, and I am darn proud of it.
BTW caps are for emphasis, as I cant physically make it clearer.
You, as an old salt on the web, should know that.
I see youre reaching for something, George, and with all due respect, find it please, for yourself, if not your friends.
And as to Cropredy, and Tom, they are level headed guys, and I will just stick to replying to them if you wish, but then, who will you argue with?
Im not interested in Gold, but if I found some, I would give it away, as it has no value to me.
As far as critical thinking is concerned, that reminds me of something I heard in a quantum physics course:
Think gently, and youll find the truth; think critical and youll cover it in a pile of disbelief.
Just tryin' to learn,
Littleenki

Quote:

On 2012-03-09 14:45, tiompan wrote: Yes you are a newbie Little Enki and as such maybe should consider dishing out advice so readily .Not that it matters but I had tried dowsing a long time ago probably before Cropredy and Tom and probably before you had even heard of the word .Maybe you should try wrapping your head around some critical thinking and SEE (do the caps make it clearer ?) too. Give it a try , believe in what you are looking for ,make it gold like cropredy claimed to be able to find , please find some for yourself and donate it to charity . George Quote: On 2012-03-09 13:48, LittleEnki wrote: Its simple, and hard all at once, and Tom and Cropredy have found their niche, so maybe you should try to find your's Tiompan, and get out there, and SEE what these things are that you cant seem to wrap your head around. Any dowser will tell you(and I am a newbie) that if you believe in what you are looking for, and why youre looking for it, it will be there. LE

On 2012-03-09 20:15, tiompan wrote:
Littleenki , taken with a large grain of salt .
What makes you think I was unsuccessful at dowsing and don't "understand " something that you do
Have I tried to convince you that you didn't experience something ?
I prefer to reply to comments about the subject/thread and avoid condescending homilies . If you have anything to to say about comments I have made in this please thread please respond but lectures and peurile asides about "getting your head around stuff " isn't actually a response to anything .
George

Quote:

On 2012-03-09 19:48, LittleEnki wrote: Please take this reply with a grain of salt, and not any animosity at all is intended towards you. Yes, george I may be a newbie, but I do possess something you may or may not, and that is an open mind towards things I dont understand. My head is firmly in place, and doesnt need wrapping anymore. I only gave you advice, as I felt the energy myself, and thought if you had a little poke, you might try dowsing again. That's what friends do. Never did I try to sound authoratative on the subject, and was just pointing out that if I did experience something several times, I should be able to tell others about it. Has your younger auto mechanic, or computer tech, or any of many people around you ever tried to DISH OUT advice to you? And if so, were they right? Thought so. And if you think because you are older, that you are more wise, well that's a matter of opinion, and you what opinions are like.... And as far as dowsing is concerned, I may be a newbie, but I have felt the energy many times, and there is no mistaking it. You, or no one else, will convince me otherwise, as that would be lying, something I DONT do. Thanks to the fellows on here, I recognized it, instead of fighting it. Ive also been aware of the dowsing for many years, and have seen it done many times in the past by experienced individuals, I didnt have any desire to try it then, though. The reason you werent successful, is the same reason why you are arguing here, you dont understand it, and it makes you uptight, so you argue in hopes of finding the answer. Dont think that because Im a newbie, that you are superior to me in any way, and I will afford you the same respect. I happen to have become more than you can imagine in this world, and I am darn proud of it. BTW caps are for emphasis, as I cant physically make it clearer. You, as an old salt on the web, should know that. I see youre reaching for something, George, and with all due respect, find it please, for yourself, if not your friends. And as to Cropredy, and Tom, they are level headed guys, and I will just stick to replying to them if you wish, but then, who will you argue with? Im not interested in Gold, but if I found some, I would give it away, as it has no value to me. As far as critical thinking is concerned, that reminds me of something I heard in a quantum physics course: Think gently, and youll find the truth; think critical and youll cover it in a pile of disbelief. Just tryin' to learn, Littleenki Quote: On 2012-03-09 14:45, tiompan wrote: Yes you are a newbie Little Enki and as such maybe should consider dishing out advice so readily .Not that it matters but I had tried dowsing a long time ago probably before Cropredy and Tom and probably before you had even heard of the word .Maybe you should try wrapping your head around some critical thinking and SEE (do the caps make it clearer ?) too. Give it a try , believe in what you are looking for ,make it gold like cropredy claimed to be able to find , please find some for yourself and donate it to charity . George [quote] On 2012-03-09 13:48, LittleEnki wrote: Its simple, and hard all at once, and Tom and Cropredy have found their niche, so maybe you should try to find your's Tiompan, and get out there, and SEE what these things are that you cant seem to wrap your head around. Any dowser will tell you(and I am a newbie) that if you believe in what you are looking for, and why youre looking for it, it will be there. LE

You Rock, Runemage, and you also are very generous!
I signed up,and am looking forward to the lectures.
I have felt something while dowsing but cant define the way it feels.
Thanks much for the cool link!
Cheers!
Littleenki

On 2012-03-09 21:34, Runemage wrote:
Odd that despite Qigong being a very old Chinese practice , there is no mention of chi particularly being associated with prehistoric sites in that culture and it was only in the past 50 years that western writers have made that connection .
George

Where did you get that nugget from

I wouldn't know, I've not read any ancient Chinese literature and would seriously doubt that many westerners have as within Chinese culture even today knowledge connected with these arts is imparted in only the utmost secrecy and I think with more than a modicum of sacredness. Qigong has evolved over thousands of years and there are hundreds of different schools all giving their knowledge only to chosen acolytes.

But their also ancient practise of Feng Shuei (not the modern cobblers) involved what we'd call earth energy as far as my limited research can establish.

Re the site I linked to, the first topic in the first lesson is "What are the two kinds of energy that forms everything"
I'm looking forward to hearing what he has to say about that as it may or may not be similar to Western thoughts.

Rune

On 2012-03-09 23:18, Runemage wrote:
My point was that the chi/qi teaching of the individual schools are to this day secret and therefore any western writings are unlikely to contain the knowledge that the Chinese confer to chosen acolytes so we can't know how accurate or not those accounts are.

I'm content to wait and see what this chap has to say on Monday onwards and see what's applicable here.

Rune

[quote]
On 2012-03-09 22:24, tiompan wrote:
There are countless western books on the subject of chi/qi even Needham covers it .
Eitel who had written about Feng Shui in the 19 th C was the one who was always being quoted in the 60 's and might be considered the reason for "earth energies "at prehistoric sites = chi at that time .
George

On 2012-03-10 02:22, Runemage wrote:
We're now comparing chi apples and chi pears - so rather than get bogged down in that, I'll agree to disagree with you.

As I said previously, I've linked to these talks so people who have never experienced "energy" can do so if they wish to, which will enable them to physically feel as well as understand what people are saying they find, encounter, detect, intuit and experience at ancient sites. Hopefully we can reach some common ground via a shared experience.

Rune

On 2012-03-10 09:52, tiompan wrote:
Rune ,without explaining the difference between the apples and pairs that seems a bit of a cop out .Are you saying that the chi written about in the Chinese classics and referred to in many recent western works may be different to another definition of the concept ?
Surely the point that despite many recordings of visits to prehistoric sites all over the world and throughout history mention of “energies “ is conspicuous by it’s absence .
Considering that these sites have always had superstition and folk lore associated with them , ideal for conjuring up ghosts , djinns and the devil , “energies “ are confined to the mid 20 th C western mind set . Of course it could be argued that the two could be conflated and what is described as ghosts ,djinns etc was actually giving an unsophisticated expression to the experience of what was actually “energies “ and similarly sophisticated moderns would never use such superstitious terms for these experiences and “energies” is more fitting for a technological culture .I don’t accept that . I don’t understand why this part of the earlier post was ignored when it’s content , “ experiences “ or lack of is what you have been at pains to encourage discussion of .
George

Quote:

On 2012-03-10 02:22, Runemage wrote: We're now comparing chi apples and chi pears - so rather than get bogged down in that, I'll agree to disagree with you. As I said previously, I've linked to these talks so people who have never experienced "energy" can do so if they wish to, which will enable them to physically feel as well as understand what people are saying they find, encounter, detect, intuit and experience at ancient sites. Hopefully we can reach some common ground via a shared experience. Rune

On 2012-03-10 10:53, Runemage wrote:
What I'm keen to do is make sure anyone that does want to have a go at this course or even only a bit of it does so with no preconceptions.

To now continue debating chi in its different forms or where it's been documented is I think exerting undue influence and will discourage some people as they could be put off, so I think we can continue this after the talks to better effect. You never know, someone who previously had no idea what chi is may find they have actually previously experienced it and comment about it. But by expanding and defining it now I feel that will narrow or alter peoples' perceptions before they give the talks a shot.

Putting it another way, I feel I've invited everyone to come to see a play, for free, that's outside their usual choices of theatre-going and am keen to see their reactions afterwards. Then before they watch it, someone wants to involve them all in a public chat about the plot and have an in-depth dissection of all the characters and why they react the way they do at different times and how this affects the ending.

So no, it's not a cop-out, it's just a please wait until everyone's 'seen the play and drawn their own conclusions' then we can discuss this and more.

Rune

Quote:

On 2012-03-10 09:52, tiompan wrote: Rune ,without explaining the difference between the apples and pairs that seems a bit of a cop out .Are you saying that the chi written about in the Chinese classics and referred to in many recent western works may be different to another definition of the concept ? Surely the point that despite many recordings of visits to prehistoric sites all over the world and throughout history mention of “energies “ is conspicuous by it’s absence . Considering that these sites have always had superstition and folk lore associated with them , ideal for conjuring up ghosts , djinns and the devil , “energies “ are confined to the mid 20 th C western mind set . Of course it could be argued that the two could be conflated and what is described as ghosts ,djinns etc was actually giving an unsophisticated expression to the experience of what was actually “energies “ and similarly sophisticated moderns would never use such superstitious terms for these experiences and “energies” is more fitting for a technological culture .I don’t accept that . I don’t understand why this part of the earlier post was ignored when it’s content , “ experiences “ or lack of is what you have been at pains to encourage discussion of . George Quote: On 2012-03-10 02:22, Runemage wrote: We're now comparing chi apples and chi pears - so rather than get bogged down in that, I'll agree to disagree with you. As I said previously, I've linked to these talks so people who have never experienced "energy" can do so if they wish to, which will enable them to physically feel as well as understand what people are saying they find, encounter, detect, intuit and experience at ancient sites. Hopefully we can reach some common ground via a shared experience. Rune

On 2012-03-10 18:56, frogcottage42 wrote:
Rune, George, It's quite fun to read your bickering over the association of CHI related to archaeological sites but at least there is a glimmer of hope that you could resolve these arguments.
The Chinese must be one of the only cultures to have written records from what in most of the world is prehistory.
I should imagine that there must be written accounts of megalithic structures somewhere in the records of the many emissaries who were sent out to observe foreign culture and foster trade.
We know a great deal about peoples such as the Khmer from these records, maybe this subject is also written about?
It does make me wonder at other references to archaeological sites that may be buried in the imperial archives.
Perhaps the universities in Beijing could shed some light?

On 2012-03-11 17:50, vlad wrote:
As for discussion on qi, up there.Yeap, Rune`s mentioning of Feng Shui was quite right. Then; Chinese masters state frequently that the starting point for their Feng Shui art was once to optimalize the location of a progenitor house with respect to his parents grave. How could we apply such a statement to the European megalithic world? Are there any examples of huts or "manors" located in a conspicuous way towards megalithic sepulchral constructions?

Well; first some clarifications could be in place here. A grave could be located in a yang-centre, containing a burnt corpse residues. From that, an intention could be read of releasing "soul" as soon as possible and sending it to "heavens".Chinese statement points rather to internment without burning the corpse, within a in-centre... That is, if the forefathers are supposed to intervene continuously into the lives of their progeny.

OK. There are many fragmentary insights, which you should put together, before any picture comes out. And Feng Shui masters
do not provide cut and clear answers, even if you`d become a pupil to one of them. In this case, a tortuous way of stepwise initiations would be awaiting, laid out over many years. But you can circumvent that to some degree.

Try first to solve the question how you could tell a yang- from a yin-place. Li Ding`s "Meridian Qigong" is the source I referred to above but there are many other similar books, which can help to prepare your own bare body to the role of a geomantic tool. The one who seeks, you know...

[ This message was edited by: vlad on 2012-03-11 17:52 ]