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Moderated by : Andy B , TimPrevett , Klingon , sem , MickM , TheCaptain , bat400 , coldrum , davidmorgan , Runemage , SolarMegalith
The Megalithic Portal and Megalith Map : Index >>
General Forum >> Gaelic Placenames
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Gaelic Placenames |
Runemage
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|  Posted 14-11-2011 at 00:15
If you've ever wondered what a Gaelic place-name means, this will definitely help, a useful online resource, © by Nevis Hulme, 2010
http://www.apamapa.co.uk/Elements%20of%20Gaelic%20Place-names.htm
Please note that it may be printed for personal study so long as it is not redistributed or used for profit.
Rune
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Sunny100
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from Near Nelson, Lancashire
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|  Posted 14-11-2011 at 13:45
A very interesting link, Rune. There are many similarities with the Welsh language here.
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Runemage
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| Posted 14-11-2011 at 14:16
Thanks Sunny. I think it would be nice to have a translation of some names of sites and that it could add to the interest. For example, some of the French ones are intriguing. Many languages are much more descriptive than English and it's a shame to not know what some of the more interesting names mean.
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Sunny100
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| Posted 14-11-2011 at 17:52
Thanks Rune, I do try, whenever possible, to put the meaning of a place-name on with my site pages. As you say, it is interesting to to know the meaning and also the Irish/Scotish/Welsh/Breton translations for these places.
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frogcottage42
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| Posted 15-11-2011 at 00:24
Hi Rune,
very useful link but there are going to be a lot of variations between the Irish, Scottish and some local dialects which may cause confusion.
I think this this been written in Scottish so for instance Doire (Derry) is shown as meaning grove and Darach as meaning Oak where here Doire means deciduous woodland or specifically Oak.
So my home in Derrylough means Oak woods by the lake not grove by the lake. Although these are subtle differences the accurate meanings of place names can be vital to understanding the placement of some monuments so care must be taken.
And there are no signs of any Yew trees at Uragh! so names can conjure very different scenes to those we now see.
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AngieLake
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|  Posted 15-11-2011 at 00:25
I hadn't read this thread when I added the comment to sem's Sleeping Giant! 
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cerrig
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| Posted 15-11-2011 at 13:38
This is a comment I posted some time ago on the site page for Maen Llia standing stone, which may give an insight into why this stone has it's name.
There is a common legend attached to many standing stones,right throughout the country. it tells of a certain time of the year,usually midsummer,when the local standing stone gets up and goes for a walk down to the local stream or lake. there may be more to this than an old wives tale.
At sunset at midsummer,the shadow from Maen Llia is at its longest.it stretches for over 300 meters down the hill. it goes through the stream the afon Llia onto a small hillock. on top of this hillock is a cairn.
The shadow,because of the shape of the stone and the angle of the setting sun,does indeed look like a tongue,and it could be seen as going down to the stream for a drink. if you combine this with the alternative translation for "Llia",which is to "lick or to lap", then "Maen Llia" is literally the licking stone, or the stone that licks(or laps).
This raises the question,was this scenario a deliberate part of the design,or was it noticed after the stone was raised, and the name came from that?
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AngieLake
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| Posted 15-11-2011 at 21:45
Fascinating info about that stone Cerrig.
I'm sure you're absolutely right, esp if it means 'licking' or 'lapping' stone. Its shadow would certainly be tongue-shaped.
If it touched the cairn on a significant festival like midsummer, that would be pretty convincing to me that it was intentional.
I also thought that a significant post once stood to SW of the sarsen circle at Stonehenge and cast its shadow onto the 'spine' of Stone 16 at Winter Solstice sunset, maybe signalling the start of ceremonies.
Have proved that was possible with my own shadow projected from the public footpath at sunset on 17 Dec 2008.
That's a bit of reverse-thinking to what you've suggested, but nevertheless, quite possible.
(Alex Down watched me dowse this post's position on 21 June 2009, and plotted it, and our subsequent ritual-type path that followed. He's passed on now, and maybe knows the answers to all these mysteries. Meanwhile he was kind enough to give me the groundplan.)
Jack Morris Eyton would agree with your theory, having studied shadows and where they point for years now.
I wonder where the stones' 'dancing' tales come from? Could that be just from the movement of the shadows? What do you think?
Keep up the good work Cerrig.
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cerrig
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| Posted 15-11-2011 at 22:59
I have been able to study Maen Llia's shadow a bit more since I first posted about it, and a more accurate picture has emerged. While most of my previous post holds true, the part about it reaching the hillock topped by Rhyd Uchaf cairn no longer happens.
The sunset shadow can be traced from midwinter to midsummer, and back. This tells an intriguing story. The shadow first enters the stream at sunset on April 7th. Due to the way that Maen Llia is set up in relation to it's surroundings, this is also the day that the sun first shows itself rising at 90 deg due East, as seen from Maen Llia. A fact marked by the sunrise shadow pointing at a significant stone.
It's also the day that the sun set's, as seen from Maen Llia, at 270 deg due West. A fact marked by the sunset shadow just passing a small crest and then racing down a slope into the stream for the first time in the year. The shadow at this moment lengthens considerably from the maximum of the day before. It is quite a definite tipping over point, and the effect,as opposed to the day before, is surprisingly clear cut.
The shadow then reaches into the stream just before sunset right up to midsummer. Just after it reaches the stream the shadow from the hill to the West catches it up and swallows it. It does look a little like a mouth closing around a tongue.
Sometime in early June, due to the bend in the stream and the sun setting a little further North every day, the shadow leaves the stream and climbs to the crest of a small mound ( natural ). In the time of Maen Llia's erection, the sun would have set a little further North. This would have had the effect of sending this shadow over the top of the mound and down the slope until it reached the base of the hillock that Rhyd Uchaf cairn sits atop.
For all this to come true, the siting and the sizing of Maen Llia , in relation to the surrounding hills and the stream , has to be exactly right .
Another curious fact concerns the relationship between the full moon and the sun. Wherever the full moon rises, 6 months later the sun will also rise. As the full moon is bright enough to cast a shadow, the same effect will occur with Maen Llia, but only around the time of full moon. As it is 6 months away from the sun, the Full moon shadow would occupy the stream in the winter period, and the sun shadow would occupy the stream in the summer period. The switchover would occur around the time of the Equinox's.
Whoever set this up was very clever indeed. 
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AngieLake
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from Newton Abbot, Devon
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| Posted 16-11-2011 at 00:15
Wow, that really is amazing Cerrig.
You're fortunate to live so close to the stone (I presume you do, anyway) to make those long-term observations, and it must have felt wonderful when you realised what you'd witnessed.
We're privileged to hear it [first?] on Meg P.
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cerrig
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| Posted 17-11-2011 at 03:31
I'm very happy to share this with you and everyone else on MegP Angie. I have been encouraged to keep looking for these kind of events by the community spirit here, so it's only right you should get the " world exclusive". 
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Andy B
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| Posted 17-11-2011 at 11:09
Thanks Cerrig, can we post this on the site page and report it in the news items as I think it's an observation worthy of this - would you like to expand it a little into a full 'feature article?
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cerrig
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| Posted 17-11-2011 at 18:22
I'd be happy to expand it a little Andy. I have some photo's and diagrams that would probably help with the explanation too . I'll get onto it.
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rogeralbin
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| Posted 04-12-2011 at 01:00
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On 2011-11-14 14:16, Runemage wrote:
Thanks Sunny. I think it would be nice to have a translation of some names of sites and that it could add to the interest. For example, some of the French ones are intriguing. Many languages are much more descriptive than English and it's a shame to not know what some of the more interesting names mean.
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I did suggest down below some while back that a glossary of place names might be useful, bringing together the various modern language defenitions to help understand the functions of sites.
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rogeralbin
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| Posted 04-12-2011 at 01:42
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On 2011-11-15 13:38, cerrig wrote:
This is a comment I posted some time ago on the site page for Maen Llia standing stone, which may give an insight into why this stone has it's name.
There is a common legend attached to many standing stones,right throughout the country. it tells of a certain time of the year,usually midsummer,when the local standing stone gets up and goes for a walk down to the local stream or lake. there may be more to this than an old wives tale.
At sunset at midsummer,the shadow from Maen Llia is at its longest.it stretches for over 300 meters down the hill. it goes through the stream the afon Llia onto a small hillock. on top of this hillock is a cairn.
The shadow,because of the shape of the stone and the angle of the setting sun,does indeed look like a tongue,and it could be seen as going down to the stream for a drink. if you combine this with the alternative translation for "Llia",which is to "lick or to lap", then "Maen Llia" is literally the licking stone, or the stone that licks(or laps).
This raises the question,was this scenario a deliberate part of the design,or was it noticed after the stone was raised, and the name came from that?
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Purely for speculation and the similarity between the names of Maen Llia and Lia Fal I suggest a dip into James Mc KIllop's Dictionary of Celtic Mythology with referance to Lia Fail/ Lia Fal at Tara , Ireland. Also Fergus (man of vigour) Mc Reoch, Lia Fal being known as Bod (penis) Fergus, even today the term Bodair (erection) is the correct term in Guernesiais for sexual excitement or to "cock" a firearm the other side of the Celtic Sea.
Possibly the referance that Fergus needed seven Women to satisfy him has some bearing on the positioning of other features in the landscape at different times ie seven of the thirteen Lunar Months?
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cerrig
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| Posted 04-12-2011 at 08:14
Quote:
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On 2011-12-04 01:42, rogeralbin wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-11-15 13:38, cerrig wrote:
This is a comment I posted some time ago on the site page for Maen Llia standing stone, which may give an insight into why this stone has it's name.
There is a common legend attached to many standing stones,right throughout the country. it tells of a certain time of the year,usually midsummer,when the local standing stone gets up and goes for a walk down to the local stream or lake. there may be more to this than an old wives tale.
At sunset at midsummer,the shadow from Maen Llia is at its longest.it stretches for over 300 meters down the hill. it goes through the stream the afon Llia onto a small hillock. on top of this hillock is a cairn.
The shadow,because of the shape of the stone and the angle of the setting sun,does indeed look like a tongue,and it could be seen as going down to the stream for a drink. if you combine this with the alternative translation for "Llia",which is to "lick or to lap", then "Maen Llia" is literally the licking stone, or the stone that licks(or laps).
This raises the question,was this scenario a deliberate part of the design,or was it noticed after the stone was raised, and the name came from that?
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|
Purely for speculation and the similarity between the names of Maen Llia and Lia Fal I suggest a dip into James Mc KIllop's Dictionary of Celtic Mythology with referance to Lia Fail/ Lia Fal at Tara , Ireland. Also Fergus (man of vigour) Mc Reoch, Lia Fal being known as Bod (penis) Fergus, even today the term Bodair (erection) is the correct term in Guernesiais for sexual excitement or to "cock" a firearm the other side of the Celtic Sea.
Possibly the referance that Fergus needed seven Women to satisfy him has some bearing on the positioning of other features in the landscape at different times ie seven of the thirteen Lunar Months?
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That's very interesting Roger. I have also wondered about the similarity in the names, but never found much of a link. Maen Llia does indeed look very Bod like when viewed from North or South, and when viewed from East or West it looks more like a Shamrock, so maybe there is something Irish about it, and there are plenty of Irish type influences elsewhere in Wales too . I always thought Maen Llia was a bit of a male/female thing, depending on your viewpoint, so to speak.
There would be 7 full moons in the winter period, when the sun's shadow isn't in the stream ( sept 3rd to April 7th ) so you may have something there , but Fergus isn't a name that i've come across before. Perhaps there is a Welsh equivalent?
Cerrig
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rogeralbin
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| Posted 04-12-2011 at 19:16
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On 2011-12-04 08:14, cerrig
That's very interesting Roger. I have also wondered about the similarity in the names, but never found much of a link. Maen Llia does indeed look very Bod like when viewed from North or South, and when viewed from East or West it looks more like a Shamrock, so maybe there is something Irish about it, and there are plenty of Irish type influences elsewhere in Wales too . I always thought Maen Llia was a bit of a male/female thing, depending on your viewpoint, so to speak.
There would be 7 full moons in the winter period, when the sun's shadow isn't in the stream ( sept 3rd to April 7th ) so you may have something there , but Fergus isn't a name that i've come across before. Perhaps there is a Welsh equivalent?
Cerrig
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Here the to West of La Loungue Pierre is a small lane, Rue de L'Ardaine (say laa dine) I have speculated if its root was in Lia there are also steams in that direction. The lane to the South of the menhir is Rue du Camp Massy (road of the field of Massy), in Irish texts Numaisi is given as one of the wives of Angus Og. Interestingly the lane connects L'Ardaine with an area named L'Eclet (modern French eclat Eng Brilliant as in brilliant Sun) to the SE of the menhir.
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tiompan
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| Posted 04-12-2011 at 19:36
Fergus is Q Celtic the Brythonic (P Celtic ) would be something like Urguist .
George
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Fergus isn't a name that i've come across before. Perhaps there is a Welsh equivalent?
Cerrig
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rogeralbin
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| Posted 05-12-2011 at 08:26
[quote]
On 2011-12-04 19:36, tiompan wrote:
Fergus is Q Celtic the Brythonic (P Celtic ) would be something like Urguist .
George
August ?
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tiompan
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| Posted 05-12-2011 at 10:14
Virile etc.
Quote:
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On 2011-12-05 08:26, rogeralbin wrote:
[quote]
On 2011-12-04 19:36, tiompan wrote:
Fergus is Q Celtic the Brythonic (P Celtic ) would be something like Urguist .
George
August ?
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