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Stones Forum >> Protests against modern stone carvings on Ilkley Moor
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Protests against modern stone carvings on Ilkley Moor |
brigantia
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|  Posted 27-09-2011 at 02:30
A report in 'The Independent' newspaper on how some of us are against the carving of stones on Ilkley Moor, seeing it as little more than officially sanctioned vandalism (if you or I wanted to carve some stuff, would we be allowed?):
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cultural-olympiad-is-desecrating-our-sacred-stones-say-druids-2361451.html
One of the stones to be carved on looks like it may have cup-markings on it, but it's another one of the many unregistered sites.
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Andy B
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| Posted 27-09-2011 at 18:36
Very good - I like the way they have you down as 'druids' - is this journalese shorthand ie 'if you're interested in ancient stones and not an archaeologist then you must be a druid' or did you encourage this angle?
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brigantia
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| Posted 30-09-2011 at 01:31
Hi Andy -
Quote:
| On 2011-09-27 18:36, Andy B wrote:
Very good - I like the way they have you down as 'druids' - is this journalese shorthand ie 'if you're interested in ancient stones and not an archaeologist then you must be a druid' or did you encourage this angle? |
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I didn't encourage it. Cos I wasn't an official archaeologist, who don't tend to open their mouths about their fellow council workers trying to pull a fast one (jobs on the line, as we know), he tried a coupla times with the druid/pagan slant. Dave dropped that one in! To be honest though, he was a decent reporter. The Press like to get headlines and that's the one they used. Intriguingly the local paper, Ilkley Gazette, has been kept quiet on this story, as the Ilkley Literature Festival who are sanctioning this vandalism, pay good advertizing money to them - so wanna keep clear of making waves. Such is the influence of 'business'.
Various official bodies appear to have taken back-handers in this, and we're getting more insulting emails (double the amount I usually receive!) than clear responses to our official enquiries. Very telling indeed. Ilkley Council it seems have a bittova history of dodgy dealings and bullying. But the people involved in this short-sighted project seem oblivious to the fact that it'll encourage further vandalism (tbh, they don't really care). We've already got enough graffiti on our cup-and-rings, but the Council and one of its wealthy business associates has now deemed vandalism on the moors as - get this! - a "tradition" of "“twentieth / twenty-first century informal unauthorised carving”. So validating their own actions - along with paying 'emselves more than £100,000 in the process and calling it 'art'. It's an utter disgrace frankly.
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Andy B
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| Posted 30-09-2011 at 15:07
I posted a wry comment about you being Druids (not) in the comments and thought people would like to see a link to our map of nearby sites, the 'Disqus' moderators have censored it, presumably because of the link, bloody people.
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brigantia
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| Posted 30-09-2011 at 22:11
Quote:
| On 2011-09-30 15:07, Andy B wrote:
I posted a wry comment about you being Druids (not) in the comments and thought people would like to see a link to our map of nearby sites, the 'Disqus' moderators have censored it, presumably because of the link, bloody people. |
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That's bad of 'em. Try it again, but without the link and see if they allow it.
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brigantia
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| Posted 03-10-2011 at 00:53
Looks like they've allowed it now, Andy. 
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coldrum
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| Posted 04-10-2011 at 13:48
This story reminded me of the rock carved poem at the Wizard's Well at Alderley Edge:
'Drink of this and take thy fill for the water falls by the Wizhard's will'
Carving something on rock faces be it pictures or writing goes back thousands of years even before the rock art on Ilkley Moor.
Not saying I agree with the project but the idea of making your mark on rock is still with us despite thousands of years of change.
Something deep rooted there I think.
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Sunny100
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| Posted 23-10-2011 at 20:11
The Stanza Project poets are still at it upon Ilkley Moor. Its a shame that these people have to do this - why can't they do it somewhere else - in a city centre shopping centre, perhaps. 
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brigantia
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| Posted 23-10-2011 at 22:35
News comes thru that this vandalism is also gonna be executed on the southside of the moors, at Rivock Edge, where a number of cup-and-ring stones exist - and there are others we've found that aint yet scheduled. And all in the name of 'art' - with £130,000 for the small bunch of 'em involved.
Druidic Dave has set-up a Facebook page, for those who might wanna sign-up to help oppose this bollox, here:
http://www.facebook.com/groups/goim123/
Paul Devereux, Phil Hine and others are on-board and giving support.
The worrying thing is they're not telling us where they intend to vandalise. In fact, the main culprits behind this scam (Rachel Feldberg, Simon Armitage, Pip Hall & Tom Lonsdale) refuse to communicate, despite them violating and ignoring regulations which you or I would have to adhere to. And all this after Feldberg said, when this scam was first proposed a coupla years ago, "we want to emphasise that we do not want to do anything in any way that will upset anyone or damage the moors." But now she's doing exactly the opposite of what she promised. Isn't that what's called 'a lie'?
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Sunny100
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| Posted 24-10-2011 at 09:58
I believe that some of the stones they are inscribing their poetry on have faint cup-marks on them, is that correct ?
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Andy B
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| Posted 24-10-2011 at 22:23
What regulations are they ignoring?
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brigantia
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| Posted 25-10-2011 at 00:12
Hi Andy -
Quote:
| On 2011-10-24 22:23, Andy B wrote: What regulations are they ignoring? |
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Can't say too much at the mo Andy, but no botanical or environmental assessments have been presented to ensure no protected or endangered species of flora & fauna are effected. These have to be done when any work is being executed on an SSSI or SPA region - and for good reason. Another new one to us (which I checked, just in case) was a geological appraisal. Alison Tymon of the West Yorks Geological Trust informed us last week that the first site they've vandalised with their carving "is also a protected geological site (called Local Geological Sites)", continuing: "WYGT should therefore be notified if there is any planning matter here" - but they weren't consulted. We've asked for the relevant legislation regards this, as no consultation with this body has been done with any of the 7 sites the Stanza Stones doods intend defacing. (though not all are natural rock-faces)
Also the organizer of this project, Tom Lonsdale, lied/misrepresented his case when presenting it to Ilkley Council, telling them he was the head of an organization that hadn't existed for more than a decade! Imagine if you or I did that! I've got emails from the fella saying as such! There's quite a lot more Andy, but we need to keep some of it quiet for the time being. Hope you understand.
Cheers - Paul
[ This message was edited by: brigantia on 2011-10-25 00:16 ]
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brigantia
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| Posted 25-10-2011 at 00:18
A local paper has asked me to write up the history of this case, and they're gonna publish it. I'll send you a link and the story when it's done.
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Andy B
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| Posted 25-10-2011 at 15:22
Fair enough, thanks, that's plenty to be going on with. Can you think of which cup marked site on the moor is potentially most likely to be affected - we like to associate our news with particular sites.
Cheers
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Sunny100
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| Posted 29-10-2011 at 21:38
At the 'The Cow and Calf Rocks' and a nearby quarry ? I think. Someone tell me if I'm wrong, please.
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Runemage
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| Posted 29-10-2011 at 23:59
I - for "I" read Google - can't find anything like an exact location or a list of proposed sites. Surely, because of the concern that's been expressed, by now the organisers should have come straight to the point and provided reassurance that no recognised ancient site would be included.
Here, there are two photos of completed poems so you can see the impact they have. http://www.bradfordwalking.org/stanza_stones.html
"Some of the poems will be carved onto existing outcrops, others onto introduced stones." The link to the Mist poem is at the bottom of that page.
More here http://www.pickledegg.info/2011/10/world-premiere-stanza-stones-project-ilkley-lit-fest/
"The opening night of this year’s Ilkley Literature Festival saw the proud unveiling of its own written legacy.
A sequence of poems commissioned by organisers was read in public for the first time – words penned by poet and author Simon Armitage, which are being carved in stones across the Yorkshire landscape for all to enjoy.
The poems were recited by Armitage himself, who took to the stage of the Kings Hall and revealed the locations of the rocks where his words are inscribed.
Called the Stanza Stones, they will form a trail across the South Pennine Watershed, from Marsden in the south, where Armitage grew up, to the northernmost point in Ilkley.
More than a year in the making, this was the first chance for audiences to really appreciate the true nature of the project – six new poems dedicated to water, the element which helped carve out the wild, upland landscape.
Called In Memory of Water, the sequence pays tribute to its different forms – from the beck which saws “the hillside in half with its chain” to the lowly puddle, “rain-junk” drawing in the admiring sun. These two poems will be carved into stones at Ilkley’s Backstone Beck and Ilkley Moor’s causey paving.
On Nab Hill near Oxenhope, a poem is being etched for mist – “water in its ghost state” - and Rivock Edge near Riddlesden will be home to the Dew stone. The poem called Rain is located near Littleborough and the first stone to be carved has been completed in Pule Hill, an area which Armitage explored as a youngster, and is dedicated to snow.
He also revealed there is a seventh ‘mystery’ stone in an unnamed place, waiting to be discovered."
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Sunny100
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| Posted 30-10-2011 at 17:42
Runemage, "I" for what I read on a certain website and from the man himself on that website. As I say, I could be wrong, but I think these modern carvings of poetry are away from any cup-and-ring rock carvings. I cannot be certain about that, though. You will have to get that information from "the horses's mouth" so to speak. I don't like what these people are doing, myself, and have signed a couple of petitions. I would prefer them to do there inscribing somewhere along way away, where there are no ancient sites.
[ This message was edited by: Sunny100 on 2011-10-30 17:49 ]
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brigantia
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| Posted 30-10-2011 at 23:23
Hi Andy - Soz about the delay getting back to you.
Quote:
| On 2011-10-25 15:22, Andy B wrote:
Can you think of which cup marked site on the moor is potentially most likely to be affected - we like to associate our news with particular sites. |
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The nearest officially recorded carving seems to be carving no.277 (Boughey & Vickerman 2003 survey), aka carving 119 (Hedges 1986 survey), just over 100 yards away. But the stone they intend carving on appears to have a couple of cup-marks on it. They're 'debatable' I'd say - though when I first did a drawing of the site about 25yrs back, it looked clearer than it did today. But if we compare them to some of those designated as authentic by English Heritage - also in the Boughey & Vickerman survey - they'd get the thumbs-up from them guys.
What's important though is what Simon Armitage (the post whose words intend to be inscribed on the rocks) said in September 2009, when this awful idea was first proposed, simply, "Just to assure you that there is no plan to carve poetry onto the rocks on Ilkley Moor." And Ilkley Literature Festival organizer, Rachel Feldberg also said, in the local Press, "we want to emphasise that we do not want to do anything in any way that will upset anyone or damage the moors.” It seems they were both lying.
You can read a bit more about this in the local press, on-line, here:
http://www.voiceofthevalleys.net/stanza-stones.html
...and here:
http://www.voiceofthevalleys.net/pennine-watershed.html
But it seems quite evident, as a friend & police-officer told me, "they don't seem to mind lying - and there's no law against that. But that's the sorta people you're up against."
Even weirder in this debacle is the fact that they're actually deleting some of their own websites & photos to ensure no record of what they've said is on the Net & they're actively censoring criticism of the project. Y' don't believe me? Check this one for starters:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:tD66S-J6E04J SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_razz.gif">aulprice.wordpress.com/2011/05/19/stanza-stones-development/+http://paulprice.wordpress.com/2011/05/19/stanza-stones-development/&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-a
There would seem to be reasonable excuse to say that some considerable financial irregularities have been going on here aswell. And to think, all we locals wanted was for them to take their carvings off the moors & have them in the parks instead.
[ This message was edited by: brigantia on 2011-10-31 01:33 ]
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Runemage
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| Posted 31-10-2011 at 00:44
Hi Paul,
Sorry, your link doesn't work, even if just the first half is used or if you use 'copy link location' it's 404 all the way or "Your search - cache:tD66S-J6E04J![]()
Please could you repost it?
Many thanks,
Rune
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brigantia
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| Posted 31-10-2011 at 01:35
Hmmmm.... that's odd. I've tried various times to get this to work. I guess it's summat to do with the cache-file. It's nowt impressive tbh - just showing how people who won the prize for the 'Ilkley Literature Festival' who are behind this Stanza stones project, couldn't read or write properly & had a major spelling blip on the front-cover of their portfolio, which was presented to kids and hyped as summat of educational importance - fulla grammatical errors & a biggy with the title itself.
Go to google and type in "Stanza Stones Development", then hover over the address, paulprice.wordpress.com/2011/05/19/stanza-stones-development/ - and note the cached file. If y' click on the 'Cached' bit, the page opens with all their images deleted with the mistakes. One of our crew has copied it all & says he's gonna republish it "for historical purposes"!
It's becoming a habit amongst Stanza Stones main characters. The post Simon Armitage, today, has also deleted his website of 10yrs standing:
www.simonarmitage.com
Covering up some tracks...? There is a lotta money in this plot of theirs.
Anyway, we should stick to the point I reckon & keep it about damaging the stones. It's just odd all the other things people are uncovering.
ttfn - Paul
[ This message was edited by: brigantia on 2011-10-31 01:51 ]
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