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The Megalithic Portal and Megalith Map : Index >>
Stones Forum >> Theory on moving the Bluestones
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Theory on moving the Bluestones |
plsllvn
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|  Posted 26-05-2011 at 03:02
This theory on how the Bluestones were moved relies on the ability of the Neolithic workers to raise a single Bluestone stone,4-5 tons, to an upright position from the ground and the majority of Bluestones being approximately of the same dimensions with one side of the stone being relatively flat/smooth.
Maybe moving the Bluestones was not done on an individual basis ( moving single stone from point A to point B )but done by moving a large number of stones together in a group or caravan (10 or more stones from point A to point B)? The benefit of moving the stones in a caravan would be that the workers could make use of the stones to possibly construct a “Conveyor” line that would make it easier to move all the stones!
Let me explain...
Visualize 8 Bluestones lying flat in a straight line, end to end (with the smoothest part of the stone facing up),maybe a foot or two between them, they would stretch out to about a 70-90 feet or so (the distance is not really that important).If the workers then placed a 9th stone on the 1st stone, resting on timbers designed to be used as rollers, ( with the smoothest part of the stone facing down to reduce friction), they would the then be able to use other timbers to roll the 9th stone all the way to the end of the “Conveyor” where it would be taken off and used as the next part of the conveyor- they just moved a 4-5 ton Bluestone 70-90 feet with very little effort, add more stones in place the further you can go!
The process would then be repeated until all of the stones in the caravan have been moved to the end of the “Conveyor “and then they would go back to the 1st stone, place it on the 2nd stone and start over again at which time the whole “Conveyor” has moved.
Obviously, not all of the Bluestones could be used as part of the “Conveyor” but maybe all of the stones could be moved using the “Conveyor”.
It should also be possible to steer the “Conveyor” so that it is in the position to place a Bluestone in its final resting position, just roll it off the end and use gravity to drop it in an already dug hole!
It is pretty easy to see that the hardest part of this setup is manipulating the stones up on to and then down from the “Conveyor” stones but it appears that the Neolithic people would have been able to do this. Navigating tough terrain would also present problems with this type of solution.
Moving the Sarsens
If the Neolithic people were able to construct this type of “Conveyor” to move the Bluestones then they may have been able to move the much larger Sarsen stones by using one or more “Conveyors”. It may have been easier to use 2 or 3 “Conveyors” and twist the Sarsen stone sideways to even out the weight and also allow more people to get behind the stone to push as well as having people/animals in the front pulling.
Thanks
Paul
 
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plsllvn
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| Posted 30-05-2011 at 16:21
Here are a few more pics.
Does anyone think that stones at Stonehenge could have been moved with this kind of setup?
Thanks
Paul
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Runemage
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| Posted 30-05-2011 at 17:40
It's as feasible as some suggestions and more feasible than others I've seen over the years, thanks for your ideas, they're so well illustrated.
Truth is no-one knows for sure exactly how the Bluestones got from their location - or possibly locations, across such varied terrain or by sea or glacier. You could be right!
Have you read this recent article and comments? http://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=2146413758
Rune
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PeteG
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| Posted 31-05-2011 at 00:47
very nice thought Paul but I think it would only work on the avenue leading up to stonehenge.
The terrain in Wales and the route to Wiltshire from there would make it impossible to use this technique.
Well done for being original though,
PeteG
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James
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| Posted 31-05-2011 at 19:09
Greetings, and Thanks for the idea! Many Stones will now Move!
/!\
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plsllvn
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| Posted 02-06-2011 at 03:37
Runemage,PeterG,James
The mystery on how the stones were moved may never be solved but it doesn't stop the conversation from continuing.
Thanks for your replies and input.
Paul
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ledgehammer
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| Posted 30-06-2011 at 19:09
Hi,
good theory,
maybe they had a solar powered truck, using black rocks! 
I personally think other aids were used , perhaps like the suggested ones at coral castle...
http://www.labyrinthina.com/coral.htm
Harmonic resonance has been suggested to me before, but have not investigated any further,
apologies if this has already been raised...
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aveburyantiquity
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| Posted 05-07-2011 at 03:46
This or brute force. ?
I go for brute force.
Good of you to post your theory though, if we stop theorising we stand still.
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cropredy
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| Posted 05-07-2011 at 20:18
The terrain is the problem, but if they knew what I consider E Leedskalnin knew, then the stones would not have been HEAVY as such, but would have been repelled against the surface, whatever the surface and whatever the terrain.
A long line of such repelled stones could then have moved in a convey method at night.
At night is important to comprehend leedskalnin.
kevin
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cropredy
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| Posted 05-07-2011 at 20:21
This five foot Latvian did build corral castle on his own, so his methods should not be overlooked imho.
http://leedskalnin.com/
Kevin
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ledgehammer
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| Posted 06-09-2011 at 20:08
The best theory I have seen for this is on a program about stonehenge cannot remember, they layed some wooden slats with a recess, placed bearings in the recess and layed identicle wooden slats above then and this held the maximum weight and with about 20 people they pushed it. They discovered in north East England the bearings which were all the same size found in different areas, this fits very very loosley, but like Kevin says the terrain is the biggest issue and would make this almost impossible.
This is the problem with any theory that follows the science that we use today, therefore I have conceeded that other means were used, means that do not fit in with the science we know about today.
Tom Graves puts it well when talking about skeptics and their abuse of science. We have senses so we should use them, but we must act methodically and scientifically.
Something has to be seen to be believed, and something has to be believed to be seen...
Kevin:
Think you might have the closest answer to the puzzle....
Tom
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sem
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| Posted 06-09-2011 at 22:37
Hi Tom
Every "archaeo" is an expert on moving stones as is every "alternative-archaeo". I often wonder if they've had to move their fridge or three-piece suite and whether they used their proposed theories for this. C's reply to my suggestions would be something like -
a) "No you're not putting bloody wooden-rollers on my new lino and the chalk-ball marks would be a real bugger to clean up afterwards!"
Or
b) "If you're thinking of levitating the sofa via the bedroom you can !"£$£" off!"
Maybe they just used the basic idea of weights and counter-weights. Just like "walking" the fridge across C's new linoleum!
Sem
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karloff
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| Posted 07-09-2011 at 14:26
Quote:
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On 2011-07-05 20:21, cropredy wrote:
This five foot Latvian did build corral castle on his own, so his methods should not be overlooked imho.
http://leedskalnin.com/
Kevin
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Hi
Methods like these by Wally who shows how to lift very heavy objects using leverage?
http://www.theforgottentechnology.com/newpage1
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ledgehammer
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| Posted 07-09-2011 at 20:40
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On 2011-09-06 22:37, sem wrote:
Hi Tom
Every "archaeo" is an expert on moving stones as is every "alternative-archaeo". I often wonder if they've had to move their fridge or three-piece suite and whether they used their proposed theories for this. C's reply to my suggestions would be something like -
a) "No you're not putting bloody wooden-rollers on my new lino and the chalk-ball marks would be a real bugger to clean up afterwards!"
Or
b) "If you're thinking of levitating the sofa via the bedroom you can !"£$£" off!"
Maybe they just used the basic idea of weights and counter-weights. Just like "walking" the fridge across C's new linoleum!
Sem
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Sem
There is no denying that individuals seemed to be able to do incredible things with stone, like the guy Kevin describes. The experiments and reconstructions I have seen don't cut it and they dont consider the terrain involved, but this is still inconclusive either way so in truth I have no idea really...
I can imagine the builders of stonehenge laughing their sheepskin socks off at us all scratching our heads... all except Kevin of course...
I would love to see a youtube clip right about now : "hint hint" 
Tom
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cropredy
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| Posted 09-09-2011 at 21:33
Ledgehammer,
I rarely venture up here due to the high level of resistance felt towards any suggestions of an alternative to accepted.
But a word about gravity, as it is the attraction of normally charged mass and matter that results in what is thought of as a force.
Think instead of layers of opposite zones of charge, and that these zones hug the mass no matter what the elevation, up a hill or down a mine shaft, the surface is the surface.
Therefore the assumption is that a pull force exists that has been called gravity, instead think of attraction with a layer of opposite charge been perhaps aprox thirty miles under the surface.
This will be where a positive zone of charge resides, with all above up to the surface been negativel;y charged.
The negative will flow to the positive, thus electricity always desires to what is termed earth.
Consider that mass can be charged to it's opposite, on a temporary basis, and if such occurs that the attraction is then away from the normal by 180 degrees, or vertically upwards.
You would then have a similer problem as when balloons are filled with helium of holding down such an attracted upwards mass of holding it down, but if You only partially inflate a balloon there is a balance point.
So consider that a stone was suitabley charged positive to a degree then hills up or down would not pose a problem.
The moon is the large capacitor that enables this to be achieved, IMHO, and Leedskalnin realised this as He was a dowser.
Nikolai kozyrev described it very similer by using a sponge analogy , and He used the words torsion fields.
The mass will quite quickly leak this altered charge after several hours and revert to normal, but many miles can be covered at walking pace in such time with a neutral weight stone.
resonance is the key to getting the charge to change, and I am working on this, but it also requires You to follow the flow pathways of the charge flows, and this IMHO is what the cursus were to enable manipulation of these along straighter routes other than the normally meandering routes that the flows follow, it is all about attraction.
The routes to rivers and sea could easily be achieved thus, with a stone been easily allowed to rest on a raft as it reverts to normal, then suitably positioned near a rivers edge to be oppositively charged, then lead along the cursus to it's desired location.
The hard bit to accept is the ability to alter the attraction, especially when everyone is so totally indoctrinated into believing that gravity is a force.
I feel the attraction of the mysteries section is stronger than the resistances I sense up here, and so I will respond to that attraction and descend.
cropredy
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ledgehammer
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| Posted 09-09-2011 at 22:20
Kevin,
I have the upmost respect for what you are saying,
it is difficult to understand what is needed to acheive the effects you describe, as the ancients had not the resources that we do have, meaning the answer will be cryptic.
perhaps we are the instrument in harnessing these forces?
Someone out there knows!
p.s I was looking forward to another multidimensional youtube clip 
Tom
[ This message was edited by: ledgehammer on 2011-09-09 22:25 ]
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cropredy
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| Posted 09-09-2011 at 22:23
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On 2011-09-09 22:20, ledgehammer wrote:
Kevin,
I have the upmost respect for what you are saying,
it is difficult to understand what is needed to acheive the effects you describe, as the ancients had not the resources that we do have, meaning the answer will be cryptic.
perhaps we are the instrument in harnessing these forces?
Someone out there knows!
Tom
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They had better resources, natures resources.
Spin, spin spin.
http://www.rexresearch.com/torsion/torsion4.htm
If this gets too heavy for up here Rune, let it be attracted elsewhere?
cropredy
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Runemage
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| Posted 10-09-2011 at 07:23
Good idea Kevin,
Here's a link to continue the alternative methods discussion.
http://www.megalithic.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=Forum&file=viewtopic&topic=4748&forum=4&start=0
[ This message was edited by: Runemage on 2011-09-11 00:54 ]
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Feanor
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| Posted 17-09-2011 at 07:40
plsllvn, et.al.
Love the pictures & the concept!
On this issue I feel that there are elements of possibility in many different theories. I'm one of those who believe that they used several means of transport along the haul-track, and the one mentioned here is certainly a possibility, for the Bluestones at least.
Taking what we know about the long-standing Culture of the People at that time, their degree of technical expertise, the materials that were available, in addition to the distance and terrain, I have a sense that they had a simple 'Down-And-Dirty' approach to the traverse. This is to say they most likely used a basic, heavily-crafted sledge and then modified it as the terrain required. The sledge itself was probably fastened to the Stone permanently for the duration (and possibly later), and that they employed rollers or the like in places where that was practical. They no doubt had 50 guys out in front clearing and smoothing the way.
A sledge can be steered and controlled for downhill portions, using less man - or oxen - power, and that the entire support network of up to 350 people could pull the sledge up any rise. (The older, much larger Trilithon uprights certainly took more).
The elegant though complicated ball-bearings-in-grooved-skid idea just isn't practical for the mass, size or distance required for moving a Stone.
Also, many people seem to think they moved this 30-40+ ton Stone in one season. 3/4 months is a popular estimate. Could well be. But maybe they took 5 years to do it. Take a break, go home and plant a few crops. Come back and move the Sacred Stone 500 yards. Go home and harvest the crop. Go to Durrington for the Winter Solstice and get treated like a King because you're on the team that's moving the Stone. Chicks love it! Go back the next summer and move it another 500 yards.
I mean ... who's gonna steal it? The entire Region is rooting for this Stone. Where's it going to go?
Chock the sledge so it doesn't sink into the spring thaw and go home for 2 months. Tune up the tools, make some more rope, and grab a few of the now-older kids to come along and lend a hand. Switch-out the oxen. It wasn't Rocket-Science. It was a way of life, and probably a happy one. Then retire a Hero.
At this point I personally think that each of the Stones represented a specific Generation in one way or another, and they imbued each with their own Ancestor/Solar/Healing ... whatever it was ... creeds, wishes and prayers, though in keeping with the overall Plan of the Universe. No one can tell me that Stone 28 isn't an intentional face with tooled eyes and brows, or that Stone 27 isn't an attempt to copy it. True - some are just 'Utility Stones' - but many have personality, so to speak.
They weren't in a hurry. This was a part-time volunteer work-force who still had responsibilities to their families and home-villages. Certainly camaraderie was born, life-long friendships were made and unity of the regional religious/political structure was maintained. Not to mention the endless prestige of being on that special team.
So yes - I imagine they used some kind of roller-system in many places. But they merely yanked on the ropes in others.
Feanor
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SecretsoftheSunSects
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| Posted 17-09-2011 at 09:30
Nice Idea
Clearly no one doubts that the rocks were moved great distances by boats, possibly up to the edge of the stone circle.
After that you have them using rollers and the other stones as the base which is a nice idea. However in the winter one can replace the bottom blocks with ice/snow and push the blocks or pull them quite easily without leaving a trace of evidence as to how the greats stones were mushed into place.
Obviously there are also possibilities that can use ice to leave the stones balanced over the previously dug holes and come the thaw they could just fall into place. Wouldn't that be time-consuming but much less effort and tools? I still think rollers, levers and ropes were used extensively, but snow and ice could really take some of the effort out.
Chris
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