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Moderated by : Andy B , TimPrevett , coldrum , Klingon , MickM , TheCaptain , bat400 , davidmorgan , Runemage , SolarMegalith , sem
The Megalithic Portal and Megalith Map : Index >>
Stones Forum >> theory
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emmski
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|  Posted 27-04-2011 at 09:24
I'm new to blogs, and I'm new to megaliths, but I've been reading about them on the internet for a [meager] couple of weeks, and I have a theory, so I thought I'd share it here so that others could review it and [probably] shoot it down. It's kind of silly, but I haven't seen it reported before, so here goes.
Basically, I wonder if some of these megaliths are what is left of some early efforts to create the strongest possible "bomb shelters" or artificial caves or underground hiding places so that people could protect themself from the occasional hail of comets and space rocks (Taurid or otherwise) that periodically pummelled the earth. The start of the megalith period coincides with the major comet strikes described in comet catastrophe theories, and I can't think of why else such strong and heavy stones would be used/needed for purely religious or astromical purposes. Most of the soil and plant life that constituted the "roof" of the shelters has long since eroded away, leaving only the "pillars" (and occasionally a solid wall or a cross beam, or maybe a line of pillars) that formerly held up and supported the earthen roof. Thus, when we see megaliths, we are really seeing the remaining "frames" of these almost completely eroded comet/bomb shelters.
I don't deny that many of these megaliths were aligned for astronomical reasons. My guess is that these "comet storms" were pretty ugly business, and the people aligned these shelters so they could see into the areas of the sky where the comets/bollides were expected to come from, and could do so from the safety of their shelter.
That's all I've got. I know it's not much. Let me know where you think I'm off base or where I might look to test the theory. Thanks
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TheCaptain
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| Posted 27-04-2011 at 10:03
Well, that's a new one to me emmski, but no dafter than many other theories.
I personally don't really agree with any of the abstract theories that people come up with, I don't really see why there should be any great theory at all. To me, they were just places that the ancient people used for whatever purpose, be it burial, ceremonial or communal.
But the interesting thing is that nobody knows, and we are unlikely to know what the true purpose of these great monuments really was. Which leads on to being able to sit and ponder, and let the imagination free to come up with whatever you want it to.
Anyway, welcome to the Megalithic Portal.
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Runemage
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| Posted 27-04-2011 at 10:15
Most of the constructions you refer to like passage mounds aren't large enough inside to hold a village full of people. Also, they have very awkward entrances, many have to be crawled into and out of, some of the passages are 20 feet or more long, so not an easy way to find shelter in an emergency. In addition, many are not built anywhere near habitation.
Perhaps if you visited some you'd have a better idea.Armchair theorising by looking at photographs is nothing like the experience itself of seeing the site in its landscape setting, its scale and then with a little research to finding out what was around it in contemporary times.
Where are all the craters from these comets? Surely if they were such a threat that nationwide defences had to be put into place, our landscape should hold the evidence today?
Rune
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emmski
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| Posted 27-04-2011 at 14:55
Thanks for the welcome. I hope to learn more.
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emmski
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| Posted 27-04-2011 at 15:09
Thanks. I hope to visit Newgrange next month, though I've heard it's a shadow of its former self.
As for the comet craters, I'm no expert, but think the comet theorists believe that the big pieces generally hit the water or explode overhead Tunguska-style, and the little pieces hit the ground and make holes that are eroded over time. There is an interesting book and theory about the Taurid meteor shower that is worth googling for details, especially regarding the periodic impacts and their effect on global climate. Supposedly they hit just before the historic dark ages. And there's a similar theory about a comet or meteor that hits and gives rise to the Sodom and Gomorrah stories.
I just can't think of why anyone woould haul around such big rocks unless the cause was life threatening.
Anyway, thanks for replying.
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Sunny100
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from Near Nelson, Lancashire
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|  Posted 27-04-2011 at 16:16
Like a prehistoric wartime pillbox then. Interesting theory. I wonder whether they had the 'home guard' in those day with Captain Mainwaring manning the the strategically placed window holes hoping to shoot down the comets - as it were. Its one theory i have never heard of before, but you never know there could be something in it.
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TheCaptain
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| Posted 27-04-2011 at 17:31
when I visited Newgrange, it gave me the opinion that it had all been Disneyfied, and made into a theme park ride.... But worth seeing nevertheless.
Wind time on several thousand years from the megalith builders, and we get the Cathedral builders. To me, perhaps, much the same. But I dont think anyone could claim that they were for life threatening defence.
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John_Seaford
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| Posted 27-04-2011 at 18:53
I love it! Thanks for sharing!
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Runemage
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| Posted 27-04-2011 at 19:36
It will be very interesting to read an account of Newgrange from your perspective, I'll look forward to it 
>>>I just can't think of why anyone woould haul around such big rocks unless the cause was life threatening. <<<
That's the attraction, none of us know what the builders' motivation was.
Rune
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emmski
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| Posted 28-04-2011 at 06:01
I wonder. Some of those cathedrals took a long, long time for lots of people to build. Some would say that those people were motivated by the Church's threat of their being denied an eternal afterlife.
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cerrig
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from Brecon Beacons
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| Posted 28-04-2011 at 08:57
I am wondering whether there is a point in the Earths orbit around the sun when it would be more likely to be hit by a comet or meteor. We do pass through showers of meteors at different times of the year ( Geminids etc) so maybe there is a date when a strike from a big one could be expected?
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bat400
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from South Central Indiana, US
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| Posted 29-04-2011 at 04:40
Quote:
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On 2011-04-27 09:24, emmski wrote:
....The start of the megalith period coincides with the major comet strikes described in comet catastrophe theories, .... |
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But, does it? Strikes me [no pun intended] you try to confirm whether or not this is true as Step 1. (And how valid do the "comet catastrophe theories" appear to be in the first place?)
And if it were true, how long does each period (megalithic building; comet catastrophe) last? Is there a match? If a comet strike didn't occur in an area for a number of generations, would they continue to build the structures? for the same reason?
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emmski
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| Posted 29-04-2011 at 07:52
Nice questions. I wish I had more certain answers. Here's my best shot from the hip for now.
As I read the comet timing sites, there were comet strikes in roughly the following time periods (BC): 12500, 10900 (the one that supposedly fried North America and killed the Clovis people), 9500 (thought by some to be the source of the Great Flood legends), 7640 (in 7 places around the world, including south of the coast of England; possibly from Taurid), 3150 (also suspected to be the source of the flood legend), 2345 (also, maybe flood legend, maybe Taurid), 2213 (Hale Bopp), 2193, 1628, and 1198. I'll try to check the dates again.
My impression is that megaliths started to be built around 3100 or so. (Gobekli Tepe is an outlier both in time and geography).
A very close alignment of the dates seems unlikely, as comet impact dates and megalith dates are uncertain.
My guess (hypothesis?) is that people would build these shelters shortly after a comet storm kicked their collective behinds, but the structures would fall into disuse after a period of time. Then people would come to use the shelters for other purposes, such as cemetaries or religion or as a more stable foundation for astronomical observations. Then if another comet storm occurred, more people would see the value of building more shelters, which would then fall into disuse, etc.
Most of why I think it's possible, though, is that (1) I can't imagine why anybody would go to the trouble of building/cutting/hauling these structures unless they thought that some monstrous calamity was about the befall them, (2) I can't imagine what other calamities would qualify, and (3) a lot of the megalithic structures do look [roughly] like they could have been the framework for "bomb shelters" in the past. For example, Newgrange looks like someone tried to build a cave.
Now, all we have is the "chimneys after a housefire," so to speak.
Anyway, hopefully it's worth considering.
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Runemage
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| Posted 29-04-2011 at 13:17
Hi Emmski, I'm not sure if you already know, so if not, this may be useful for your Newgrange visit.
Because of its popularity, you can only see the site via a guided tour from the visitor centre. When you arrive, you have to book. Please also allow enough time to include Knowth on your itinerary. It doesn't cost a lot more but visiting the two sites will show you the largest concentration of megalithic art in europe, for me that would be a shame to miss when I was literally on the doorstep. Plus it will let you see several passage-mounds so you can see how your theory would work in practise.
There's not a lot of free time to look around at your leisure, so do go prepared with an itinerary of things you want to look at.
If you have time you could also pull in Dowth and Fourknocks. Here are the links for Knowth Dowth and Fourknocks.
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emmski
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| Posted 29-04-2011 at 16:54
You know your stuff, Rune. Thanks.
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sem
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| Posted 30-04-2011 at 01:58
Didn't "Uriel's Machine" suggest something similar - regarding comet strikes?
The best I've got is Mt Heckla in Iceland from c2300BC exploding with even better/bigger explosions 1200-1000Bc.
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emmski
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| Posted 30-04-2011 at 04:09
You are right about Uriel's Machine. I haven't read the book, but I've read about it.
I think even before that book, another a book was written --the Cosmic Serpent -- by scientists names Clube and Napier, and later books and articles were written by guy named Mike Baillie, who reviewed tree ring anomalies and compared them to comet strike data.
The themes of those books and articles are pretty much the same: periodically, lots of comet parts (and occasional the comets themselves) hit the earth, killed a lot lot people, and caused profound global climate change and consequences on ancient civilizations. They're interesting theories. Some of them seem overblown and underresearched, but they're plausible.
My mini-twist is simply an effort to connect the comet theories with the megalith observations, and to suggest that one (the comet strikes) may have somehow caused or contributed to the other (the construction of megaliths).
My premise -- people will do almost anything to keep from being obliterated by a comet from outer space -- may be right, but I'm not sure if I'm riding it too far. Will they really drag 10-ton rocks from miles away just to hide in event of an impending apocalypse? I don't know, but that's the hypothesis.
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getnby
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from California
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| Posted 15-05-2011 at 23:08
At the time the passage mounds were built (the common wisdom amoung archeologists is their construction took two or three generations), the social order was matriarchal and matrilineal. To keep it simple, I will describe the operational principles governing its meaning to the groups that built them.
The lead female of the tribe spent the night in them several times a year. She would "pray" and seek for guidance. The next morning, she would leave the Mother's womb and walk to the back of the mound (the Mother's belly) where she would address the Tribe with what she hoped would be solutions to existing problems and promising plans for what they would do with the coming seasons. The experience would not always lead to certainty. Most often it provided no more than a sense of balance. But it was cherished.
She was not always alone. It was said that should she become pregnant or give birth at the time when the sun was known to visit the womb, the child would be blessed. Though there is no way to know, but one would assume there were rules about arranging things. Though it is doubtfull they understood all that much about timing back then.
So, basically, the mound's function was to serve as bed chamber for what we might call a Queen. However, they would have had no such concept. She was more like the Wizened One.
The chamber was probably as ceremonial as it was functional (it was also most likely the birthing room); used only at certain times of the year and under certain precipitating circumstances.
Any. Sorry I didn't keep that all "operational" but I am too tired to go back and correct it.
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Runemage
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| Posted 16-05-2011 at 00:25
Hello Getnby and welcome to the Megalithic Portal.
You have some interesting thoughts on the uses for mounds. This forum is for more factual archaeological and evidence-based discussions, but if you'd like to discuss your Goddess/feminine principle ideas, please pop along to our Sacred Sites and Megalithic Mysteries forum where we'd be more than happy to have this as a new topic.
http://www.megalithic.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=Forum&file=viewforum&forum=4
Rune
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emmski
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| Posted 03-06-2011 at 13:58
Rune: Well, I just got back from Newgrange. Interesting stuff, but you're right: it's such a narrow passage that it makes my "artificial cave" theory pretty unlikely. It's a lot of work to protect only a small group of people. I was more surprised, though, at how little we affirmatively know about these sites. For example, the guide explained that they're not even sure if the crystal stones (which now impressively circle and frame the front half of the structure) were originally part of the front wall or were part of the floor. Apparently the Lowth passage has such stones on the floor, not on the wall. Still, it's pretty impressive and interesting.
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