On 2011-09-22 00:00, Runemage wrote:
You're forgiven Karloff, I find it difficult to get more than a couple of paragraphs in to any 'article' in the DM without wanting to re-write it as the whole thing just grates.

I don't doubt there's no evidence for the thorn and its successors to have been on that spot for so long, lore is far more likely to be repeated than cold fact any day.

As for the original vandalism, have you ever been to Glastonbury? Have you seen how many frankly ill people wander round the town, encouraged in their delusions by the alternative industry that exists selling every imaginable psychic/astral/earth magic thing possible. Is it any surprise then that one of these people (who frankly need help, not to be told their illness is "peering through the veil man! by some purveyor of mass made crystal skulls) attacks a such a public symbol?

I've been to Glastonbury several times and enjoyed the experience. Different-looking people yes, but not ill or aggressive, mostly oldish hippies with benign smiles whenever I've been. Never had time to climb the Tor as yet, one day I will.

What do you think is so wrong with the shops there? I love to look as they sell such different things to the ones in my nearest town. Without exception, I've found the shop owners/assistants to be very clued-up on their stock and more than willing to chat about it from enthusiasm of the subject, rather than being pushy and trying to make a sale.
Some of the shops in the Healing Courtyard have an all-denominational altar inside and at certain times of the day people send absent healing for anyone whose names are entered in the book left there specifically for that purpose. It's an altruistic act, no payment or donations are requested, that's not something I've seen in shops in any other towns. If that's what you mean by encouraging peoples' delusions then I'm afraid I'm all for it.
Have you visited the Chalice Well and sat quietly in its gardens and just absorbed the perfect peace there, or even tried the waters? (Yes, they charge to visit the gardens but the water's free from an outlet outside if you don't want to pay to go in) As a general observation, I'd say the town has the largest concentration of free feelgood experiences in the country.

I agree with much of the rest of your post, but I think the Thorn symbolised more to people than misplaced sentimentality. Although I'd be hard-pushed to define exactly what.

Rune

On 2011-09-23 10:13, karloff wrote:


Hi Cerig
I think the greeting card industry would be the first to crumble!

On 2011-09-23 15:49, cerrig wrote:

Quote:

On 2011-09-23 10:13, karloff wrote: Hi Cerig I think the greeting card industry would be the first to crumble!

Hi Karlof
I think you'll find that guilt makes greeting cards bombproof, but you'd be stuffed. Still, plenty of opportunities for entrepreneurs in Glastonbury, man.

On 2011-09-23 16:03, karloff wrote:

On 2011-09-23 10:13, karloff wrote:
Hi
I'm really sorry again if my post tarnishes some illusions but.....

There are a large number of people in Glastonbury (comparitivly speaking in terms of population size) who clearly are in need of social if not psychiatric care. They are drawn there by the image of the town and although mostly harmless to others are hurting themselves through their lifestyles. Some of these individuals are violent and have some very strange ideas about acceptable behaviour.

>> I don't know what you mean about hurting themselves through their lifestyles but I see vulnerable people like that in every large town and city and others who seem to have no idea what is acceptable behaviour.<<

As for the shops, you do realise that most of the stuff in the "crystal skull" type are all brought from the same supplier, most of it is massed produced in china for the western market.

>> Do you mean the carved pieces of usually poor quality stone? Comparable to the 'exclusive top quality gemstone jewellery' on some auction type TV channels?
There are plenty rough i.e. natural crystals on sale and their provenance doesn't include passing through China. It's a good while since I was there but one shop had outstanding quality pieces and the owner really knew his stuff both the mineralogical and metaphysical. You're trying to lump quality pieces in with tourist tat here, there's a vast difference and not all the shopkeepers are the charlatans you seem to think they are<<

By encouraging peoples delusions I meant for example:
http://www.glastonburypeople.co.uk/does-Glastonbury-continue-Abuse-Disabled-Supposed/story-13011846-detail/story.html

>>Sorry, but it's not a good example. It's written by a secret closed-shop society of people who define the term disability differently to everyone else.
From your link, this is their definition of themselves, hardly an objective cross-section representing the disabled or anyone else
***Glastonbury Disabled Peoples and Supporters Group
Profile image for TGDPLF
We are a closed confidential safe group of about 20 -30 disabled people and their supporters in Glastonbury. We are radical and ultilise the social model of disability not the medical model. We oppose all ideas/actions that oppress us and challenge them.
Created by TGDPLF at 08:59 on 21/07/11***
I know the point you were trying to get across though, people paying for advice which they then misinterpret. All that 'they told me it was karma I'm disabled so it's my own fault' isn't so. It's just about the most quoted 'reason' for discrediting all complementary therapists. <<<

As for the feeling in Glastonbury it does have nice feeling BUT as it's where I live I feel a little bit more qualified to comment on it's character than tourists! The issue isn't about whether the town is nice (it is), it's that the complete managed press release about the thorn was designed to inflame people without ever considering what had really happend. Also as I said the reason why the tree isn't recovering is because of the "mystic tourists" taking bits off it! If it meant so much to these people they wouldn't do that would they

>> You live in a beautiful part of the world. I expect you have lots of visitors
Of course the press release was designed to inflame, most articles nowadays are, unfortunately the days of reporting the facts without bias appear to be long gone - to such an extent I can't tolerate much in the newspapers or on TV news, many items said to be news really are a pinch of supposition and a heaped handful of conjecture. As for the mystic tourists, anyone to whom the thorn had significance wouldn't touch it, my guess would be deliberate damage again. <<

Personaly I like all the hippies and laid back atmosphere it's the snake oil selling mountebanks who are actually just in it for the money I'm not so happy about (I know some of the Glast lot are "true" believers and so aren't meaing to rip peiople off but it is after all an industry) .
>> Once again you're lumping everyone together, it's not possible to generalise like that about all that's on offer in the town. It's like saying most traders on the internet are just out to exploit people.

Remember, no-one forces anyone to go and pay for treatment, no-one is co-erced, threatened or frogmarched into a meditation session. Of course the quality of treatment will vary from practitioner to practitioner, same as builders or plumbers or bakers. Some people are better at their chosen profession than others and in metaphysics, finding the right practitioner can take some time. They have all the usual overheads of any business to cover, families to support etc. Surely, as with all trades, word gets around and the dodgy ones are outed. Particularly in these days of instant communication.

On 2011-09-23 16:46, cerrig wrote:

Quote:

On 2011-09-23 16:03, karloff wrote:

Hi
I always considered the emotions people feel on monuments and other arch sites as either evocative feelings or awe, rather than sentimentality, which after all is a form of wistful grief rather than emotional attachment or feeling of belonging.

On 2011-09-26 09:52, karloff wrote:

Quote:

On 2011-09-23 16:46, cerrig wrote: [quote] On 2011-09-23 16:03, karloff wrote:

Oh, I was at least hoping for a job presenting coast!