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Moderated by : Andy B , TimPrevett , coldrum , Klingon , MickM , TheCaptain , bat400 , davidmorgan , Runemage , SolarMegalith , sem
The Megalithic Portal and Megalith Map : Index >>
Stones Forum >> French statue menhirs
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| Author |
French statue menhirs |
davidmorgan
Joined:
23-11-2006
Messages: 1603
from The New Forest
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|  Posted 27-10-2010 at 12:50
I'm loving these replicas that have replaced the originals - what a good idea. I suppose they've been put back in the places where the originals were?
I'm also very envious of the people who got the job of making the replicas.
What's the story of these? Are they bronze age?
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TheCaptain
Joined:
30-10-2003
Messages: 1483
from near Bristol
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| Posted 27-10-2010 at 17:35
I'm going to possibly get this wrong, but off the top of my head I think they are reckoned to be about 2000BC, so that would be Bronze Age I think. There are known to be a couple of hundred of them in the Tarn/Aveyron (Rouergue) area of Southern France, with more and more seeming to be turning up all the time now, since they have become known and desired items.
I agree about the replicas put up in the original positions being a great thing to do, with the originals kept out of harms way. But I think that there is a probem of knowing where the originals were in many cases, as many of the stones which have been out in the open for 4000 years have worn away so much that they just look like menhirs, and those stones found which have the wonderful carvings have often been found used as part of a building, or a bridge or suchlike, and so are not in their original positions anyway.
The replicas also allow full size stones to be made of statue-menhirs of which only fragments exist, which again is great to be able to see what the full thing may have looked like.
One of the many things I have been wanting to do for so many years is to put together a little article about them (and many other things) for publishing here, but of course I haven't got round to doing anything about it yet.
This is one thing I think the Portal could do much better in; summary or introductory articles about various topics. I know we have some about certain things somewhere, but they need a sort of catalogue and index so they can be found easily.
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TheCaptain
Joined:
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Messages: 1483
from near Bristol
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| Posted 27-10-2010 at 17:51
I apologise. These are perhaps much older, back to end of neolithic and chalcolithic.
Just checking on a couple of sources I have, and they say that these are thought to be between 3500 and 2500BC, based upon their fashion sense.
Realistic dating has been very limited as most are not found in context, but limited Carbon dating evidence has been performed on one or two. The main evidence of their age is by comparison of their distinctive dress items with items found within other tombs and village excavations.
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TheCaptain
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Messages: 1483
from near Bristol
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| Posted 27-10-2010 at 19:07
OK, so much for me doing stuff tonight, now I have got going on these statue-menhirs!!! This seems to be the most reasonable description I can find in English.
From http://www.jrank.org/history/pages/6535/Statue-menhirs.html
Les Statues-Menhirs et Stèles Anthropomorphes du Midi Méditerranéen are a particular category of standing stone found in parts of southern France, the western Alps, and the islands of Corsica and Sardinia. They consist of a rectangular block of stone, which in most cases has flattened front and back and a roughly rounded top. On this crudely shaped monolith are carved the features of a human or humanlike personage.
Statue-menhir carving may be in relief, leaving features standing in rounded profile, or in sunken relief, or may consist simply of incised lines. The features depicted usually follow a standardized pattern. Lower limbs are rarely shown, but are generally naked when they are shown. Upper limbs, by contrast, are commonly depicted, as is the face, with prominently rounded chin, and the hair, which often continues onto the edges and back of the stone. Occasional elements of clothing or equipment are also shown. The most common is a belt or girdle, sometimes attached to a shoulder strap. Some of the figures grasp in their hands a curved-ended stick resembling a shepherd's crook; others hold axes or bows; but the most famous piece of equipment represented on these stones is the copper dagger, frequently shown hanging from a cord around the neck.
The identity of these mysterious personages is unclear. Of the three regional groups on the French mainland, only one, the Languedoc group, shows any association with settlement site or burial monuments. The others, especially the Rouergue group, are located far from contemporary settlement sites in relatively remote areas of upland. This has led to the suggestion that they represent deities. Breasts on a few examples indicate that some of the statue-menhirs are female; others are considered male from the presence of weapons, though it is quite possible that these were also used by women at this time. The universal absence of a mouth is a feature that may indicate the ritual or belief associated with the monuments.
The south French and Alpine statue-menhirs are dated to the late Neolithic and Chalcolithic Periods (ca. 3500–2500 B.C.). This is shown both by the objects depicted on the stones and by the occasional discovery of a statue-menhir in a sealed archaeological context. At Euzet, Gravas and Montferrand statue-menhirs have been found among the remains of prehistoric farming villages dated to this period. At Sion in western Switzerland, one was found reused in a grave containing Beaker pottery (See Beakers), which probably dates to around 2500 B.C. The majority of the statue-menhirs from southern France have, however, been discovered in isolated upland or forested regions.
In sharp contrast to the statue-menhirs of southern France and the Alpine region are those of Corsica and Sardinia. These date to the second and first millennia b.c. The Sardinian examples generally have little carving, and are merely roughly shaped standing pillars. The earliest of the Corsican statue-menhirs, on the other hand, resemble those of the mainland; they are flat slabs of stone carved with schematic triangular faces and occasional weapons. In date, however, they are probably later than the mainland examples, since the weapons depicted include daggers with T-shaped hilts and cruciform handled swords of Middle or Late Bronze Age type. One theory made these Corsican statue-menhirs the work of Corsican warriors fighting against an invasion of Sardinian “Shardana” during the late second millennium b.c. The “Shardana” are mentioned in Egyptian accounts of the reign of Rameses III as one of the Sea Peoples who invaded Egypt in the twelfth century b.c. There is, however, no firm connection, despite the similarity of name, between the Shardana of Egyptian records and the island of Sardinia.
The later groups of Corsican statue-menhir are carved more completely in the round. One northern series takes the form of a human head carved fully in the round on top of a tapering rectangular pillar. These are dated to the ninth or eighth century b.c. and although they are not grave markers they may be representations of powerful Corsican chieftains.
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davidmorgan
Joined:
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from The New Forest
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| Posted 28-10-2010 at 02:38
Thanks, Martyn. I've seen some of the Sardinian ones and remembered that they were bronze age.
Impressive to discover that these French ones are so old. I find it a pity that we've only got cup and rings etc in the British Isles when there was so much representative stonework on the continent, and Scandinavia.
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