| Author |
Archaeo-astronomy question? |
transworld_Traveler
Joined:
18-10-2009
Messages: 8
 OFF-Line
|  Posted 19-10-2009 at 01:01
Solsticial alignments of many of the megaliths are detailed in numerous places. I am interested in relationships of megaliths with stars, constellations or other celestial bodies especially those that would be in the opposing skies. Take for example, the purported Heel Stone alignment with summer solstice sunrise from behind the heel stone. What celestial bodies are in the opposing sky i.e. the sky facing the sun ? What about other megaliths? the pyramids? The constellation Cassiopeia is associated with Fournocks I. What about others? How can I find this information?
 Profile
 Reply
|
Runemage
Joined:
15-07-2005
Messages: 2412
from UK
OFF-Line
| Posted 19-10-2009 at 12:53
Hi transworld Traveller,
I don't think there's an archive of factual documentation anywhere that will give you the answers you are looking for. There are many theories and many authors will dispute the conclusions of other authors.
There are computer programmes designed to show the constellations' positions at any given date although I don't know if any are freeware, but that may be one way to find some answers.
One school of thought is that looking for solar alignments would suggest the megalith builders were a male dominated society and if that's not the case then sites that have no obvious solar alignment should be checked for a lunar one.
Also, the Pyramids and Thornborough Henges ( and who knows how many other sites) are said to be earthly representations of the positioning of Orion's Belt
Lots of reading and lots of Googling will familiarise you with most of the theories, then it's up to you which one(s) you'd like to take on board and pursue, some are far more way-out than others.
Rune
Profile
Reply
|
tiompan
Joined:
09-01-2005
Messages: 2651
OFF-Line
| Posted 19-10-2009 at 13:26
Quote:
|
On 2009-10-19 01:01, transworld_Traveler wrote:
Solsticial alignments of many of the megaliths are detailed in numerous places. I am interested in relationships of megaliths with stars, constellations or other celestial bodies especially those that would be in the opposing skies. Take for example, the purported Heel Stone alignment with summer solstice sunrise from behind the heel stone. What celestial bodies are in the opposing sky i.e. the sky facing the sun ? What about other megaliths? the pyramids? The constellation Cassiopeia is associated with Fournocks I. What about others? How can I find this information?
|
|
The problem with stellar orientations is precession , unless you know the date of the suggested alignment it will be aligned on something different in a matter of decades .This is not aplicable to solar /lunar orientations .
george
Profile
Reply
|
davidmorgan
Joined:
23-11-2006
Messages: 1603
from The New Forest
OFF-Line
| Posted 19-10-2009 at 15:28
Quote:
| On 2009-10-19 01:01, transworld_Traveler wrote:
The constellation Cassiopeia is associated with Fournocks I. |
|
I don't get this association. On what is it based?
Profile
Reply
|
tiompan
Joined:
09-01-2005
Messages: 2651
OFF-Line
| Posted 19-10-2009 at 16:49
Quote:
|
On 2009-10-19 15:28, davidmorgan wrote:
[quote]On 2009-10-19 01:01, transworld_Traveler wrote:
The constellation Cassiopeia is associated with Fournocks I. |
|
I don't get this association. On what is it based?
[/quote]
Fourknocks has a very northerly oriented passage excluding any association with solar or lunar events . I imagine it's a case of somebody suggesting that it must therefore have some stellar orienation , Cygnus has been mentioned and Cassiopeia is also a northerly constellation .
george
Profile
Reply
|
davidmorgan
Joined:
23-11-2006
Messages: 1603
from The New Forest
OFF-Line
| Posted 19-10-2009 at 17:27
A quick Google brings it up:
"According to Brennan, Fourknocks I is aligned 17° east of North, which just eliminates any of the direct lunar or solar alignments with the passage (but not the chamber). However, during the stone age the passage was aligned with the helical [sic] rising of the “W” shaped constellation of Cassiopeia.
This constellation is curious in that during the stone age it would rise above the horizon after sunset, but now because of the procession [sic] of the equinoxes the star [sic] no longer rises and is observed in the sky all year.
Perhaps their science allowed them to single out this constellation during the only time in its 26 thousand year cycle it rises and sets."
http://www.knowth.com/fourknocks-mdier.htm#astronomical
Dubious stuff. Especially since they're talking about a whole constellation, rather than a single star. I wonder what time of the year this occurred.
Anyone know of a good piece of software to use for this archaeo-astronomy lark?
[ This message was edited by: davidmorgan on 2009-10-19 17:27 ]
Profile
Reply
|
tiompan
Joined:
09-01-2005
Messages: 2651
OFF-Line
| Posted 19-10-2009 at 17:37
Quote:
|
On 2009-10-19 17:27, davidmorgan wrote:
A quick Google brings it up:
"According to Brennan, Fourknocks I is aligned 17° east of North, which just eliminates any of the direct lunar or solar alignments with the passage (but not the chamber). However, during the stone age the passage was aligned with the helical [sic] rising of the “W” shaped constellation of Cassiopeia.
This constellation is curious in that during the stone age it would rise above the horizon after sunset, but now because of the procession [sic] of the equinoxes the star [sic] no longer rises and is observed in the sky all year.
Perhaps their science allowed them to single out this constellation during the only time in its 26 thousand year cycle it rises and sets."
http://www.knowth.com/fourknocks-mdier.htm#astronomical
Dubious stuff. Especially since they're talking about a whole constellation, rather than a single star. I wonder what time of the year this occurred.
Anyone know of a good piece of software to use for this archaeo-astronomy lark?
[ This message was edited by: davidmorgan on 2009-10-19 17:27 ]
|
|
Yep does seem a bit dubiious .If it's just a lark then there's plenty of software e.g. Red Shift , the Sky etc . But there's a wee bit more to it than just using the progs and that's probably why there's so much nonsense about .
George
Profile
Reply
|
transworld_Traveler
Joined:
18-10-2009
Messages: 8
OFF-Line
| Posted 23-10-2009 at 13:42
Thanks you all very much! You have been very helpful. I have been out of town & will be for another week. When I return we will further the discussions, hopefully. What I am getting at is the possibility of the megaliths being used as antennae for electromagnetic wave signals from distant time-space coordinates. The mass associated with the solar & lunar alignments could possibly be used as gravitational ‘magnets’ helping to focus those waves into the general direction of the megaliths. The mass of the megaliths may be enough to further focus the waves already attracted by the sun, moon &/or stars to their location. Light waves, I do believe are not bound by restrictions of time. Combining digitalalized light waves into programmable messages could make ‘time travel possible’ could it not? At least for information!
The question presented considering these possibilities, would be from where did such signals originate. Therein lays the need to see if there is a logical or real relationship to some area(s) of space with the megaliths. If there is a common site or sites from which the megaliths could be targeted corresponding to the solar &/or lunar alignments it would warrant further investigation would it not?
Profile
Reply
|
davidmorgan
Joined:
23-11-2006
Messages: 1603
from The New Forest
OFF-Line
| Posted 23-10-2009 at 16:14
Maybe you ought to ask these guys - http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/ - they'll probably know more about it than we do.
Profile
Reply
|
transworld_Traveler
Joined:
18-10-2009
Messages: 8
OFF-Line
| Posted 25-10-2009 at 20:47
Thanks David, I will contact Berkely when I make it back home. That will bring back some fond memories if nothing else.
Profile
Reply
|
Kerloas
Joined:
28-10-2009
Messages: 1
from Brest brittany 29 finistere
OFF-Line
|  Posted 28-10-2009 at 13:12
Hello, I'm registered on the forum because your question interresse me and I have elements on a menhir in Brittany (kerloas the biggest menhir of Europe)
I live in Brittany in Brest , this menhir is not far from me and I could well the etudier. For me it makes no doubt that the cups marks (a lot of meglithic monument have it)reprensanting the stars of a constellation , no one have thinking of that theory.
For me it's sure. maybe i have wrong.
The kerloas menhir has seven cup marks on his South Ouest side.
For me the cup marks represente the constellation of perseus.
This constellation rise just before the sunrise at summer solciste.
But i was confronted to an enigme , why the cup marks are not on the North east side ?? (because perseus constellation rise North east) it's very simple , you take place in front of a South west side standing stone and you see perseus( Like an arrow wich predict sunrise) rising up (on the North East )and the sun 1 hours after.
Sorry for my poor english ,but im french.
[ This message was edited by: Kerloas on 2009-10-28 13:14 ]
Profile
Reply
|
karloff
Joined:
20-10-2006
Messages: 604
OFF-Line
| Posted 29-10-2009 at 12:47
Quote:
|
On 2009-10-23 13:42, transworld_Traveler wrote:
Thanks you all very much! You have been very helpful. I have been out of town & will be for another week. When I return we will further the discussions, hopefully. What I am getting at is the possibility of the megaliths being used as antennae for electromagnetic wave signals from distant time-space coordinates. The mass associated with the solar & lunar alignments could possibly be used as gravitational ‘magnets’ helping to focus those waves into the general direction of the megaliths. The mass of the megaliths may be enough to further focus the waves already attracted by the sun, moon &/or stars to their location. Light waves, I do believe are not bound by restrictions of time. Combining digitalalized light waves into programmable messages could make ‘time travel possible’ could it not? At least for information!
The question presented considering these possibilities, would be from where did such signals originate. Therein lays the need to see if there is a logical or real relationship to some area(s) of space with the megaliths. If there is a common site or sites from which the megaliths could be targeted corresponding to the solar &/or lunar alignments it would warrant further investigation would it not?
|
|
Oh Dear!
Profile
Reply
|
Martin_L
Joined:
04-10-2007
Messages: 782
OFF-Line
| Posted 29-10-2009 at 14:57
"Oh Dear"  This also came to my mind after reading the quoted post. Probably this thread should be discussed in the Mystery-Department?
Profile
Reply
|
karloff
Joined:
20-10-2006
Messages: 604
OFF-Line
| Posted 29-10-2009 at 15:46
Quote:
|
On 2009-10-29 14:57, Martin_L wrote:
"Oh Dear" This also came to my mind after reading the quoted post. Probably this thread should be discussed in the Mystery-Department?
|
|
Ahhh, are we long lost twins, you look exacatly the same as me!
Profile
Reply
|
sem
Joined:
12-11-2003
Messages: 1709
from Bridgend,S.Wales
OFF-Line
| Posted 29-10-2009 at 17:06
George
Me and Peter have been trying to figure out the 17deg thing for two years. I have a list of 9 rows/aligned stones that we measured at 17or18 degrees.
What were my ancestors aligning the stones with?
Cheers
Sem
Profile
Reply
|
tiompan
Joined:
09-01-2005
Messages: 2651
OFF-Line
| Posted 29-10-2009 at 17:25
Quote:
|
On 2009-10-29 17:06, sem wrote:
George
Me and Peter have been trying to figure out the 17deg thing for two years. I have a list of 9 rows/aligned stones that we measured at 17or18 degrees.
What were my ancestors aligning the stones with?
Cheers
Sem
|
|
Sem , I know your'e in Wales but it's worth mentioning that in Dartmoor ,which has lots of stone rows they tend to be aligned on burials rather than astronomy .
A lot depends on the horizon but in this 18 degrees is too far north for the sun or moon to rise at your latitiude so it can't be the usual solstice or lunar standstill major or minor . The stones at Sannaig on Jura are oriented at 18 -22 degrees too . If it was a star you would have to know the date of the construction of the row and even then it would be conjectural .
george
Profile
Reply
|
sem
Joined:
12-11-2003
Messages: 1709
from Bridgend,S.Wales
OFF-Line
| Posted 29-10-2009 at 18:48
Thanks George
We came to the conclusion a while ago that they were aligned with some star or other, still we can't figure out which. As none of these rows have been recognised by the archaeos (let alone excavated to date them) we are stuck.
It's fun though.
Cheers
Sem
Profile
Reply
|
Aisling
Joined:
04-11-2009
Messages: 3
from Ireland
OFF-Line
| Posted 04-11-2009 at 02:18
A bit of a goose chase, but Robert Bauval *Orion mystery* etc, has referenced the software he used, not sure which book but inquiries to his web page are usually swiftly and politely answered... but an astro archaelogists dream in any case... and he's an engineer first...
Also, if fourknocks is the same fourknocks i.e. north dublin, south meath ref. in James joyce... be aware that it has been extensively renovated... both by opw and archaeologists with agenda since early 1900's... and alignments are most certainly out of kilter... modern measurements of the stones cannot square with original placement, lots of guesstimation necessary (the site like Knossos has been "evanised"... more than once)
But there is lots of info and I wish I was better organised to send you that way... but start with Bauval...
Profile
Reply
|
Aisling
Joined:
04-11-2009
Messages: 3
from Ireland
OFF-Line
| Posted 04-11-2009 at 03:06
woops, should have read the thread first.
Alignments, lunar and solar seem undeniable in all megalithic monuments in Europe... any of the ones I've visited anyway.
Stars are less certain but Draco, Polaris *we are covering a couple of thousand years here* are common and popular choices...
Our ancestors seem to have inately understood stuff like the precession of exonoques, long cycles *the 26,000 years being but a divider of Mayan calanders"
The idea of following any constellation of stars is easily po poed... but there are renditions of what would be recognisable as a 12 sign zodiac as far back as 1500 B.C (or C.E ) and it may have been accepted generally by societies from there on in *though that's a long shot and hardly scientific* - never mind have originated somewhere earlier (though again the implications are hard to swallow...)... ie that our ancestors knew the earth was round, understood the solar system and that retrograde planetary movements had to do with our perspective from earth rather than any mis step in the cosmos...
Ley lines, magnetic lines, etc. are much harder to prove and how the hell would neothlithic cultures have measured them...
At the same time the same neolithic cultures have produced art and artifacts that are so precision engineered that we don't know how they did it... from crystal skulls, to peruvian walls, to egyptian pyramids to electroplated statuetees...
Would still refer all interested back to Bauval, et alia, who have been discussing this via paperbacks since the 80's and to the like of Martin Brennan whose close study of certain sites have inspired many great leaps that are not wholly unwarrented.
We don't credit our ancestors with enough brains, and we are inclined to either demonize or deify them...
relating all this to megalithic monuments and tombs is hard... but some things, like lunar and solar alignments now seem undeniable. Keep working, other alignements and uses may also seem in 20 years time, undeniable. I for one am glad to stop calling them tombs and graveyards.
Profile
Reply
|
cerrig
Joined:
25-09-2009
Messages: 907
from Brecon Beacons
OFF-Line
| Posted 04-11-2009 at 05:00
careful Aisling, you'll be accused of having gone to university if you're not careful, like wot i did.
Profile
Reply
|
Main News