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The Megalithic Portal and Megalith Map : Index >>
Sacred Sites and Megalithic Mysteries >> Shamen practises globally
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Shamen practises globally |
cropredy
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|  Posted 30-08-2009 at 19:26
What are shaman?
What are their methods, and are they globally similer?
http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/shaman.aspx
http://www.radionic.co.uk/shamanism.htm
Kevin
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mynd
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| Posted 30-08-2009 at 20:04
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On 2009-08-30 13:14, brigantia wrote:
Do you mean exactly what you've written there George? - "no evidence for shamanism (sic) in practice?" That could be right. Though Aubrey Burl and others would tell otherwise when it comes to a high degree of probability about such characters. Truth is, there's plenty of evidence in other fields for shamanism in Britain, in folk-records, social history records, church accounts, etc. Yeah, the info there aint 100% perfectomundo shamanism, but it stinks to high heaven of it. There's plenty of evidence George. More to the point, shamanism is hard-wired into humans, it's embedded, probably genetically, as any good neurophysicist these days tells.
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Hi there
Depending on what you mean by 'shamanism' - this text which I have posted before is interesting. The term it uses is 'seers'. For the most part, in this work at least, these are people who see things whether they want to or not - though it does talk of developing such skills and the moral implications.
When you talk of shamanism being 'embedded' what do you mean? Like the pinneal gland between your eyes? What?
Rachael
(i posted this in the quartz thread but it was either missed or ignored - if the former, i am really interested in the answer... I've also asked before whether people think ESP could account for the things depicted in rock art. I know the subject of orbs is a contentious one here - but people who are sensitive in a psychic way claim to see them - and without the aid of a digicam)
(also realise psychic ability and shamanism are not the same thing - though I'm not sure where the line is drawn aside from the trance part - perhaps someone could elucidate)
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brigantia
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| Posted 30-08-2009 at 21:42
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On 2009-08-30 20:04, mynd wrote:
Hi there
Depending on what you mean by 'shamanism' - this text which I have posted before is interesting. The term it uses is 'seers'. For the most part, in this work at least, these are people who see things whether they want to or not - though it does talk of developing such skills and the moral implications.
When you talk of shamanism being 'embedded' what do you mean? Like the pinneal gland between your eyes? What?
Rachael
(i posted this in the quartz thread but it was either missed or ignored - if the former, i am really interested in the answer... I've also asked before whether people think ESP could account for the things depicted in rock art. I know the subject of orbs is a contentious one here - but people who are sensitive in a psychic way claim to see them - and without the aid of a digicam)
(also realise psychic ability and shamanism are not the same thing - though I'm not sure where the line is drawn aside from the trance part - perhaps someone could elucidate) |
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Lemme get back to you on this one. I'm knacked at the mo.
cheers - Paul
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mynd
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| Posted 01-09-2009 at 09:13
Actually - i worked out the differences all by myself (medal please) - but it raised another question.
If shamans use spirits to heal or are in contact with 'the dead' - a belief in their abilities presupposes the existence of those spirits or even an afterlife, does it not? If this ability is embedded... hmm
what I want to ask is - do folk here believe in spirits of dead / afterlife? Or are these 'spirits' something else - just energy?
I don't really believe in such things - but out of curiosity i went to see a medium last year and she surprised me to a point that i am not sure what I believe now.
Edit: I guess what I'm thinking is - I always thought the power of witch doctors was that of suggestion. So they make their patient believe they will recover - or an enemy believe they will die. And it will happen because the person believes it - and nothng more. So - where is the power of a shaman? In spirits or in the minds of those they heal? If it is in the minds of those they heal - what is this 'embedded' shamanism? Isn't it just the ability to seduce others? But if everyone knew that this was the case - there would be no power any more. Unless people could learn to heal themselves with the power of thier own mind - which could be this 'embedded' power, no?
[ This message was edited by: mynd on 2009-09-01 09:33 ]
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davidmorgan
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| Posted 01-09-2009 at 10:13
Do we need shamans any more? Since we no longer believe that illnesses are caused by evil spirits.
Unfortunately, in Africa, they seem to be out of control.
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cropredy
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| Posted 01-09-2009 at 10:47
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On 2009-09-01 10:13, davidmorgan wrote:
Do we need shamans any more? Since we no longer believe that illnesses are caused by evil spirits.
Unfortunately, in Africa, they seem to be out of control.
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The shaman or illnesses?
Kevin
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cropredy
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| Posted 01-09-2009 at 11:25
Why is DMT illegal?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKOO-VB_yts&feature=related
Kevin
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brigantia
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| Posted 01-09-2009 at 14:28
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On 2009-09-01 10:13, davidmorgan wrote:
Do we need shamans any more? Since we no longer believe that illnesses are caused by evil spirits. |
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The terms have been redefined, that's all. Where previously folk were affected by spirits, etc., today they're affected by neuroses, guilt complexes, unresolved trauma, etc. And today we don't call 'em 'shamans', we call 'em doctors, therapists & shrinks. And, as we find in traditional cultures, some are very good, some are good & some aint.
Today, instead of herbs we have pills; and the 'spirit worlds' are now 'arenas of the unconscious' as defined via behavioural experiment, isolating huge arenas of consciousness in precise categories, and treated accordingly. There are differences however: in these unevolved traditional societies where these silly witch-doctors were found, there is no drug-dependency (until we turned up). In the Western culture, where we've 'evolved' and moved beyond the stupid superstitions of witch-doctor mentalities, we find psychiatrized drugged-up Westerners everywhere - and the numbers keep growing. Good ey!? Another difference between these stupid folk and us moderns, is that they don't demonise areas of the mind and suppress them, as in the West (schizophrenia, psychoses, etc). If needs be, people are forced into these 'demons' (therapy) and made to encounter them. These potent unconscious forces are seen for what they are and no longer disempower the 'possessed' individual. Whereas modern society have them subsumed, via 'medication', so they remain embedded in the edges of conscious lives, forever intruding. The individuals in these cases remain, as our cultural mythos entrains, to be forever carrying their Cross on their back. In the other ways, we get off the cross and walk. (indeed, the Cross hasn't even been invented to become stuck upon!)
There's loads of other ingredients of course.
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| Unfortunately, in Africa, they seem to be out of control.
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I understand there's a lotta cross-pollution there with other religious intrusions. Aint they causing a lotta trouble aswell? Aint the religion of capitalism causing a loada crap out there also? (greed, murder, increase for power, rape, ecological pollution, etc) Of course, it'll all settle down once the factions have been eradicated, drugged-up or forced into democracy. Then we can say they're normal or have evolved. Innit the way of things...?
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brigantia
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| Posted 01-09-2009 at 14:33
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On 2009-09-01 11:25, cropredy wrote:
Why is DMT illegal? |
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Fear.
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brigantia
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| Posted 01-09-2009 at 14:53
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On 2009-09-01 09:13, mynd wrote:
...If shamans use spirits to heal or are in contact with 'the dead' - a belief in their abilities presupposes the existence of those spirits or even an afterlife, does it not? If this ability is embedded... |
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If the best thing I can say to you is that I'm in touch with a close relative of yours who's dead (spirit) and communicate something to you relating to issues you feel you have in life - who is that belief important for? Does the doc/shrink/shaman have any need for it? It's irrelevant to them, innit, outside of it being a simple tool? And if you/anyone wants to call it 'spirit', or energy, or medicine - as long as it works, does it matter? Idiots who wanna decry another person's psycholinguistic relationship with their reality aint worth listening to in my book. If it works, it works! Who cares what the method is!? (I know qualified doctors who believe in spiritualism, and shamans believe in similar weird shit. Doesn't really matter does it!)
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| I don't really believe in such things - but out of curiosity i went to see a medium last year and she surprised me to a point that i am not sure what I believe now. |
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Isn't belief/disbelief the same thing?
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| ...I guess what I'm thinking is - I always thought the power of witch doctors was that of suggestion. So they make their patient believe they will recover - or an enemy believe they will die. And it will happen because the person believes it - and nothng more. So - where is the power of a shaman? In spirits or in the minds of those they heal? If it is in the minds of those they heal - what is this 'embedded' shamanism? Isn't it just the ability to seduce others? |
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Seduce? That's a curious word. If you're ill and you want someone to help you, does the doc 'seduce' you into their zone and make the ailment go? Does the ill person have no free will? Or izzit not simply the purpose/ability of that person to help? By adding the cursing element here, whilst dealing (sometimes) with similar methodologies, the request and action are very different indeed. Seduction is way-off. That's a very different magickal capacity.
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| Unless people could learn to heal themselves with the power of thier own mind - which could be this 'embedded' power, no? |
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At times we need extra bits 'out of' the mind aswell, so to speak: the herbs, pills, water, food, etc. The rest of it's all embedded, yes. Though perhaps 'implicit' would be a better word to use.
[ This message was edited by: brigantia on 2009-09-01 14:55 ]
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mynd
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| Posted 01-09-2009 at 15:52
"Seduce? That's a curious word. If you're ill and you want someone to help you, does the doc 'seduce' you into their zone and make the ailment go? Does the ill person have no free will? Or izzit not simply the purpose/ability of that person to help? By adding the cursing element here, whilst dealing (sometimes) with similar methodologies, the request and action are very different indeed. Seduction is way-off. That's a very different magickal capacity."
Firstly, you have taken a question I asked about shamans and answered using modern doctors. For me, they are not the same thing. But I will go back to that. You have also picked a few choice words and made more of them than necessary - and not really anwered what I asked. Figures of speech, you know?
Simple question:
What is this embedded shamanism you talk of?
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brigantia
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| Posted 01-09-2009 at 22:25
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Firstly, you have taken a question I asked about shamans and answered using modern doctors. For me, they are not the same thing. |
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I suggest you read it again until you see what I was saying. If it doesn't relate, shake yourself - literally - and try again.
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| Simple question:
What is this embedded shamanism you talk of?
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Simple genetics, and evolutionary development.
[ This message was edited by: brigantia on 2009-09-01 22:31 ]
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mynd
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| Posted 01-09-2009 at 22:37
Please don't patronise me Paul - why don't you shake yourself until you see what I was asking? Nevermind - i don't believe you have the answer. Which is OK, if only you'd admit it!
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mikecroley
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| Posted 01-09-2009 at 22:57
Paul, remember I said i wish you were my teacher! I still stand by that statement.
Thanks
mke
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brigantia
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| Posted 01-09-2009 at 23:06
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On 2009-09-01 22:37, mynd wrote:
Please don't patronise me Paul - why don't you shake yourself until you see what I was asking? Nevermind - i don't believe you have the answer. Which is OK, if only you'd admit it!
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I answered you. If you're not able to integrate what I'm saying, please don't get insulting. You'd lose!
Now - try again! (if you're an idiot of course, you'll act like one and respond like you just have done). Do you not meditate? Correctly I mean?
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mynd
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| Posted 02-09-2009 at 09:02
Paul - that post reminds me of an office bully who once said 'report me and I'll make your life hell'. So if you don't mind, I'll leave this conversation here while my curiosity and enthusiasm are still intact. Thanks for your time.
Rachael
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brigantia
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| Posted 02-09-2009 at 15:15
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On 2009-09-02 09:02, mynd wrote:
Paul - that post reminds me of an office bully who once said 'report me and I'll make your life hell'. So if you don't mind, I'll leave this conversation here while my curiosity and enthusiasm are still intact. Thanks for your time. |
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Hmmmmm....control freak, ey? No worries miss!
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brigantia
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| Posted 02-09-2009 at 15:36
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On 2009-09-01 22:57, mikecroley wrote:
Paul, remember I said i wish you were my teacher! I still stand by that statement. |
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Not sure I'm the person you think I am Mike. Though our culture does have a distinct lack of real teachers and a very distinct lack of wisdom. Stupidity and ignorance seem to rule supreme. Such properties, as like others, are embedded!
ay well...
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mynd
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| Posted 02-09-2009 at 17:25
Like smallminded, bigoted windbaggery that has the tendency to crush curiosity and a love of learning, in order to appear clever and polish its ego, like a chrysalis 'neath a jackboot.
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cropredy
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| Posted 02-09-2009 at 17:37
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On 2009-09-02 17:25, mynd wrote:
Like smallminded, bigoted windbaggery that has the tendency to crush curiosity and a love of learning, in order to appear clever and polish its ego, like a chrysalis 'neath a jackboot.
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Windbaggery,
Fabulous, he admittadely spends much time in the hills.
Imo, that of a fool, He's one of the few thats OK, He has swallowed all the dictionaries though.
Is He what a shaman is?, do they become windbaggery?
From all I have seen they appear to spend a lot of time shouting and huffing and puffing, shaking rattles and trying to frighten all around them, hmmmm.
Kevin
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