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The Bluestone Enigma: Stonehenge, Preseli and the Ice Age |
mountainman
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|  Posted 29-11-2008 at 09:48
My book on the Stonehenge bluestones is now out (Greencroft Books, £9.95). In it, I examine some of the assumptions about Stonehenge, and give particular attention to the two theories relating to bluestone transport -- the human transport theory invented by Herbert Thomas, and the glacial transport theory. The conclusion is that there is no evidence in support of the former, and a lot of evidence in support of the latter. I don't necessarily expect the archaeology establishment to like this book! Some folks want their sacred cows to stay sacred.... 
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davidmorgan
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| Posted 29-11-2008 at 13:27
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| On 2008-11-29 09:48, mountainman wrote:
I don't necessarily expect the archaeology establishment to like this book! Some folks want their sacred cows to stay sacred.... |
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That's the sort of attitude that belongs in the basement, Mountainman.
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mountainman
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| Posted 29-11-2008 at 20:45
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On 2008-11-29 13:27, davidmorgan wrote:
[quote]On 2008-11-29 09:48, mountainman wrote:
I don't necessarily expect the archaeology establishment to like this book! Some folks want their sacred cows to stay sacred.... |
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That's the sort of attitude that belongs in the basement, Mountainman.
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Sorry if I offended you, David. But since when is that such an outrageous statement? I thought it was self-evident. There are people in ALL fields who want their sacred cows to remain sacred, and get mortally offended when anybody takes a careful look at them. I speak from experience (not in the field of archaeology) -- but when I was a young research student a certain professor, long since dead, blocked at least 2 research papers of mine just because I was demolishing one of HIS personal sacred cows. The papers were published eventually, of course, by journals that used different referees. The truth will out in the end.... 
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davidmorgan
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| Posted 30-11-2008 at 12:19
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| On 2008-11-29 20:45, mountainman wrote:
The truth will out in the end.... |
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I see you're trying very hard to promote your "truth"; you've even hijacked and spun the Wikipedia page to your view: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Sea_Glacier (with an imaginary arrow from Preseli to Stonehenge).
Yet you don't know that the ice sheet went up the Bristol Channel, as you say on your website:
"Let us hope that the current generation of glacial geomorphologists will examine this hypothesis".
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mountainman
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| Posted 30-11-2008 at 20:03
Chill out, David. You are being very aggressive. At least you've had a look at Wikipedia. But maybe you'd like to go rather further and do some other reading as well? I don't know of a single geomorpholgist or geologist working in this field in the last 30 years or so who doubts that the Irish Sea Glacier travelled EASTWARDS up the Bristol Channel, and that it crossed the coasts of Devon, Cornwall and Somerset. The evidence is there, abundantly, in the literature. Kindly go off and do some reading before slagging me off as trying to promote "my truth."
OK -- I argue forcefully, but I hope always with due regard to evidence on the ground and balance of probabilities.
Where there is still doubt is over the actual eastern limit reached by the ice. I have always admitted that and have tried to lay out the pros and cons. Glacier modelling by Alun Hubbard suggests the ice did cross Salisbury Plain. Evidence on the ground is more equivocal. I have invited other geomorphologists to get stuck in and to try and solve the problem. What would you have preferred me to do? Tell everybody to clear off and believe my hypothesis, since I am uniquely in possession of the truth? Well, that's not the sort of science I believe in.
if you have a problem with my theory, let's see the colour of your evidence.
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davidmorgan
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| Posted 01-12-2008 at 11:18
You don't deny that you've skewed the Wikipedia page towards your hypothesis. And are therefore using a circular argument when you cite your own page as a reference.
I find your methods at the very least unprofessional, verging on the deceitful.
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mountainman
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| Posted 01-12-2008 at 15:27
Don't talk to me about unprofessionalism and deceit. We have all had to put up with that on a considerable scale since the human transport hypothesis for the bluestones was first promoted by HHT. Can I remind you that after decades of repetition and elaboration and circular reasoning, there is not a single piece of evidence in favour of it? And not only have the proponents of the theory dressed it up as "the truth" ad infinitum, but many of them have descended to the level of personal vilification targetted at those (such as Geoff Kellaway) who have had the temerity to show that the emperor has not actually been wearing any clothes.
I happen to know a fair bit about the Irish Sea Glacier, having studied it since my doctorate many years ago. I have also written a fair bit about it in the scientific literature. I won't take any lessons from you as to what is or is not a reasonable citation -- and I assume that if any people whose opinions I respect want to point out deficiencies in the piece, or add corrections and other citations, they will do so. That's how Wikipedia works.
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sem
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| Posted 11-12-2008 at 00:06
Mountainman, what's the name of the book?
Personally I don't agree with the glacial theory, but any other ideas are welcome as a research tool.
Sem
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mikecroley
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| Posted 11-12-2008 at 11:58
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On 2008-12-11 00:06, sem wrote:
Personally I don't agree with the glacial theory,......
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Me neither, and I certainly don't go for the rollers and ropes brigade either. And as for aliens from Mars.......... That's b*ll*x too.
mike
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mountainman
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| Posted 18-12-2008 at 15:29
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On 2008-12-11 00:06, sem wrote:
Mountainman, what's the name of the book?
Personally I don't agree with the glacial theory, but any other ideas are welcome as a research tool.
Sem
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All is revealed here:
http://www.brianjohn.f2s.com/enigma1.html
All feedback welcomed!
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mikecroley
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| Posted 18-12-2008 at 19:59
Sounds a fascinating read Brian, well done.
mike
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mountainman
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| Posted 15-01-2009 at 17:50
In case anybody is interested, I've posted a small video on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvjyYpF1ui8
The truth as I see it. A bit different from the truthsd opn some of the other Stonehenge videos on YouTube. 
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h_fenton
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| Posted 10-02-2009 at 17:37
so all these stones to be found at stonehenge that originated in wales that your theory suggests were collected locally, have any similar sized stones from wales been found anywhere across the region in a non archaeological context? or is this something that requires further research?
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mountainman
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| Posted 28-05-2009 at 21:07
I wouldn't necessarily expect a vast assemblage of erratics over a wide area -- the entrainment of erratics could have been over quite a short period, and the dumping of them might have been quite localised. As I explain in the book, there may have been a trail of erratics that the Stonehenge builders simply followed back towards the source, collecting them all up (of all shapes and sizes) until they were all gone.... But much more work needs to be done in W Wiltshire and in Somerset. There's a new buildings survey just starting -- let's see what that throws up.
The theory is still just a theory, and has to be reinforced by further evidencxe. But there is already a great deal more evidence favouring glacvial transport than there is favouring human transport. On the latter theory, there is ZERO evidence and a mountain of supposition.
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On 2009-02-10 17:37, h_fenton wrote:
so all these stones to be found at stonehenge that originated in wales that your theory suggests were collected locally, have any similar sized stones from wales been found anywhere across the region in a non archaeological context? or is this something that requires further research?
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alanmole
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| Posted 07-11-2009 at 14:53
Rock Art and Ritual, Smith & Walker, History Press 2008.
Anyone interested in British open-air prehistoric rock art should find this interpretive study very illuminating. A series of essays based on real fieldwork including archaeoastronomy. See the Prehistoric Society Website for a review. The authors are currently working on a second volume.
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tiompan
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| Posted 09-11-2009 at 16:07
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On 2009-11-07 14:53, alanmole wrote:
Rock Art and Ritual, Smith & Walker, History Press 2008.
Anyone interested in British open-air prehistoric rock art should find this interpretive study very illuminating. A series of essays based on real fieldwork including archaeoastronomy. See the Prehistoric Society Website for a review. The authors are currently working on a second volume.
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Could you give us an example of the archaeoastronomy please Alan ?
george
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Andy B
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| Posted 09-11-2009 at 19:17
A link would be useful:
http://www.le.ac.uk/has/ps/reviews/09_01_brown.htm
Paul Bahn is a rock art ultra sceptic so a vaguely positive review from him is quite an achievement
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bat400
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| Posted 10-11-2009 at 03:23
More discussion:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/southwest/sites/local_history/pages/bluestones_glacier.shtml
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James
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| Posted 11-08-2010 at 22:01
Greetings!
ALL Information, is GOOD Information!
Keeps the Boards Buzzing, and the Peeps Peeping!
/!\
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