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The Megalithic Portal and Megalith Map : Index >>
Stones Forum >> Stansted Airport Stone, Essex
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Stansted Airport Stone, Essex |
Chalkblue
Joined:
16-08-2008
Messages: 6
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|  Posted 16-08-2008 at 10:18
My family used to farm land which is now under Stansted Airport. The old farm house is still standing on the edge of the airport and some years ago, when I visited it, the present tenants told me they were mystified by occasional visitors asking directions to "the pagan stone". My mother, who died last year at 97 years old, remembered a stone which she and other children used to play on. She said they called it "Queen (somebody's) gravestone" Could this have been the Stansted Airport Stone, now relocated to the crossroads at Takeley?
Does anybody know whether there is a record of the exact original location of this stone?
I very much regret that I cannot remember the name of the "Queen" my mother mentioned.
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Andy B
Joined:
13-02-2001
Messages: 7050
from Surrey, UK
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| Posted 16-08-2008 at 14:35
Hello, thanks for your question. Perhaps someone will know.
This relates to the
Stansted Airport Stone
http://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=12272
so I recommend you post your question there so visitors to that page will see it.
Cheers
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brigantia
Joined:
13-01-2002
Messages: 804
from Yorkshire & Argyll
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| Posted 17-08-2008 at 00:54
Hi there!
Quote:
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On 2008-08-16 10:18, Chalkblue wrote:
My family used to farm land which is now under Stansted Airport. The old farm house is still standing on the edge of the airport and some years ago, when I visited it, the present tenants told me they were mystified by occasional visitors asking directions to "the pagan stone". My mother, who died last year at 97 years old, remembered a stone which she and other children used to play on. She said they called it "Queen (somebody's) gravestone" Could this have been the Stansted Airport Stone, now relocated to the crossroads at Takeley?
Does anybody know whether there is a record of the exact original location of this stone?
I very much regret that I cannot remember the name of the "Queen" my mother mentioned.
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There are records of a place known as the 'Witch or Witches Croft' in the parish. Where exactly is/was the farm which was built over? Have you got a grid-reference for the farmhouse? And was it in the Stansted district, or just over the boundary in Takeley? Or perhaps - as you mention a queen - near Quendon? - though this seems a bit too far north. The name of the Roman Road, 'Stane Street' could give some clues aswell. Any additional info would be good.
Cheers - Paul
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Chalkblue
Joined:
16-08-2008
Messages: 6
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| Posted 17-08-2008 at 16:10
Hi Paul
Thanks for your interest and suggestions!
The farm was 'Monks Farm' and the map reference of the farmhouse is TL533234. My mother died last year and our conversation about the stone took place a number of years ago. Which is why I can't remember the name of the 'queen'. I presume the Monks were associated with Thremhall Priory to the south of the airport.
Do you have a map ref for the witches croft? There is a chunk of puddingstone, described as a a witches' stone, in the reconstructed castle at Stansted.
Curiously, mother also told of rumours of a 'secret tunnel' between the farmhouse and the castle at Stansted Mountfitchet. However I tend to disregard this story because the M11 passes through a deep cutting between the points concerned. I would expect excavation on this scale to have cut through any tunnel.
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brigantia
Joined:
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Messages: 804
from Yorkshire & Argyll
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| Posted 18-08-2008 at 20:26
Hi again!
Quote:
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The farm was 'Monks Farm' and the map reference of the farmhouse is TL533234. My mother died last year and our conversation about the stone took place a number of years ago. Which is why I can't remember the name of the 'queen'. I presume the Monks were associated with Thremhall Priory to the south of the airport.
Do you have a map ref for the witches croft? There is a chunk of puddingstone, described as a a witches' stone, in the reconstructed castle at Stansted.
Curiously, mother also told of rumours of a 'secret tunnel' between the farmhouse and the castle at Stansted Mountfitchet. However I tend to disregard this story because the M11 passes through a deep cutting between the points concerned. I would expect excavation on this scale to have cut through any tunnel.
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Cheers for the info. I'll bet your mum was a real fount of wisdom about old tales & stuff! I love listening to the old folktales from old local people....
I'm afraid I don't have a map reference for the 'witch croft', but have it listed in a work on field-names of the area. You'll be able to find out exactly where it is by visiting your local Central Library and asking to see either the Tithe Maps of Stansted, or any local field-name maps in the library. There is the possibility that the word 'witch' relates to the wych-elm tree - but that's something you'll need to work out thru cross-referencing early spellings and any modern place-name studies of the region (the original Place-Names of Essex by Mr Reaney is more than 70yrs old and a more detailed study of the region would be needed to get further info on this). I think that the Witch Stone you mention at the castle probably has something to do with it though. I'd like to know a bit more about this Witch Stone by the way - any chance you can get more info and add it to the MegPortal website? Twouldst be greatly appreciated.
The 'tunnel' legend you mention isn't perhaps as tenuous as you'd think. Many tunnel legends tend to be symbolic and in some cases can be the last vestiges of an alignment. Just having a quick scan at the line of the tunnel which you describe between Monks Farm and the castle is getting pretty close to a summer/winter solstice line. But again - you'd need to check this out more accurately.
One final thing: is there a visible valley (or geographical dip) from Monks Farm, or the castle, up to the township of Quendon? Any tunnel or other legends relating these sites with each other? I'm doing some research into 'queen' place-names and mythic female characters, though there doesn't seem to be as much a prevelance of these in southern England as 'up north' - but I'm into anything I can find on such matters.
Cheers - Paul
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martinwatt
Joined:
18-10-2007
Messages: 2
from Essex
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| Posted 19-08-2008 at 14:49
Quote:
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On 2008-08-18 20:26, brigantia wrote:
Hi again!
[quote]
The farm was 'Monks Farm' and the map reference of the farmhouse is TL533234. My mother died last year and our conversation about the stone took place a number of years ago. Which is why I can't remember the name of the 'queen'. I presume the Monks were associated with Thremhall Priory to the south of the airport.
Do you have a map ref for the witches croft? There is a chunk of puddingstone, described as a a witches' stone, in the reconstructed castle at Stansted.
Curiously, mother also told of rumours of a 'secret tunnel' between the farmhouse and the castle at Stansted Mountfitchet. However I tend to disregard this story because the M11 passes through a deep cutting between the points concerned. I would expect excavation on this scale to have cut through any tunnel.
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Cheers for the info. I'll bet your mum was a real fount of wisdom about old tales & stuff! I love listening to the old folktales from old local people....
I'm afraid I don't have a map reference for the 'witch croft', but have it listed in a work on field-names of the area. You'll be able to find out exactly where it is by visiting your local Central Library and asking to see either the Tithe Maps of Stansted, or any local field-name maps in the library. There is the possibility that the word 'witch' relates to the wych-elm tree - but that's something you'll need to work out thru cross-referencing early spellings and any modern place-name studies of the region (the original Place-Names of Essex by Mr Reaney is more than 70yrs old and a more detailed study of the region would be needed to get further info on this). I think that the Witch Stone you mention at the castle probably has something to do with it though. I'd like to know a bit more about this Witch Stone by the way - any chance you can get more info and add it to the MegPortal website? Twouldst be greatly appreciated.
The 'tunnel' legend you mention isn't perhaps as tenuous as you'd think. Many tunnel legends tend to be symbolic and in some cases can be the last vestiges of an alignment. Just having a quick scan at the line of the tunnel which you describe between Monks Farm and the castle is getting pretty close to a summer/winter solstice line. But again - you'd need to check this out more accurately.
One final thing: is there a visible valley (or geographical dip) from Monks Farm, or the castle, up to the township of Quendon? Any tunnel or other legends relating these sites with each other? I'm doing some research into 'queen' place-names and mythic female characters, though there doesn't seem to be as much a prevelance of these in southern England as 'up north' - but I'm into anything I can find on such matters.
Cheers - Paul
[/quote]
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martinwatt
Joined:
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Messages: 2
from Essex
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| Posted 19-08-2008 at 14:59
Quote:
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On 2008-08-17 16:10, Chalkblue wrote:
Hi Paul
Thanks for your interest and suggestions!
The farm was 'Monks Farm' and the map reference of the farmhouse is TL533234. My mother died last year and our conversation about the stone took place a number of years ago. Which is why I can't remember the name of the 'queen'. I presume the Monks were associated with Thremhall Priory to the south of the airport.
Do you have a map ref for the witches croft? There is a chunk of puddingstone, described as a a witches' stone, in the reconstructed castle at Stansted.
Curiously, mother also told of rumours of a 'secret tunnel' between the farmhouse and the castle at Stansted Mountfitchet. However I tend to disregard this story because the M11 passes through a deep cutting between the points concerned. I would expect excavation on this scale to have cut through any tunnel.
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I don't understand this horrible message board system, but just hoping this gets through.
The Monks Farm' reference is fascinating. I live in Blackmore not that far from Stanstead. About a mile from here is a farm called "Monks and Barrows farm". There are ancient remains all round that area including a burial mound in a riding school close by. All I could find out was in an old newspaper cutting which said that Roman artefacts had been found close to the area that I suspect was a pre Roman site. There are also ditches and earthworks close by. There are also a couple of Ancient trackways cutting through the area that go Stanstead way. I wonder if there might be a connection to this place in Stanstead?
Anyone know anything or want to take a look?
I rarely get on this board, so any replies please to my normal email.
Martin Watt
info@aromamedical.com
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karloff
Joined:
20-10-2006
Messages: 605
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| Posted 19-08-2008 at 15:40
Quote:
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On 2008-08-19 14:59, martinwatt wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-08-17 16:10, Chalkblue wrote:
Hi Paul
Thanks for your interest and suggestions!
The farm was 'Monks Farm' and the map reference of the farmhouse is TL533234. My mother died last year and our conversation about the stone took place a number of years ago. Which is why I can't remember the name of the 'queen'. I presume the Monks were associated with Thremhall Priory to the south of the airport.
Do you have a map ref for the witches croft? There is a chunk of puddingstone, described as a a witches' stone, in the reconstructed castle at Stansted.
Curiously, mother also told of rumours of a 'secret tunnel' between the farmhouse and the castle at Stansted Mountfitchet. However I tend to disregard this story because the M11 passes through a deep cutting between the points concerned. I would expect excavation on this scale to have cut through any tunnel.
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I don't understand this horrible message board system, but just hoping this gets through.
The Monks Farm' reference is fascinating. I live in Blackmore not that far from Stanstead. About a mile from here is a farm called "Monks and Barrows farm". There are ancient remains all round that area including a burial mound in a riding school close by. All I could find out was in an old newspaper cutting which said that Roman artefacts had been found close to the area that I suspect was a pre Roman site. There are also ditches and earthworks close by. There are also a couple of Ancient trackways cutting through the area that go Stanstead way. I wonder if there might be a connection to this place in Stanstead?
Anyone know anything or want to take a look?
I rarely get on this board, so any replies please to my normal email.
Martin Watt
info@aromamedical.com
[/quote]
Hi Chaps
For info on Essex archaeology have alook at this website:
http://unlockingessex.essexcc.gov.uk/custom_pages/home_page.asp?
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baz
Joined:
16-06-2001
Messages: 67
from West Midlands, UK
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| Posted 19-08-2008 at 22:35
Quote:
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On 2008-08-16 10:18, Chalkblue wrote:
.....Could this have been the Stansted Airport Stone, now relocated to the crossroads at Takeley?
Does anybody know whether there is a record of the exact original location of this stone?
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The stone now at Takeley can't be the one you are referring to as the Takeley stone was buried in prehistory and only found by archaeological excavation.
More info and its original location can be found here:
http://tlhs.org.uk/our_artifacts.htm
Baz
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Chalkblue
Joined:
16-08-2008
Messages: 6
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| Posted 19-08-2008 at 23:12
Quote:
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On 2008-08-19 22:35, baz wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-08-16 10:18, Chalkblue wrote:
.....Could this have been the Stansted Airport Stone, now relocated to the crossroads at Takeley?
Does anybody know whether there is a record of the exact original location of this stone?
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The stone now at Takeley can't be the one you are referring to as the Takeley stone was buried in prehistory and only found by archaeological excavation.
More info and its original location can be found here:
http://tlhs.org.uk/our_artifacts.htm
Baz
[/quote]
Thanks Baz for this very relevant link.
It certainly seems to put paid to my theory! The report mentions a number of sites but, if I have read it right, the Takeley stone was found on the 'mid stay car park' area. I think this is on the east side of the airport - which would put it on the opposite side from Monks Farm.
My mother would have been about 6 years of age when she left Stansted. Even if (a big 'if') the stone were above ground she would have been unlikely to have ventured that far from the farm house.
So that writes off the Takeley stone as being the queen's stone. Perhaps there was something else nearer to Monks Farm and the hamlet of Burton End. If it is under the airport we will never know. Still its nice to wonder.....
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h_fenton
Joined:
22-10-2005
Messages: 105
from OXFORDSHIRE, UK
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| Posted 25-08-2008 at 10:52
here is another photo of the Stansted Airport Stone during excavation - from the Wessex Archaeology photosteam on Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wessexarchaeology/2655523674/
[ This message was edited by: h_fenton on 2008-08-25 10:55 ]
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Chalkblue
Joined:
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Messages: 6
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| Posted 25-08-2008 at 11:30
Many thanks for this picture. It's the best I have seen and it makes it obvious how far below ground the stone was. I have a copy of the 1921 edition of the 1/2500 OS map of the area. There is nothing I can identify as a stone. I think anything as significant as the Takeley stone would have been marked, if it was at all apparent at surface level.
Chalkblue
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Chalkblue
Joined:
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Messages: 6
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|  Posted 29-05-2013 at 09:45
In my earlier post I stated that the M11 ran through a deep cutting which would have bisected the likely line of a possible passage between Monks Farm and Stansted Mountfichet castle. My point was that the construction of the cutting would most likely have revealed the rumoured passage. In making this statement I was speaking from memory and I now fear I was mistaken. The M 11 does NOT pass through a cutting at this point. It seems to run very much at the pre-existing ground level. So the M11 cannot be cited as evidence against the "passage" my mother spoke about.
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