Featured Title:
Redhead, the new thriller by Ian Cook 'a compulsive read' |
 |
| The Henge Monuments of the British Isles: Myth and Archaeology |
 |
| Login |
|
Don't have an account yet? You can create one. As a registered user you have some advantages like your own home page, fewer ads, and your contributions link to your page. |
| Who's Online |
There are currently, 116 guests and 0 members online.
You are a guest. To join in, please register for free by clicking here |
| |
Moderated by : davidmorgan , TimPrevett , Andy B , Klingon , MickM , bat400 , sem , Runemage , TheCaptain
The Megalithic Portal and Megalith Map : Index >>
Sacred Sites and Megalithic Mysteries >> macro mental movements
|
 |
| Page 1 of 3 ( 1 | 2 | 3 ) |
| Author |
macro mental movements |
chimera
Joined:
09-09-2006
Messages: 1508
from Australia
 OFF-Line
|  Posted 07-05-2008 at 11:15
Looking at long-term history of the world as a unit, does a picture emerge of some weird agenda ? Have humans followed a systemic compulsion to act against the human interest?
 Profile
 Reply
|
Venutius
Joined:
17-01-2007
Messages: 329
OFF-Line
| Posted 07-05-2008 at 11:37
Yes, that is my overall conclusion.
Profile
Reply
|
karloff
Joined:
20-10-2006
Messages: 604
OFF-Line
| Posted 07-05-2008 at 12:38
Quote:
|
On 2008-05-07 11:15, chimera wrote:
Looking at long-term history of the world as a unit, does a picture emerge of some weird agenda ? Have humans followed a systemic compulsion to act against the human interest?
|
|
Hi
Good question, how about though:
Surely the prehistory/history of the human race is actually composed of millions of tiny events carried out by millions of people. There are large scale historical events which are remembered and taught but most human activity goes without record. Think of the millions of small, acts of kindness that occur all the time across the globe on a daily basis. It may appear from history that warfare, genocide etc are the norm but equally people not killing each other is actually what happens most of the time. For every Taliban fighter or US Marine there are thousands of social workers, librarians, doctors, nurses.
So I think it may appear to have a violent history but that could be because of the way we look at it, perceive it and record it rather than a day to day reality.
Profile
Reply
|
brigantia
Joined:
13-01-2002
Messages: 804
from Yorkshire & Argyll
OFF-Line
| Posted 07-05-2008 at 13:05
Quote:
|
On 2008-05-07 11:15, chimera wrote:
Looking at long-term history of the world as a unit, does a picture emerge of some weird agenda ? Have humans followed a systemic compulsion to act against the human interest?
|
|
Humans have seperated themselves from Nature in quite intrinsic ways. That's the primary error. The development and emergence of dualistic religious systems (xtianity) and subsequent conflation of ego are the obvious offsprings and, once they're rife, trouble truly opens Pandora's Box of trinkets for trickery! The seeming 'systemic compulsion', thereafter (illusory though it is), is inevitable...
Innit?
Profile
 Email
Reply
|
Venutius
Joined:
17-01-2007
Messages: 329
OFF-Line
| Posted 07-05-2008 at 13:33
I'm glad you said it Paulus, whenever I say it, it would appear to be because I'm suffering from dualistic illusions.
Profile
Reply
|
chimera
Joined:
09-09-2006
Messages: 1508
from Australia
OFF-Line
| Posted 08-05-2008 at 09:31
There seems to be dualism between humans (nurses doctors librarians) and systems. At times 1 man can be the system if he's quick on his feet (or tongue) such as Lenin, Adolf and Charles I. The latter "turned a protest into a revolt and revolt into rebellion". Democracy can partially treat the brain-disease , Political Power , which is unhealthy for humans and other useful life-forms. Public utilities are ok except when imperial dominance corrupts absolutely.
Profile
Reply
|
Venutius
Joined:
17-01-2007
Messages: 329
OFF-Line
| Posted 08-05-2008 at 10:00
Our self destructive habits impact at all levels of society, from the individual, to the smallest groups to the major corporations and beyond.
The self harm is a result of our collective madness, which whilst I think there is a lot more to it, for most of was the result of the loss of our way of life following invasion and social change.
As nations, democracy or otherwise, and as businesses, public or privately owened, we spread our madness by making sure indiginous peoples are relieved of their land, leaving a previously self sufficient society dependent on their abuser in order to exist. Therein lies the root of the low self worth which travels through time along our lineage, reinforced by being forced to adopt insane ways of living designed (because they were designed by loonies) to further deepen our dillusion of sanity while confirming our worthlessness.
Profile
Reply
|
chimera
Joined:
09-09-2006
Messages: 1508
from Australia
OFF-Line
| Posted 08-05-2008 at 10:20
"result of the loss of our way of life following invasion and social change."
Is that invasion "of the British, for the British or by the British"? Are humans suited to having great political power or does it curdle the brain?
Profile
Reply
|
Venutius
Joined:
17-01-2007
Messages: 329
OFF-Line
| Posted 08-05-2008 at 10:31
It's not whether humans are suited, but whether we can expect a person brainwashed to the point of insanity to do anything else but deepen their insanity if given power. IMO
Profile
Reply
|
Laughing_Ball
Joined:
13-08-2006
Messages: 888
from North West
OFF-Line
| Posted 08-05-2008 at 10:34
Quote:
|
On 2008-05-08 10:00, Venutius wrote:
Our self destructive habits impact at all levels of society, from the individual, to the smallest groups to the major corporations and beyond.
The self harm is a result of our collective madness, which whilst I think there is a lot more to it, for most of was the result of the loss of our way of life following invasion and social change.
As nations, democracy or otherwise, and as businesses, public or privately owened, we spread our madness by making sure indiginous peoples are relieved of their land, leaving a previously self sufficient society dependent on their abuser in order to exist. Therein lies the root of the low self worth which travels through time along our lineage, reinforced by being forced to adopt insane ways of living designed (because they were designed by loonies) to further deepen our dillusion of sanity while confirming our worthlessness.
|
|
Again its part of not looking at the bigger picture, cutting your nose and not realising its part of your own face mentality.
If we are driven by selfish genes as some people say then maybe this is what we should expect, the rise of the self, competition, separation and expansion.
But I wonder if perhaps there is some balance to be had, maybe both the 'old' ways and the current ways are unstunstainable and its a matter of finding a balance between the two (in a few thousand more years perhaps?).
Profile
Reply
|
MuddyMick
Joined:
12-05-2006
Messages: 1237
OFF-Line
| Posted 08-05-2008 at 11:32
Quote:
|
On 2008-05-07 13:05, brigantia wrote:
[quote]
On 2008-05-07 11:15, chimera wrote:
Looking at long-term history of the world as a unit, does a picture emerge of some weird agenda ? Have humans followed a systemic compulsion to act against the human interest?
|
|
Humans have seperated themselves from Nature in quite intrinsic ways. That's the primary error. The development and emergence of dualistic religious systems (xtianity) and subsequent conflation of ego are the obvious offsprings and, once they're rife, trouble truly opens Pandora's Box of trinkets for trickery! The seeming 'systemic compulsion', thereafter (illusory though it is), is inevitable...
Innit?
[/quote]
Hi Brig,
I would hope when you post of dualistic (divorced) religious systems and you cite Christianity as one others will realise that (or I would hope that) you are using the example of a majority (of christians) otherwise this would imply the christian system as oppossed to its misapplication is fundamentally flawed!
One could say the same for Hindu, Sikh, Jain and Buddhism using the same logic.
regards
MM
Profile
Reply
|
chimera
Joined:
09-09-2006
Messages: 1508
from Australia
OFF-Line
| Posted 08-05-2008 at 21:03
MM,
Then you imply that Christianity (Buddhist Jain )(Sikh?) is separate from political power? Agreed, as Christ was often sane but the Pharisees and Romans were a bit off. At that time Celts with neck-torcs knew they would be trans-migrated at death so battle casualties meant only a better life. Did that cause their attacks on Rome and Delphi?
Profile
Reply
|
KenWilliams
Joined:
12-04-2005
Messages: 188
from Dublin
OFF-Line
| Posted 09-05-2008 at 22:17
Gee whiz guys, why such pessimism in folks so young? Well, maybe not all young. 
The problem with such pessimism is the fact that it goes against a lot of the actual evidence and experience. How many people do you personally know who have been murdered? Apart from those you read about in newspapers etc. of course. How many people do you personally know that were killed in war? The simple facts are that very few of us could answer yes to either, and thankfully that applies across more parts of the globe than ever before. There is still much horror of course, and we should hope never to tolerate it like in previous generations, centuries and millenia.
Wasn't always so of course. Go back a few decades and the story would be a little different, go back a few hundred years and things were much hairier. Go back thousands say, from studies of small bands and tribes today, a very high percentage of families experience murder and deaths in war. Population levels and proximity were much lower then, if such rates applied now then we would see slaughter of a scale never experienced by anyone born after WWII.
How many war protests, peace protests, famine relief organisations etc. were there just 100 years ago? Go back a few decades and the Vietnam war rumbled on for years before large numbers took to the streets. Before the invasion of Iraq even began, millions marched in the streets to protest at a war in which conflict had not even started.
How many enviornmentalists were there 100 years ago? Western naturalists, those most interested in nature, were the people most likely to kill for sport and specimens. Now, we have global enviornmental movements and people risking their lives to prevent slaughter of animals and destruction of habitat. Even the naturalists of 100 years ago would have thought the very idea absurd.
The problem is not why are we such nasty creatures, we already know that. The conundrum is why are we growing such a social and enviornmental concience like never before? Why has the empathy previously applied only to kin and clan by default expanded to tribe, state, all of humanity and in more recent times, all living species?? We should be more optimistic now than ever.
Sure, we certainly are making a disastrous mess of the enviornment, social equality and progress on eliminating conflict. But at least now it seems there are people who actually care and want to act on these issues, because turn the clock back and our ancestors probably would not have even contemplated that these things were genuine problems we should make every effort to eliminate. The big question is, has the change come in time to prevent catastrophe.
[ This message was edited by: KenWilliams on 2008-05-09 22:37 ]
Profile
Reply
|
chimera
Joined:
09-09-2006
Messages: 1508
from Australia
OFF-Line
| Posted 09-05-2008 at 22:58
With global warming the clock is ticking and the goose will be cooked in 50 years. Optimism is the only possible therapy.
Profile
Reply
|
Venutius
Joined:
17-01-2007
Messages: 329
OFF-Line
| Posted 09-05-2008 at 23:18
Who's pessimistic?
I don't think anyone here is.
In order to fix the problem, its best to understand it at source and personally I think we are getting there.
But I think your optimism is currently misplaced. Simply because our experts are just as brainwashed as we are.
We may be currently "mobilsing" our forces against the spectre of global warming and what is our aim? Cut a gas that occurs naturally in huge quantities that we actually cannot measure our output. Our ambition to do this as quickly as possible will see us tear yet more resources out of the ground whilst all the time the fundamental issues still remain; Humanity is at its least efficient level of production and is allowing the population to run wild.
That isn't going to change anytime soon.
How about we ban hd-tv? Unthinkable I'd have thought. But its introduction means every house on the planet will swap out their tv's over the next 10 years. Will the replacement units be designed to last, will the unit cost reflect the environmental cost? Will the TV's be designed to be recycleable without melting them down first? I don't think so.
Personally, I reckon things will have to get a whole lot worse before enough of us are able to see the truth of our existence in order to break our collective conditioning.
But miracles do happen you know, there's a whole bunch of stuff that could happen to turn it around. Personally I'm going to do my bit and put my trust in god.
Profile
Reply
|
mikecroley
Joined:
27-10-2006
Messages: 1655
OFF-Line
| Posted 11-05-2008 at 10:06
Quote:
|
On 2008-05-09 23:18, Venutius wrote:
In order to fix the problem, its best to understand it at source and personally I think we are getting there.
|
|
Whilst Lennon sat there watching the wheels go round and round, he stated there were NO problems, only solutions.
We 'got there' a long time ago on here George but, (as usual) the Truth was pushed to the back in favour of inflated ego trips from north of the border.
Thought is the creative force responsible for every thing George, think about it. See you at the finishing line I hope.
mike
Profile
Reply
|
Venutius
Joined:
17-01-2007
Messages: 329
OFF-Line
| Posted 11-05-2008 at 11:43
Following that to its conclusion Mike, then there's little point posting here is there? There are no problems and all is perfect, we just need to concieve a perfect universe and it will exist.
Yet we are all posting here, a lot of us sit around squabbling about the different words we choose to use to explain exactly the same thing whilst others cannot resist choosing to misinterpret the words of others or standing in judgement.
You are right, we have the answers, but clearly we have yet to apply them. For most there are many good excuses but for you and I there are none.
Profile
Reply
|
cropredy
Joined:
01-01-2006
Messages: 5531
from Oxon
OFF-Line
| Posted 11-05-2008 at 12:49
Venutius,
This "trust to god " bit , I don't understand, it seems like a cop out to me?
Relying on some superior being to sort out things, but to sort them out to your perception of how they should be sorted.
How do you KNOW if this god doesn't prefer watching tank battles etc?
Your god is surely just an ideal condensation of your ideals of perfection?
So such as bush talking about god may be genuine, just that his god prefers to sort out things by force and death.
I consider that change is a continuum, with everything been subject to a cyclitic ebb and flow of alteration.
The main problem at the moment is too much power been given to so few , and they then impose their ideals onto as vast an area of the globe as possible, they all consider their god and ideals as best, and will kill as many as it takes to impose that ideal, we have in effect handed over responsibility to these few.
Bush will think he is doing his gods work, as he slaughters millions.
He will be trusting to god, his perception of god.
Kevin
Profile
Reply
|
Venutius
Joined:
17-01-2007
Messages: 329
OFF-Line
| Posted 11-05-2008 at 16:08
"Bush will think he is doing his gods work, as he slaughters millions.
He will be trusting to god, his perception of god. "
And of course all have Bushes actions in the past have been the work of god, as have your and mines. On one level. totally different gods, on another, the important one, these have been the actions of the same god.
Because all that exists is god, all that is is perfect. On the surface you would think that this is just an excuse to do nothing, to let it all happen around you while you selfishly develop your inner self. But in reality I and all posting on this forum have not got there yet, otherwise that's exactly what we would to.
So we involve ourselves in the illusory struggle that is life, in many respects we choose sadness over happiness like the rest of the human race. Partically because we cannot afford to do otherwise but in reality, because although we may have a higher degree of awareness, we are still the same addicts that we once were, only to a lesser extent.
Now I'm not suggesting you stop what you do, but I do suggest that as your awareness evolves you will interact less with the external and concentrate more on the internal.
Profile
Reply
|
mikecroley
Joined:
27-10-2006
Messages: 1655
OFF-Line
| Posted 11-05-2008 at 22:07
Quote:
|
On 2008-05-11 11:43, Venutius wrote:
Following that to its conclusion Mike, then there's little point posting here is there? There are no problems and all is perfect, we just need to concieve a perfect universe and it will exist.
[That's the trouble George, conceptions are dependent upon the quality of one's own perceptions.]
Yet we are all posting here, a lot of us sit around squabbling about the different words we choose to use to explain exactly the same thing whilst others cannot resist choosing to misinterpret the words of others or standing in judgement.
[If it ain't clear and simple, it ain't worth a toss.]
You are right, we have the answers, but clearly we have yet to apply them. For most there are many good excuses but for you and I there are none.
|
|
Excuses are for cowards George.
mike
Profile
Reply
| |
| Go to Page: 1 | 2 | 3 |
|
|
|
|
|
IMPORTANT NOTES: This site uses COOKIES. Please do not use this web site if you do not agree to our Terms and Conditions of use.
If you plan to visit ancient sites in person, please make sure you follow our Charter.
Articles, photographs and comments are the property of their respective authors or contributors, please contact them for permission to reproduce. Site design ©1997-2012 Andy Burnham.
|
Main News