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The Megalithic Portal and Megalith Map : Index >>
General Forum >> Mayans/Aztecs
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Mayans/Aztecs |
rbatham
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|  Posted 22-10-2006 at 04:45
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On 2006-10-20 10:24, Aluta wrote:
I didn't post this because I can't remember it exactly anymore, but it seems to me that it was base 20 with a twist. Sadly, I don't remember the twist, but I recall at the time thinking, how does that make it easier or work better than a straight base 20 system? I do remember that the numerals, for that reason, past a certain point did not mean what they would have meant in a straight base 20 system. Sorry I can't remember more.
When my son was considering Mayan studies as a major, he wanted to go to Tulane University, where they have a number of professors on staff who are experts on various aspects of Mayan culture, including the living Maya in different regions, Mayan languages, which are taught there, and the archaeology of the region--a pretty amazing group. Cultural Anthropology at Tulane
Archaeology at Tulane
Linguistic Anthropology at Tulane
Tulane's Middle American Research Institute
I remember looking at their website at the time and thinking I wanted to go there. Fortunately, he decided against it--in his first month of school Katrina hit there and most of the students had to go elsewhere for the rest of the year. His major now is classics--Greek and Roman studies with a minor in East Asian studies. Not that you asked.
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thanks Aluta. I found the 'twist' Seems they started with 20 symbols and 20 became 10 in the next column, but then instead of 20x20= 400 they went 20 x18= 360 for the next then 20's again. Bit too complex for me, I think I'll try Roman history instead.
But they had a worse counting system The founding of the city was
DXXXLVI B.C.
bugger it I'll stick to 1066 on. At least I know where I am. Roy
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cropredy
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| Posted 22-10-2006 at 18:23
If you viewed the fibonacci sequence just cast in stone, would you divide any number by the one either side of it?
That gives you 1.618, and .618.
Would that have mean't much to you if you hadn't been informed about its consequence?
I feel they had a similer sequence that predicted events, they then could advise when to plant certain crops etc, etc.
If an alignment came along that didn't fit into this sequence, it would have thrown them into chaous.
If the same alignment ( eclipse ) caused a lasting alteration to the detectable forces that they worshipped, they would have viewed this as their gods desserting them, their whole society may have crumbled because everything they believed in went haywire.
It wouldn't take long for starvation and illness to wipe them out.
If something similer happened now, how long before the law of the jungle took over, my guess is a couple of weeks.
Kevin
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rbatham
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| Posted 23-10-2006 at 03:15
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On 2006-10-22 18:23, cropredy wrote:
If the same alignment ( eclipse ) caused a lasting alteration to the detectable forces that they worshipped, they would have viewed this as their gods desserting them, their whole society may have crumbled because everything they believed in went haywire.
It wouldn't take long for starvation and illness to wipe them out.
If something similer happened now, how long before the law of the jungle took over, my guess is a couple of weeks.
Kevin
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The last doco I saw on this ,The mayan occupation of Mexico was ended by prolonged drought. without water they walked out and in more favourable times the Aztecs moved in.
With the water crisis here in Oz at the present farmers are either commiting suicide or just walking off their farms to seek work elsewhere. Big problem. Roy
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cropredy
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| Posted 25-10-2006 at 20:48
Rbatham,
Sort of the same thing perhaps that the Mayans did?
With them though I consider that they thought if they offered their gods human sacrifice that their gods would return and bring back the water?
If the Aussies offered their four x to the gods?, perhaps the rains would return?
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rbatham
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| Posted 26-10-2006 at 02:44
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On 2006-10-25 20:48, cropredy wrote:
Rbatham,
Sort of the same thing perhaps that the Mayans did?
With them though I consider that they thought if they offered their gods human sacrifice that their gods would return and bring back the water?
If the Aussies offered their four x to the gods?, perhaps the rains would return?
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Kevin, I think this isn't the place to discuss today's problems, but Australia has plenty of water, it's in the wrong place. when you have a government that cries 'poor', can't afford to build pipelines, yet can spend millions on G,W. Bush's war, Failing to give farmers adequate support is tantamount to 'Human sacrifice'. Nothings changed except different God (almighty$). Roy
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mithra
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| Posted 26-10-2006 at 19:06
Might be of some interest that the Mayans and the Aztec empires were in different areas of 'Mesoamerica' and over 400years apart.
The Mayan Empire covered the Yucatan Peninsula whereas the Aztec Empire was primarily Mexico.
Dates of the Mesoamerican civilizations:
Olmecs...c 1500 - 400BC.
Zapolecs....c AD300 - 600
Maya.....c AD300 - 900
Toltecs....c AD900 - 1180
Aztecs.....c AD1325 - 1521
Looking into the various numbers mentioned in the postings, I thought that some might come from their calendar system.(no - nothing todo with Fib. no's! So lets NOT go back to that worn subject again eh?)
Both the Maya and the Aztecs had 2 calendars. The 'Solar calendar' & the 'Sacred calendar'.
The Solar calendar comprised of 18 months each of 20 days, to which were added 5 'unlucky' days (to make a total of 365).
For the Aztecs years were defined by no.s 1 to 13 combined with 4 of the 20 signs, so that no date would repeat itself until 52 (13x4) years had elapsed.
Running parallel to the solar year and dovetailed into it was the 'sacred calendar'.
The OLMECS first used this 260 day calendar, the Mayans took this and refined it.
The 260 days were divided into 20 'weeks' of 13 days. Each of these weeks was presided over by a particular deity/deities and each day had its own god/goddess.
This calendar was used in divination and to determine a person's destiny.
For both the Maya & the Aztecs the intermeshing of the two calendars produced a 'calendar round' of 52 years.......yes back to that old conker!!
At the end of every 52 year period time and the world were SYMBOLICALLY reborn in the 'new fire ceremony'.....Ay nowt REALLY happend!!
The number 13 crops up in this little myth...
'The Sun and The Moon are lovers who change to human form, sun-male, moon-female. They elope together in a canoe but the rain god hurls a thunderbolt at them. The Sun changes into a turtle and survives but although the moon turns into a crab she dies. Aided by Dragonflies the sun collects her remains in 13 hollow logs. 13 days later 12 of the logs are opened setting free venomous snakes and insects. In the 13th log is the moon.'
Wonder what all that means? Any ideas? Mithra.
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cropredy
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| Posted 26-10-2006 at 20:03
Fibonacci,
0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144
Its the sequence, not the numbers.
divide either number by the one at its side and get 1.618, .618.
I was going to show you the results at arbor low.
Spirals radiating in/out, from two points, following the golden ratio spirals.
the round barrow built into the henge embankment is sited on rectangles of 55x34 inch, in each rectangle as other lines divide them , there are spirals, golden ratio spirals.
creation occurs at these points, and deceased life is absorbed into the planet, if you know how to insulate these spots, you will ensure that the in-going spent life force, re-emitts at the self same spot.
Handy that, if you desire to return to your tribe, and especially if they leave you your most prized possesions for you to re-claim on your arrival?
I bet there will be some pissed off megalithic people who return and find somebody has nicked all their goods, especially the Egyptians, they will be non too pleased, especially has their bodies have been taken, in a sequence, all that has been will be again.
Kevin
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mithra
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| Posted 26-10-2006 at 20:27
On 2006-10-26 20:03, cropredy wrote:
''Fibonacci,.....''
Cropredy please STOP IT! No more Fib. stuff....you're getting like a broken down old record!
The numbers I mentioned in my posting were: 5,12,13,18,20,52,260,365...Absolutely NO Fib. sequence there!
Can you not be interested in someone elses postings? There is some really good interesting information on this thread....please read it! Mithra.
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rbatham
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| Posted 27-10-2006 at 01:55
[quote]
On 2006-10-26 19:06, mithra wrote:
Might be of some interest that the Mayans and the Aztec empires were in different areas
Hi mithra Yes , I get this from 'Crystalinks' but then other sites/authors state that Mayan occupation of Aztec sites is evident , pyramids of sun and moon,
Cortes is said to have landed in Yucatan first where he found a shipwrecked spaniard who had learnt the Mayan language. along with a native girl he took them to Mexico where they were understood and acted as interpreters. Roy
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mithra
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| Posted 27-10-2006 at 13:28
On 2006-10-27 01:55, rbatham wrote:
''... but then other sites/authors state that Mayan occupation of Aztec sites is evident , pyramids of sun and moon,''
Think you mean the other way round....'Aztec occupation of Mayan sites'? More than likely as the Mayan Empire had folded some 400 years previously.
Presumably the Olmec site at La Venta was subsequently used by others?
There are 'Zapotec' sites at Monte Alban and Mitla yet we hear little of these people.
The Pyramid at Chichen Itza, in the Yucatan, is supposedly Toltec-Maya.....which is a long way from the principal Toltec centre of Tula.
Bat mentioned the city of Teotihuacan, which pre-dates Aztec occupation. I cannot find out who built this, only that it was known as the 'city of the gods' and flourished from the beginning of the christian era until its destruction in AD650 and the Aztecs, later, used it as a sacred place. This is where the Aztec '5th sun' (5th world era) was created.
Sorry Roy forgot to note which temple you mentioned where the number 13 figured in it's construction. The Mayan myth mentioned might have significance here - temple dedicated to the Moon perhaps?
I like eclipse ideas, do you know if any temples were built by the Mayans or Aztecs close to eclipse dates? Mithra.
[ This message was edited by: mithra on 2006-10-27 17:09 ]
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cropredy
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| Posted 27-10-2006 at 22:28
This thread has got me reading up about the Maya.
Just read about lord pacal who is said to have died in ad 683, in the pyramid where he was found, around the walls are nine stuccoed figures.
There are nine gods in ancient Egypt, from the one god Ra, or Re.
This is in palenque, the nine lords of the night of maya theology?
Kevin
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cropredy
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| Posted 27-10-2006 at 22:48
sorry, will try again
Kevin
[ This message was edited by: cropredy on 2006-10-27 22:56 ]
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rbatham
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| Posted 28-10-2006 at 02:57
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On 2006-10-27 13:28, mithra wrote:
Think you mean the other way round....'Aztec occupation of Mayan sites'? More than likely as the Mayan Empire had folded some 400 years previously.
Presumably the Olmec site at La Venta was subsequently used by others?
The Pyramid at Chichen Itza, in the Yucatan, is supposedly Toltec-Maya.....which is a long way from the principal Toltec centre of Tula.
Sorry Roy forgot to note which temple you mentioned where the number 13 figured in it's construction. The Mayan myth mentioned might have significance here - temple dedicated to the Moon perhaps?
I like eclipse ideas, do you know if any temples were built by the Mayans or Aztecs close to eclipse dates? Mithra.
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Sory mithra. sometimes I don't express myself properly. What I meant was that evidence of Mayan occupation is found at the pyramids attributed to the later Aztecs. I didn't mention any temple where 13 was found. I referred to a web site that I googled (can't remember which). where the calendar dates were written as 13.13.13.1 or other combinations of 13. 4 figures were used to give a date. Roy
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mithra
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| Posted 28-10-2006 at 12:40
Yes, sorry Roy.....that's what happens when I read through the postings without taking adequate notes on what's been said! Always difficult to catch-up properly after a break. I'll endeavour to do better! Mithra
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mithra
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| Posted 28-10-2006 at 16:23
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On 2006-10-27 22:28, cropredy wrote:
This thread has got me reading up about the Maya.
Just read about lord pacal who is said to have died in ad 683, in the pyramid where he was found, around the walls are nine stuccoed figures.
There are nine gods in ancient Egypt, from the one god Ra, or Re.
This is in palenque, the nine lords of the night of maya theology?
Kevin
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Interesting point Kevin. I shall have to see what I can find out. I would presume that these nine stuccoed figures were gods? I wonder if they represented the same meanings as the nine Egyptian gods?
I know that the Mayan sun god was called Ahau Kin and a maize god was called Ah Mun. But as they had at least 166 deities.....!
Have you got any more info on who these 9 figures were? Mithra.
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cropredy
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| Posted 28-10-2006 at 19:12
perhaps, if it works?
http://www.mesoweb.com/articles/tulan/tulan/.pdf
kevin
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rbatham
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| Posted 04-11-2006 at 12:29
I found this while looking for something else
http://survive2012.com/why_2012_maya.php
gives a good explanation of the Mayan calendar and the symbols used. lots of other links there too. Roy
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cropredy
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| Posted 04-11-2006 at 20:47
Rbatham,
Cheers , bonfire night here, forget the date, that doesn't matter?
I really liked the bit "are dragons real."
the dragon or serpant is said to have controlled the tides and the seas etc, it does.
The dragon is aether, it is affected by alignments, if a shortage of aether inflows , then starvation and plague will hit the planet, if an upsurge occurs then gravity will rock the place, and the ice will melt, fast, the oceans will rise and only those quick enough or forwarned enough will survive.
We are in denial, or litterally in the nile.
There must be some form of over-ride that blocks off reality, all the evidence is as clear as the nose on your face, but they still squeel idiot.
A global catastrophe is imminent, and the alignment of certain celestial bodies will bring it about, what go's around comes around, maybe a little faster each time?
The Mayan culture couldn't know the full cycle of their counter, therefore they didn't forsee intermediate happenings, this probably coincides with our dark ages?
Whats the moon like down there?
Its really big and low here, this is leading to high pressure and very cold nights, the air is thick with smoke, and my dogs are terrified of the loud bangs, fear of the unknown is a strange thing, it causes amnesia, expect the unexpected.
Kevin
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cropredy
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| Posted 05-11-2006 at 00:28
http://www.calleman.com/
Kevin
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Aluta
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| Posted 05-11-2006 at 01:27
Hey, that stone calendar at the top of the linked page--where is that from? I've seen it refered to as an Aztec calendar and as a Mayan calendar in different places. I'm especially interested because I bought a trinket for half a dollar at a nearby church rummage a year or two ago, and it turned out to be a fine detailed rendering of that calendar done by Mexican artisans in solid silver with rose gold detail. You can see the guys at the bottom with the 'beards' and everything. Now whenever I see that calendar I notice it. It turns up a lot of places.
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