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The Megalithic Portal and Megalith Map : Index >>
Stones Forum >> Arbor Low (again)
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Arbor Low (again) |
mithra
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|  Posted 30-07-2006 at 21:23
That's sad, we must've missed one another by minutes! You must be a quick dowser then? Or doesn't it take that long to dowse all those lines?
(I honestly thought you'd be there for hours.)
Did you notice those little stone circles that someone had placed in the middle? What do you think that was about? And the 'causeway' - what did you make of it? Mithra
Forgot to mention the arrow and axe heads - interesting, where abouts they were found?
[ This message was edited by: mithra on 2006-07-30 21:40 ]
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cropredy
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| Posted 30-07-2006 at 22:01
Mithra, Are you having me on?
I drove 120 miles to meet up, you demanded that I PM you before I left, I did that and said I would be there by 11.00 am, which I was.And stayed for 2.5 hours?
As for dowsing the circle, it takes me minutes.
I had some colourfull discussions with mr david hey about what I considered about arbor low, he was somewhat dismissive, but I expect that.
I did end up as usual giving dowsing lessons to all sorts of people, lots of very friendly types, the stones seem to attract them?
One thing did interest me about arbor low, was the differing types of limestone used for the layed down stones, again I had ideas about this which I was looked at with a puzzled look?
I consider that different types of material will have a different ability chirality wise to another, also the way the stones are cut reminded me of Avebury, with definate human and animal type figures percievable, I consider these will have been representative of the alignment they were on, and match what the people then percieved at the alignment.
The differing types of barrows around the henge were on different alignments , and built to use different detectable occurances, as usual, I found a long barrow utilising the spirals at the sides of one particuler alignment, whereas the round barrows were over a series of spirals detectable created by rectangles formed by the crossing of the east/west and north/south alignments.
Mr hey looked somewhat perplexed and amused at my wafflings.
I consider that either due to an alteration in the signals from certain alignments, or simply from different peoples only been able to detect certain alignments, that the switch from one type of barrow to another was wholey to do with these signals, but what do I know?, I,m only the joke dowser?
The layout of the circle of stones is slightly egg shape as they manipulated two discernable sets of polygons, they will have origonally built the henge and its ditch and embankments, the stones will have followed later to boost the output, the barrows of various times were not for specifically burying peoples bodies in, but a perception of the life force and where it travels into and re-emits from the earth at precise detectable spots, but what do I know?
Kevin
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mithra
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| Posted 30-07-2006 at 22:43
[quote]
On 2006-07-30 22:01, cropredy wrote:
'As for dowsing the circle, it takes me minutes.
I had some colourfull discussions with mr david hey about what I considered about arbor low, he was somewhat dismissive, but I expect that.'
Look I'm VERY sorry I missed you, too much time spent in Hartington (met someone I hadn't seen for ages) but you also said on previous posting that you needed time to recon the area etc.( and as you were going to be at least 2 hours later than previously arranged because of looking at crop circle.)I did NOT realize that it would only take you mins. to dowse the entire area and still have time to chat to everyone!
This is NOT the impression you give about your dowsing and I find it amazing that you can achieve such accurate work in such a short space of time. But there you go - what do I know!
Also you DID not go just to meet me! You announced that you were going anyway and if you couldn't be bothered to wait, as I said, having given the impression that time wasn't THAT important...well!
Who is this David Hey - Professor Hey?
You forgot to answer my questions about the small stone circle in middle of henge, the 'causeway' and where the axe, arrow heads were found?
Did you dowse 'Gib Hill'? And did you notice the remains of the Roman road?
By the way , who did you give your money to at the farm? ( only ask as a blonde lady at farm did say that she had spoken to a dowser - was it you? They left no message.) Mithra
What do you mean 'different types of limestone for layed down stones'? Odd as it looks like the same limestone to me. There's nothing carved on them, just well weathered. Cannot see that they look anything like the stones at Avebury.
Where EXACTLY did you find the 'long barrow'?
[ This message was edited by: mithra on 2006-07-30 23:15 ]
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flatcap
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| Posted 31-07-2006 at 00:37
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On 2006-07-30 22:43, mithra wrote:
[quote]
On 2006-07-30 22:01, cropredy wrote:
'As for dowsing the circle, it takes me minutes.
I had some colourfull discussions with mr david hey about what I considered about arbor low, he was somewhat dismissive, but I expect that.'
Look I'm VERY sorry I missed you, too much time spent in Hartington (met someone I hadn't seen for ages) but you also said on previous posting that you needed time to recon the area etc.( and as you were going to be at least 2 hours later than previously arranged because of looking at crop circle.)I did NOT realize that it would only take you mins. to dowse the entire area and still have time to chat to everyone!
This is NOT the impression you give about your dowsing and I find it amazing that you can achieve such accurate work in such a short space of time. But there you go - what do I know!
Also you DID not go just to meet me! You announced that you were going anyway and if you couldn't be bothered to wait, as I said, having given the impression that time wasn't THAT important...well!
Who is this David Hey - Professor Hey?
You forgot to answer my questions about the small stone circle in middle of henge, the 'causeway' and where the axe, arrow heads were found?
Did you dowse 'Gib Hill'? And did you notice the remains of the Roman road?
By the way , who did you give your money to at the farm? ( only ask as a blonde lady at farm did say that she had spoken to a dowser - was it you? They left no message.) Mithra
What do you mean 'different types of limestone for layed down stones'? Odd as it looks like the same limestone to me. There's nothing carved on them, just well weathered. Cannot see that they look anything like the stones at Avebury.
Where EXACTLY did you find the 'long barrow'?
[ This message was edited by: mithra on 2006-07-30 23:15 ]
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Pete, Thorgrim, if Kev said he was there, he was.
Scared you might have had your world turned upside down more like!
mike
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Salopian
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| Posted 31-07-2006 at 07:29
"Pete, Thorgrim, if Kev said he was there, he was.
Scared you might have had your world turned upside down more like!"
I can assure you Mithra isn't Pete or Thorgrim.
Alternative theories always seem to need to claim that those who challenge them on scientific grounds are part of a frightened conspiracy of people scared of the truth and protective of their own position. It's daft. If there really was something verifiable in all this stuff it would be investigated and embraced with enthusiasm by scientists worldwide. But there isn't, is there, else you'd have presented it.
Covering that omission by claiming science as a whole is inherently against it on principle might be good enough for you but not for anyone else.
"Science is a self-correcting process. To be accepted, new ideas must survive the most rigorous standards of evidence and scrutiny.” (Carl Sagan). Before you accuse people of being frightened to have their world turned upside down, offer them a bit of evidence. Only then will you know if they're deliberately blinkered.
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cropredy
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| Posted 31-07-2006 at 09:52
Mithra,
The chap I was talking about the site to, gave me his name as David hey, he conducts tours I believe around the area.
He was a very knowledgeable and charming man, I felt our discussions typified a problem, He has an indepth knowledge of practically every pebble that has been overturned on those hills, he knows of every survey undertaken, the whole subject is obviously his passion, but.
And the but go's to the very root of the whole system, He can't do what I can.
I sense that the very reason I went to Arbor low , was to meet him, I have sowed a seed in his mind, From tiny acorns great oaks grow?
He may throw that seed away as useless, so then it will have fallen on rocky ground, but one acorn usually finds a fertile special spot, but it does need to be a special spot.
Kevin
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mithra
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| Posted 31-07-2006 at 12:03
Cropredy
Why won't you answer the following questions?
1) What did you make of the little circles someone had placed in centre? Did they mark a special spot?
2) Where is the long barrow you mentioned dowsing?
3) Did you dowse Gib Hill? If so (and surely you must've done) what did that show?
4) What did you make of the 'causeway'?
5) Where were the axe and arrow heads found?
I'll add an extra one: how many stiles did you climb over to site and describe one please. Mithra.
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cropredy
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| Posted 31-07-2006 at 14:21
Mithra,
The small pile of stones were about 18 inch around, I was joking with a little girl about the rabbits haveing made it.
No I dont sense that it marked a special spot, the centre of arbor low has two spots, one in the depression , the other one is centred on the small stone at the side of one of the flattened stones near the centre.
There is a round barrow sited in the embankment of arbor low, I had a lengthy discussion with mr hey about this barro and why I considered it was a later addition builtby people who could only detect a certain occurance, namely the rectangles and their smaller more numerous spirals inside each rectangle, I further speculated with him that the change over from one system to another could have been caused by a cyclable alteration in the detectable signals, perhaps due to specific alignments of planets etc, if then the signals diminished, it would be as though there gods had desserted them?
If as well other parts of these signals raised in potential, then they would follow them.
As for me answering your demands for answers, well, hmmm?
I did go to the round barrow off to the south west and stood talking with the elderly lady who owns the axe heds etc, she is going to contact david hey who is currently writing a book on the subject, he can photograph them and she is going to try and identify each one and where her grandfather picked them up from, she can remember each one from which crop he used to grow, and told me how one had come from just there and he used to grow a specific crop there.
David told me how this barrow was two built on top of each other, and how the seated remains of the top one had fallen in on some surveyors as they dug into the base of the first one.
I also had a colourfull discussion with him about the position of possible further long barrows, it seemed to amuse him, but I know where and why they are precisely sited, its a kind of magic?
I parked my blue van out on the road, I did inform you of the colour and make of vehicle I drive?
There is a money tin by the house, there were several small children playing in the garden, I believe I went over two stiles, one at the top of the farm yard, and one ner the embankments, when I went to the round barrow the gateway had been limed, there were people there flying kites.
All in all I had a wonderfull day, stopped at Ashbourne for a bite, and looked at all the bikers, then made my way home down the M1.
Overall Arbor Low is as I thought, same as many similer and many so called hill forts, Mr hey is going to try and source the differing types of limestone used, it will be interesting to know how far they were prepared to fetch them from?
Kevin
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mithra
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| Posted 31-07-2006 at 16:03
It looks as if we missed one another actually on site then! Perhaps as I was walking around outside from north to south, as I did when I first arrived, you were going the other way off site towards stile?
Oh well, sorry to have missed you, glad you enjoyed your day. Mithra.
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TwentyTrees
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| Posted 02-08-2006 at 17:04
Cropredy and Mithra. I am sorry to have missed your visits. I would have liked to have met you and shared thoughts about Arbor Low and dowsing. Another time.
The comments about Arbor Low are interesting - the reference to the Long Barrow particularly so since my original entry suggested the presence of such, or a passage grave.
Bull Ring should be visited. It has the same dimensions and shape as Arbor Low, and at least one stone was reported as standing, and like Arbor Low it has a round barrow overlaying its bank on the south-western corner. I'd appreciate any thoughts you may have on why a round barrow should be located there in relation to a henge.
I'd also be interested in any conclusions you may have reached regarding location and alignments - an area of study which continues to interest me given the anomalies described in my recent posts. I'm particularly interested in the relationship between Arbor Low and Bull Ring which are equidistant from Five Wells chambered cairn, which you would have seen in the far off distance - Arbor Low appears to be oriented towards it looking north-west, the summer solstice sun-set possibly.
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cropredy
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| Posted 02-08-2006 at 18:09
Twenty trees, Hello,
I would like to return up to derbyshire , it is a stunning place.
I did stand on the top of the round barrow with mr david Hay and another couple discussing why the barrow was there.
This mr hay was very well versed in all aspects and details of all the ancient sites of Derbyshire?
I speculated that the barrow was where it was because of a certain series of detectable rectangles, and that origonally the main flow of detectable plasma flow around the henge would have been directed towards a precise spot at the head of a long barrow, Mr hay was suitably perplexed, the other couple were fascinated?
The rectangles measure 55 inch by 34 inch, they are further crossed by many other lines at varying angles.
The rectangles occur at round barrows in the same east/west and north /south alignment of lines, these two alignments have numerous sets of adjacent sets of nine lines, the result of them crossing is to form a large area of rectangles.( sort of main frame of planet?)
Occuring in these rectangles at various places are spirals , they occur where underground water flows are also detectable ( for some reason ?, I can switch at will across many sets of signals ) some dowsers are really good at finding water , some at tracking dragon lines, I am an all rounder?
The henge embankments were IMO, built to capture and direct the flows of two forms of light, this light earths down through the underground water, and also re-emits at the same spot.
If you believed and percieved that all creation occured from this light, and that all deceased life forms returned to this light, to re-emerge and be re-born again, Where would you build a system to accomodate and assist this to occur as precisely as possible?
Arbor Low, seems to fit the bill , quite precisely, twice in fact ( two spots near the centre, thats why the circle is not a circle, bit egg shaped to accomodate both centres and their subsequent further crossing points of many lines.
The system is so simple, it needs someone as simple minded as me to see it?
I further speculated that a change in the strength of some of the lines ( caused by luner alignments ), would be comparable to their gods desserting them, they may have?, and famin and starvation may have occured?
Then if another detectable system strengthened, they would then abandon the previous system of alignment and go with the new gods?
All just a simple mans speculation?
Kevin
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bat400
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| Posted 02-08-2006 at 18:58
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On 2006-08-02 18:09, cropredy wrote:
The system is so simple, it needs someone as simple minded as me to see it?
Kevin
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Kevin -- As long as these various lines, spirals, rectangles are descernable only to you yourself, as forces you can "feel" by dowsing, there is no way that anyone requiring support for your theories can believe in them. Except of course, as an article of faith. You might as well stand at Arbor Low as tell people that God told you about these lines, spirals, rectangles.
Could another dowser, in a blind test, decern the same alignments you do? If you were blindfolded and moved yourself around the site, verbally indicating the lines so that they could be marked, would you find the same lines in the same places the next day if the exercise were repeated?
So long as these types of repeatable, verifiable "proofs" are unavailable, most outside observers will not be able to believe that you really find the things you say you do at the sites, let alone believe that they mean the things you speculate that they mean.
Not meant in any agressive way -- just the situation.
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mithra
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| Posted 02-08-2006 at 19:39
[quote]
On 2006-08-02 17:04, TwentyTrees wrote:
'... and like Arbor Low it has a round barrow overlaying its bank on the south-western corner.'
Think you'll find that this barrow is to the East side of the SSE entrance/exit. (The barrow known as Gib Hill is 330yds SW)
' I'd appreciate any thoughts you may have on why a round barrow should be located there in relation to a henge.'
These barrows were built later. Maybe the one overlaying the henge bank was put there simply because of readily available building material?
'I'd also be interested in any conclusions you may have reached regarding location and alignments'
Trouble is you can make alignments with anything - any group of sites and you will always find that there are plenty of other sites in area which do not 'fit in'. Arbor Low, chambered cairn and Bull Ring are not in alignment.
Also tree cover at the time must be taken into consideration. Mithra
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cropredy
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| Posted 02-08-2006 at 20:23
Bat 400,
I am not going to walk about blindfolded, this has been suggested before, I did try and to some extent succeeded, but its ridiculous, I am trying to uplift my senses not dull them down.
As for other dowsers, yes they do find the same things, but there is no sort of common language or anything.
I met another dowser a few weeks ago at a crop circle that has come down at the rollright stones, we were like twins, he has been doing the dowsing for most of his life, it may be better if I ask him to post on here and explain what he thinks about my dowsing, I will ask him.
I am more than aware of the sceptism , and accept it, I can only hope that by simply saying what I am honestly finding that a link may occur that starts to tie all of this together, sort of a tiny spark, that lights a fire?
Kevin
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flatcap
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| Posted 02-08-2006 at 20:58
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On 2006-08-02 18:58, bat400 wrote:
[quote]
On 2006-08-02 18:09, cropredy wrote:
The system is so simple, it needs someone as simple minded as me to see it?
Kevin
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Kevin -- As long as these various lines, spirals, rectangles are descernable only to you yourself, as forces you can "feel" by dowsing, there is no way that anyone requiring support for your theories can believe in them. Except of course, as an article of faith. You might as well stand at Arbor Low as tell people that God told you about these lines, spirals, rectangles.
Could another dowser, in a blind test, decern the same alignments you do? If you were blindfolded and moved yourself around the site, verbally indicating the lines so that they could be marked, would you find the same lines in the same places the next day if the exercise were repeated?
So long as these types of repeatable, verifiable "proofs" are unavailable, most outside observers will not be able to believe that you really find the things you say you do at the sites, let alone believe that they mean the things you speculate that they mean.
Not meant in any agressive way -- just the situation.
[/quote]
Kev doesn't come across as aggressive to me and nor do you in your post above so why mention it? There are aggressors here tho'. These are the people who constantly demand proof of Kevs findings. A blind man can see Kevin is on a journey of discovery. Why not just let him tell it how it is for him, accept it as his truth and no more.
There is every chance he's one of those CRAZY 'round earth' folk!
mike 
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bat400
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| Posted 02-08-2006 at 22:23
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On 2006-08-02 20:58, flatcap wrote:
Kev doesn't come across as aggressive to me and nor do you in your post above so why mention it?
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Because some people are prickly, though Kevin isn't, and I don't intend my comments to "attack" anyone. I'm generally excited to find the world to be more complex and astonishing. Double-blind tests, and repeatible results make it MORE exciting. Otherwise, I'll go to the movies or read some fiction.
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Why not just let him tell it how it is for him, accept it as his truth and no more.
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And So? Nod politely and ignore Kevin? I don't think anything I do will keep him from reporting as he does! Your comment implies that we (the little community here in this forum and any guests that happen by) each exist in our own little "TRUTH" that has nothing to do with anyone else. There should be no agreed facts. Anyone can present anything and its all equally valid.
I'd dearly like to see Kevin prove something new and exciting! He is on a voyage of discovery - but I hope he finds something that is actually there - and can show it. To treat anyone in this forum otherwise would be, I think, extremely patronizing.
If multiple dowsers "feel" these same things, that's a step in that direction. But if they are all still searching for a common language among themselves, or can't report the same things independantly - well, its not only unproven - but maybe un-prove-able.
[ This message was edited by: bat400 on 2006-08-02 22:25 ]
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mithra
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| Posted 02-08-2006 at 23:13
[quote]
On 2006-08-02 20:58, flatcap wrote:
' These are the people who constantly demand proof of Kevs findings.'
Doesn't the human race need proof of everthing people declare to know whether it's real or not? (And we are not just talking about Kevins findings here.) Suppose I told you that I'd just found a Ladybird the size of a large dog in my garden....would you just believe me, without question? Or would you require some kind of proof?
'A blind man can see Kevin is on a journey of discovery.'
Errr...eh? Quite! Mithra.
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Salopian
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| Posted 03-08-2006 at 08:53
Come on Kevin, you'd be pretty incredulous if someone claimed that there were thousands of giant ladybirds, visible only to them, running along tracks spaced in Fibonacci sequence between ancient sites, wouldn't you?
I'm puzzled as to how you think people should react to that on what is, after all, a forum. Would you ask for evidence? And what if it didn't come? Worse, what if you were told that even asking for it was unreasonable and that your only role was to listen unquestioningly? Would you just sit back in your pew as more and more details of the Ladybirds were delivered from on high?
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cropredy
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| Posted 03-08-2006 at 09:07
Ben-blackshaw, " they used science"
Did they?
That science is what?
Or are you referring to yourself , when you talk of "nutters".
Please define and assign to whom you feel are "nutters" , or are you here just to wind people up?
Kevin
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cropredy
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| Posted 03-08-2006 at 09:45
Salopian,
You know who is to blame for me been present in these forums.
The driving force within me is to determine what is moving the rods in my hands.
I constantly look back a year now, to see myself, and to wonder what I would have made of myself now.
I would have thought , he's odd, but he's not quitting or giving up?
He's very rapidly refining and learning ever so much, especially as he had no interest or basic understanding of any megalithic sites or later so called roman forts and definately no interest in churchs.
Now he can hold his own about these subjects with the best of those who have studied them most of their lives, why?
What the dickens would drive him to keep going to all of these places and saying that they are all connected by invisable lines?
Not only that , but then to further link all of this to those silly crop circles that men in black stomp down on a night?
Well yes , I would definately have viewed myself as very odd.
The reason is because a pair of rods move in my hands, they move very precisely in my hands, so precisely that driven to measure this movement ( by someone, thank you ) he found that they match a sequence of some Italian mathmatician he had never heard of.
And would you believe it, when he checks all these measurements at these ancient sites and churchs etc, they correspond to these constructions, how odd?
At the moment he is delving very deeply into the masons , and finding links to the geometry he is beginning to really understand, he is walking the fields and checking the geometry of the crop circles, only the ones he finds his rods align with , and guess what? the same geometry, and how odd that he can find the alignments to ancient sites that align with these crop circles?
All of this in a year, when he has to also make a living?
When he has to learn to use this bloody thing that he hates .
Yes he's odd, but he always has been reguarded as odd, so any amount of ridicule will be like water of a ducks back to him, imagine what its like been totally grey haired by the age of eleven?
See if anyone on here can match the ridicule he has had to learn to endure most of his life, your all pussycats to him.
He's odd in another way though, he never lies, why should he?
He used to strike out really fast when ever he was ridiculed, but he learn't fast that it is useless, and only gets you black eyes.
Kevin
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