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The Megalithic Portal and Megalith Map : Index >>
Stones Forum >> Arbor Low (again)
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Arbor Low (again) |
TwentyTrees
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from Hayfield
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|  Posted 21-07-2006 at 13:11
After many recent visits to Arbor Low and its surrounding area, there remain a number of unexplained features:
1 why is it on a slope rather than the top of the hill (see previous post)
2 why do the stones appear to have fallen but don't have stone holes
3 why are the cove stones off-centre, and unlike any other cove
The stones are the subject of much debate. Close inspection suggests they have fallen. Some have fractured, with parts located nearby. Some have spaces underneath them. Some have fallen inwards, some outwards.
The central (cove) stones do not appear to form a three sided cove, nothwithstanding some stones remain covered by turf.
Sitting there last Saturday, considering these points, whilst enjoying the sunshine, it occurred to me that Arbor Low may have originally been a passage grave similar to Five Wells, or Newgrange, with its cairn now removed, with the near-central grave stones and the kerb stones remaining.
The stones in the centre of Arbor Low are sufficiently large to form capstones. The stones at the two causeways would, if erect, form entrances to passages. The stone circle would form kerb stones, which, when the cairn was removed, would have fallen inward and outward - they would not have required stone holes.
Chambered cairns, or passage graves, were frequently placed just below the summit in order to accentuate the structure - see Five Wells and Adams Grave - the false crest.
Further, Arbor Low and Five Wells have an intimate relationship. When visiting the evening before the summer solstice it appeared that the sun would set behind Five Wells, on which Arbor appears to be orientated (a visit on the solstice was too cloudy to confirm this idea). And, as ever in the Peak District Minninglow is also visible, as is Tideslow.
That said, the Bull Ring, which is the same shape, size, age as Arbor Low and the same distance from Five Wells, and the same orientation, requires to be considered as part of the same system?
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Salopian
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| Posted 22-07-2006 at 10:43
1 why is it on a slope rather than the top of the hill Dunno.
3 why are the cove stones off-centre, and unlike any other cove
Dunno
"why do the stones appear to have fallen but don't have stone holes"
They wouldn't have been huge, could they have just filled up naturally?
"Some have fallen inwards, some outwards".
Yes, i mused about that when i was there. It sruck me that they fell in the direction that, in each case, it might have been most convenient for a team of people to pull them from without getting blocked by other stones.
"The stone circle would form kerb stones, which, when the cairn was removed, would have fallen inward and outward - they would not have required stone holes."
Well, small ones maybe. I seem to recall one or two of the stones still being embedded at one end, but i take your point.
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mithra
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| Posted 22-07-2006 at 19:37
A local man, William Normanshaw, told the antiquarian Revd.Samual Pegge that he could remember some of the stones standing in the early 18th century.
Salopian is probably right that the holes have filled in over the past 5,000 years. Also there would have been a fair amount of soil erosion over this time, particulary as the area was once tree and shrub covered. Excavators in the 17th century came to the conclusion that they used blocking stones as well to hold the megaliths upright.
The fact that the stones have fallen has been put down to a number of factors including high winds and cattle rubbing themselves against the stones.( as well as human intervention) In their eroded state ( plus the soil erosion) it's not hard to imagine.
Perhaps it built where it was because there was a natural shelf on the slope. Or a clearing in the forest? The general census of opinion is because it could be seen easier from below and also from a ridge half a mile away.
I have noticed a stone 'causeway' in field to left of sign information, which leads up to NW entrance, the land there is very wet in winter. Have been unable to find out how old this is, or if it constructed on top of an older causeway. Either way, it would seem that this is the original direction of approach to this henge.
As for the off set centre 'cove', maybe it was dead centre when they constructed it. Mithra
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cropredy
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| Posted 22-07-2006 at 21:30
BAKE WELL, It must be meant to be?
Anybody dare to meet a strange dowser , out on the Derbyshire hills?
I have never been to this place, but it looks A typical of many similer ones that I wander around, as this thread is sort of out of bounds for me, I wont go into any detail, but I will make the journey and offer my 2 peneth if anyone else wants to go a wandering?
Kevin
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mithra
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| Posted 23-07-2006 at 18:23
On 2006-07-22 21:30, cropredy wrote:
'BAKE WELL, It must be meant to be?
Anybody dare to meet a strange dowser , out on the Derbyshire hills?'
Yes O.k. count me in, I promise I'll play nicely!
Think you'll like Arbor Low. When are you aiming to go? Mithra.
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cropredy
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| Posted 23-07-2006 at 21:03
Mithra,
excellent, will be good to meet you instead of just banging our heads like old bulls?
By the way what is the bull ring that twenty trees talks about?
I am very interested in anywhere that has the embankments and ditchs, and have been searching out many such places, there is one on this link if it works?
in warwickshire at a place called Kings newham, if a new pipe line hadn't have been going through I doubt if anyone would have bothered with it, it has three different embankments, or cursus around two round features, the really telling thing in the report is that they admit they have little understanding of such structures, I would argue they haven't looked in the right way.
http://www.warwickshire.gov.uk/web/corporate/pages.nsf/links.CD26A3C4BF612E6580256DES00575950/$file?summary2002.pdf
Kevin
When you get to the warwickshire site, if you use their search, then ask for field archaeology reports.
then click on the 2002 report and go to page 21, then you will see what I am on about, phew?
[ This message was edited by: cropredy on 2006-07-23 21:23 ]
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mithra
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| Posted 23-07-2006 at 21:54
[quote]
On 2006-07-23 21:03, cropredy wrote:
'excellent, will be good to meet you instead of just banging our heads like old bulls?'
Or is it a case of taking the bull by the horns? I suppose you could always use them as divining rods! (That's a joke - I'm just being silly!)
I shall look forward to it.
'By the way what is the bull ring that twenty trees talks about?'
It's a denuded henge some 20 miles NNW from Arbor Low in a village called Dove Holes. Do not know what happened to the stones, presuming it had some. Must look it up again, I'll let you know more. Only been there once on a very grey wet and windy day, so neither it nor me were at our best!
Sorry your link didn't work properly but think it could be this end as computer/internet on a go-slow this evening. I'll try it again later thanks. Mithra.
[ This message was edited by: mithra on 2006-07-23 23:30 ]
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mithra
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| Posted 24-07-2006 at 21:40
You've gone very quiet Kevin.
What date(s) can you give me for Arbor Low ?
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penguino
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| Posted 24-07-2006 at 21:56
Mithra and Kevin - I would also be happy to come and meet you at arbor low and bull ring - but it would have to be a sunday for me.
sam
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mithra
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| Posted 24-07-2006 at 22:03
[quote]
On 2006-07-24 21:56, penguino wrote:
'Mithra and Kevin - I would also be happy to come and meet you at arbor low and bull ring - but it would have to be a sunday for me.'
Hi Sam, Suits me fine,glad you are willing to join, but Kevin is in charge so it's now up to him to choose a Sunday. Mithra.
[ This message was edited by: mithra on 2006-07-24 22:06 ]
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cropredy
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| Posted 24-07-2006 at 22:23
Sundays are fine for me, anytime that suits others?
I am only unavailable saturdays and tuesdays.
Kevin
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mithra
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| Posted 24-07-2006 at 22:34
[quote]
On 2006-07-24 22:23, cropredy wrote:
'Sundays are fine for me, anytime that suits others?'
Good, any Sunday will suit me, my only flexible day. So Penguino and yourself can suggest any Sunday you wish and it'll be fine with me. O.K? Mithra.
[ This message was edited by: mithra on 2006-07-24 22:38 ]
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cropredy
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| Posted 25-07-2006 at 00:03
Well, I am Okeydokey for this Sunday( I love that word)
If the weathers staying hot , I would rather set off early and would hope to be there for ten AM.
I am 56 years old , going baldish, only 5 feet eight tall, usually wandering around with bright orange dowsing rods and a big ships compass tied from my neck, I drive a blue Citroen relay van.
Do you think you will spot me?
Is there anywhere to meet, or just wander around the site?
Kevin
[ This message was edited by: cropredy on 2006-07-25 00:04 ]
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mithra
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| Posted 25-07-2006 at 12:50
[quote]
On 2006-07-25 00:03, cropredy wrote:
'Well, I am Okeydokey for this Sunday...'
That's fine with me, though I won't be able to get there until between 11am to 12, as it's my turn todo the animals this Sunday morning. O.k?
Easier to meet on site I think. If you drive up farm track there's usually a parking space by the information board, you then have to pay the farmer and walk up through the yard, over the stiles across the fields. (If there's no parking space then you have to park on road verge at bottom of farm track.)
Think I'll be able to spot you O.K.! Mithra.
As a added footnote could you please let me know if this Sunday is definitely on? If so would you mind PMing me just before you leave on the morning and I will then set off a.s.a.p. Ta.
[ This message was edited by: mithra on 2006-07-26 19:18 ]
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cropredy
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| Posted 26-07-2006 at 21:08
Mithra,
I will be there hopefully by ten in the morning, but don't worry if your later, it may be better for me to do some recon of the area, in my strange way anyway, sort of get the feel of the place and pinpoint certain features.
I tend to wander about in strange directions that can be off putting , until you can realise what the dickens I am following.
Hopefully we both can learn some more about this fascinating megalithic world, and look forward to meeting you and anyone else who can make it this Sunday?
Can you make it penguino?
Great name.
Kevin
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mithra
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| Posted 29-07-2006 at 15:08
Hi Kevin
Don't know what you want to do about Arbor Low tomorrow, Sunday, but the good weather has just broken up here. The winds are quite high and it's raining and it looks pretty much the same for tomorrow.
I'll try Weathercall,for Derbyshire area, again later to find the latest. As Arbor Low is higher than where I live and very exposed....!?
Presumably wet and windy weather ain't that good for dowsing? Your call.
Update:
Just been on to Met. office for Peak District/Derbyshire. Weather mixed, definitely rain at intervals plus quite strong breeze to windy on higher ground. (10 to 15+). So still your call, are you still going?
'cos I won't bother if you're not and it's a long way for you to come if you cannot do your job.(I'm trying to be helpful Kevin as it's a easy run for me). Just let me know what you think please O.k.?
[ This message was edited by: mithra on 2006-07-29 19:41 ]
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cropredy
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| Posted 29-07-2006 at 20:29
Mithra,
Bit of wind is no problem, bit further than I thought , so may be a little later , see you there.
Kevin
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mithra
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| Posted 29-07-2006 at 21:47
Quote:
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On 2006-07-29 20:29, cropredy wrote:
Mithra,
Bit of wind is no problem, bit further than I thought , so may be a little later , see you there.
Kevin
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Good, remember to PM me just before you leave please.
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mithra
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| Posted 30-07-2006 at 18:59
Kevin
What happenend to you? I finally left Arbor Low at 3.30pm - no sign of you. (Did leave message on board for you)
Hope everything alright? Mithra.
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cropredy
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| Posted 30-07-2006 at 19:26
Mithra, I sent you a pm to say I would arrive at 11 am , I arrived at 10.50, stayed until 13.40.
Spent most of that time chatting with a David hey, he runs tours of the peak district.
Are you invisable?
I talked with everyone who came to the stones, including a couple of ladies who used to live in the farm, they were interesting they have a collection of axe heads and arrow heads that their granfather picked out of the ploughing.
Found two points in the central area, one has 21 lines crossing through it, the other has 34 lines, 55 in total, the embankments are doing exactly what I presumed they would be.
I had quite a good chat with this david hey, he knows the area thoroughly, I had some different ideas that he found amusing.
Went to the crop circle just outside Stafford on the way up, it is stunning, next to the castle at Stowe .
Kevin
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