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The Megalithic Portal and Megalith Map : Index >>
Sacred Sites and Megalithic Mysteries >> Dowsing secret underground tunnels
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Dowsing secret underground tunnels |
Brightraven94
Joined:
22-11-2011
Messages: 7
from Newcastle upon Tyne
 OFF-Line
|  Posted 23-11-2011 at 14:43
Dowsing secret tunnels.
I have been asked to post something here about what I am doing.
I was shown how to dowse on 22nd July 1993 by a dowser I met accidentally whilst he was painting Castlerigg, a 3,000 year old ancient stone circle just outside Keswick. Remembering the date indicates the impact that dowsing had on me all those years ago.
Very sceptical, (Also open-minded) but willing to give dowsing a chance as I had seen some strange things concerning it on TV over the years, I was nothing less than flabbergasted when the rods moved in my hands within a couple of steps. I like to think that I am a sensible individual who uses common sense, logic and sound reasoning to come to a reasonable conclusion on any subject. This dowsing lark was something entirely new to me. I repeated the test several times with the same result and immediately determined to examine "dowsing" further. That started a quest that is still with me to some degree.
I have had Border Collies for over 40 years and take them\it out walking in the nearby countryside regularly so I took my rods with me. The dog\s got lots of exercise! After a couple of years dowsing using "L" shaped rods made out of metal coat hangers, I was becoming more informed as to what the rods were indicating. Following "widths" of various sizes on fields where I walked my Border Collie dog, I would end up standing on water board "traps" under pavement flagstones (or in fields), BT flags or covers with some form of writing indicating what sort of "track" I was following. In this manner I knew that I was dowsing metal, water, even brickwork when I came around a corner next to a wood and walked into the very end of a ruined brick wall of some building which both rods “straddled” completely. Obviously the wall had once came around the corner but had been demolished and grassed over. No sign of it could be seen around the corner.
I became quite dedicated as this new "hobby" began to take over my spare time. I can not possibly cover all the years as it would take reams of paper but I slowly began to realise certain things. The most glaring thing was the discovery that the rods did not move due to what I was walking over or standing on, i.e. electrical fields which attracted the rods, as I was finding things that were not electrical. I experimented with plastic, metal and wooden rods, even stiff blades of long circular grass and all gave the same results. It was DEFINITELY not electrical.
This was confirmed with a vengeance several years later when I began to successfully "Remote", "Map",(or distance) dowse. I had tried it once before without success so I went back to what I could do and became better at it. I became so good at it (Or understanding what was happening) that I decided to try again. I was successful the second time.
I began finding my "target" dowsing a map at home (I used local ”A-Z” map books for many years, printing out a page at a time and marking the dowsed route) and then confirming it by going to the site. There is NO (sensible) explanation for being able to do this. Naturally, I told no-one what I was doing in the beginning as even I thought it a rather crazy thing to do. If I saw anyone whilst out dowsing I would hide the rods and just became a man walking his dog. Few saw me dowsing. However, results are what counts and my research in local history books only proved the rods to be correct. Once I became more competent, my confidence grew along with it and I no longer cared whether others could see me or not. People later asked me what I was doing and asked if I was writing a book or anything. After many did so, I eventually wrote several articles for various history societies, beginning with the BSD, the British Society of Dowsers. Now I give Powerpoint Presentations, first about basic dowsing and then another talk concerning the specific area that I am giving a talk in. More about that later perhaps.
I was unable to test every single indication of course but that is to be expected; many many times I would follow a width and come to a specific indication that I had followed either an electric cable or a water board pipe or some other identifiable object. In the beginning, I "knew" that "I" was not moving the rods, I had no reason to, I would be fooling myself to what end? Slowly but surely, by constant experiment, I found that I could dowse virtually anything.
The more I dowsed, the more interested I became in it. I even dowsed "railway lines" on the nearby track although the tracks had been physically removed in the 60's I believe. THAT was another eye-opener. I could dowse things that HAD been there but were no longer there! How can that be? However, I was learning all the time and decided to just accept what came and try to learn about it later. Maybe.
Then I dowsed some graves in Bamburgh cemetery. Obviously they were graves as I was looking at headstones! No mounds were present to give clues, all flat ground for the church warden to mow the lawn. Each time I passed over a grave the rods would indicate the size of it! Sometimes on both sides of the headstone. The warden told me that that was not unusual as many people used both sides of the headstone. The rods had taught me something else.
Being able to dowse graves, I immediately wondered if I could a tunnel that I had been told about in the 60’s. I decided to test this possibility by trying to dowse a known tunnel in Newcastle where I live, the “Victoria Tunnel”, built to transport coal from a colliery north of the town down to the staithes on the River Tyne. To cut a long story short, I successully dowsed the top and the bottom of the section that I chose but got the middle wrong. I could live with that. After all, who ever dowsed tunnels? I knew of no-one who did. The top section had a bonus for me. I had dowsed "Steps”going down in a "square" that made no sense to me. I later discovered that that these were used as an entrance to the tunnel when it was used as an Air Raid shelter! I later managed to gain access to the tunnel and walked up the section that I had dowsed just outside Byker. I also walked up those steps and found that my dowse “width” of the tunnel was accurate.
The following week, I parked my car next to the alleged tunnel where a local had told me it was. I found it within seconds (Literally) and tracked it back. It ran beneath my car. This was to happen on a regular basis over the years, I would park my car and the tunnel would be under it.
The local had told me that “local legend” had a tunnel running from a Pele Tower near to where I parked, to a Hall some two miles to the west. I decided to follow that tunnel to see exactly where it led to. Work and family commitments kept me busy so it took over three years to accomplish but by the time I arrived at the said Hall (C16th and allegedly built by the Tynemouth Prior) I had begun to form some idea as to its provenance. There was a (Roman Catholic) church connection to both properties, both having been owned by it in ancient times, the Hall still so and being the Seat of the Bishop of Hexham and Newcastle Diocese.
Before entering the Hall, I completely circumnavigated it and ofund several other tunnels running off from it in different directions. There were not enough hours in the day to track all of them so I decided to follow the one leading to the west. Over the years, I tracked it for many miles to other Halls, Granges (It means “Monk’s Granaries”) Manor House and other larger properties owned by the Gentry. ALL of them had evidence of a tunnel entering and exiting to the STABLE and then out again to the next property. Repetition is what science is about and the repetition that I got showed that all of the properties showed the same trend. I started to believe that these tunnels had ponies taken down them on a regular basis. Why not. Miners have\had used pit ponies for centuries. The Roman horses were small as were the Celtic horses and I suspect that these interbred eventually to give us what we call pit ponies. It sounds reasonable.
I now have a trough of maps of various properties, all showing the same dowsing signs of a tunnel, many of the owners telling me that they knew of such a tunnel and showing me around the property to track them. I have covered much of Northumberland and Durham and have put together several Powerpoint Presentations concerning them. Other signs show where the tunnels lead. Large cracks in roads where a tunnel runs under, also in walls and in many of the properties.
I believe that these tunnels were constructed by the RC Church in the C11th and C12th to allow the religious to effect escape from Viking (Danish) raiders who plagued the coast, resulting in no monasteries being here for over 2 centuries. William the Conqueror gave a third of England to the Pope for supporting him and began building Castles and Monasteries on a grand scale.
I had better cease here as it is getting rather long-winded. Anyone who doubts dowsing works has not been with a competent dowser. I would NEVER have thought that my life would have been so changed by such a strange “art” call it what you will. Over the years I have learned that one DOES make the rods move, that the dowser is the medium that amplifies what the hands\rods indicate, that one can PICK what one wishes to dowse whatever it is. You “tune in” like a radio to what you are after to the exclusion of all else. I began dowsing everything without knowing what it was and developed my understanding as it became more evident what was happening. I can now dowse water, streams, direction of flow, (The rods “point” in the direction) pipes of all descriptions whether plastic or metal, coal mines, tunnels, voids and many other things. However, my forté is dowsing secret undergraound tunnels, graves and voids.
I have discovered around 12 cemetery sites, some of which are known of, some not. On two of these sites, one being in the back garden of the first Hall which was adjacent to a church and cemetery, I have also found strange “circles” around 20 feet across I suppose although I have not measured them. It seemed strange that these MIGHT be “hut circles” (Iron Age perhaps?) and also in the middle of cemeteries. I have no explanation for this and would appreciate t thoughts on the matter.
Anyone with an intelligent interest in dowsing is welcome to accompany me on a dowse or demonstration or ask me a question. I believe that I may be doing something quite unique although I claim no kudos for being able to dowse what I dowse.
Sadly, the County Archaeologist puts no credence in dowsing and denies emphatically that such tunnels exist without ANY investigation whatsoever.
I wrote to Andy and will repeat the letter to him here as it says a bit more about my work. I hope than this has been of some interest.
Hello Andy,
I decided to "interest your members" so joined\registered but on looking
around a bit I see nowhere that my efforts might "Fit in"! Have you a
suggestion? Perhaps my forté does not fit in with your site. If not, no
matter.
As I mentioned earlier, I have been doing this since 22nd July (NOT June as
I mistakenly wrote) 1993 and have a considerable amount of walking under my
belt as well as a copious amount of photographs of various sites where I
have dowsed tunnels into. Many of the tunnels that I have dowsed pass under
roads, brick walls and big houses and evidence of their existence often
shows up as a large crack at the edge of the tunnel in the construction
above. Always at one edge or the other, NEVER in the middle funnily enough.
When I track a tunnel into an ancient Hall, Grange (It means "Monk's
Granary, where the tithes were kept, in Irish "Grainseach) Mansion or Manor
House, it is often the case that where it enters the property (Always the
cellar) a huge crack in the masonry exists. Because of the tunnel\s
existence, it is my belief that subsidence has occurred and this leads to
the cracks in the walls above. As well as this, the owner of the property
often listens to my strange tale with a sort of sceptic air and then
surprises me with a tale of his own to the effect that he\they know of the
tunnel and sometimes even tell me that it is "supposed to lead" to another
property, ALWAYS the property that I had just tracked it FROM. I would not
have kept on dowsing all these years unless I had a strong conviction and I
got that soon after beginning my strange quest. Dowsing is a peculiar art
and virtually unexplainable.
When I looked at your "dowsing maps" for the competition, I instantly got a
definite reaction in the two places (B4 I believe) that I did not get
anywhere else. I am not making excuses, I do not need to. I suspect that
"party games" like that are doomed to failure so I have never gone in for
them before. I may have looked a fool with the two B$s but I got a definite
SOLID reaction when I looked at the map and passed my finger over them. I
have a strong feeling that something else lies there, perhaps a tunnel. I
can not prove anything though. My map dowsing has been tested over
substantial distances and found to be correct. The first time I tried it I
could not do. A couple of years later I was so good at dowsing "on site"
that I decided to try again and got a success. Not only was a tunnel where
the rod indicated on a map, but it even got the compass bearing correct. I
had been tracking a tunnel for some time and had stopped opposite the
entrance to an estate. At home a couple of days later, I tried to map dowse
for the first (Successful) time. I was surprised when the rods moved and
carefully measured the compass bearing. I was quite anxious to get back to
the site and pick up where I left off some yards from the estate's entrance.
Sure enough, I tracked the tunnel to just before the entrance where it
suddenly turned to cross the main road and enter the estate exactly where
the map dowse had intimated. I later tried another test. I wrote to someone
I did not know who lived down south who turned out to be a dowser doing some
dowsing work on tunnels with a group of other dowsers. and asked him to
test me on a map dowse. He was quite happy to do so and on top of that he
too was an Police Officer so I felt that I could trust him. He sent me a
"clean" map of where he was dowsing, a castle with a church nearby and asked
me to dowse that. I did so and found a tunnel exiting a castle tower and
entering the church at an able and another from another tower leading
elsewhere.
No-one was more surprised than I when he wrote back starting with "Spot on"!
I could hardly believe it. He could not verify the second tunnel as they had
not been there but corroborated the first one even down to the angle. I did
this again with someone (Again, I did not know them, I merely took a chance
and wrote to them) on the Internet from Scotland and mapped out a stream for
them and a "suspect" point where I got a reaction. It too got the thumbs up
and the point turned out to be a water trough that she used for animals. I
did another test of this strange "skill" with a couple in Tasmania. They
were unknown to me too and quite happy to send me a photograph of their
property in a line of similar properties on a bank. I marked where water
supply was laid and also pointed (Marked out) a spot under one window which
I detected water under. As it was level with the eye, nothing could be seen.
Again, they wrote back amazed and told me that my dowsing was correct and
the spot marked was actually a fish pond under the window. I realised then
that distance is irrelevant as far as dowsing is concerned but leaves one in
an insurmountable quandary. If reactions happy on site, then one can
understand that SOMETHING is influencing the rods, but 100's or even 1,000's
of miles away? That leaves very few options and one is hesitant to use any
sort of description to events such as that.
Failing your competition unsettles me but there is an explanation, I merely
do not know what it is. However, I am willing to do a remote dowse with
yourself if you have somewhere that I can dowse. I now use Google Earth to
dowse and find it excellent. Do you KNOW somewhere that DOES have a tunnel
in it? If so, if you care to send me a photograph of it, or a Google Earth
plan view of the place, I will dowse it to see if a tunnel does exist there.
I can tell you now that ANY Church circa 11th or even later, any old castle,
or large properties owned by the Gentry or Lords of the Manor will have a
tunnel into it. After 15 or more years tracking them I can list where
tunnels enter and leave. In churches, the tunnel ALWAYS runs beneath the
font and into the vicar's house which is usually adjacent. If a modern
church house is nearby, then obviously it does not go there but under the
original house. I have dowsed these tunnels into dozens of properties and
many churches.
When William the Conqueror came to this land in 1966 to claim "his right" to
the English throne, because the Pope supported his actions, he gave one
third of England to the Church. Over time, this became two-thirds of England
(This may have been a pressing reason for Henry VIII to kill the power of
the Roman Catholic Church in England as they owned more than he did).
When the church came to England they immediately began building monasteries
as the Danish raiders (So-called "Vikings") had laid waste to them for
centuries. No monastery had stood for 2 centuries where the Vikings had
been, especially in the north-east here. It is my considered opinion that
during the C11th and C12th, when the church acquired most of its land and
properties, they decided to safeguard the incumbents of the religious
properties and the only means of escape was underground. I believe that they
then constructed tunnels from one property to another so that they could
walk out of danger unseen. Obviously the entrances would have been hidden. I
have dowsed quite a substantial number of churches both ruined and whole and
the associated tunnel ALWAYS runs directly under the font base which is
usually made of concrete. Most of them have a means of lifting the entire
font from its base and that I believe is how they got underground. In one
case, in Tanfield in county Durham, there is an ancient church which was the
resting place of the monks from Bamburgh who fled the Vikings with
Cuthbert's remains and wandered for seven years until they finally settled
in Durham where the Cathedral now stands. Tanfield church font is actually
slowly collapsing into what I believe is the tunnel beneath. Sadly, these
theories are given no credence by the local County Archaeologist who is
understandably sceptical of this weird art. A great pity as much can be
found by dowsing although the competition might appear to disprove that. I
am willing to show anyone how to dowse. 85% to 95% of people are able to
dowse in my opinion. This is corroborated by groups who were tested in a
University test of students. I have tested dozens of people and it matters
not whether they believe in dowsing or not, around 90% are successful at
dowsing on their first attempt. Their looks of shocked surprise and
exclamations of delight are a sight to behold.
If you know where to place this on your site feel free. You may give my
email address to interested parties. Please let me know where you place it
if you do. Hopefully, this site is not as loopy as one individual suggested
it was! Best regards, Jeff, Newcastle, the site of Aelius Hadrianus' famous
Wall.
Regards, Jeff.
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cropredy
Joined:
01-01-2006
Messages: 5552
from Oxon
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| Posted 23-11-2011 at 18:20
Welcome Brightraven,
Been there, got the tee shirt.
I was taught as a youngster by a family of plumbers.
But in an instant that accelerated, and off I went like Don Quixote.
I have a collie and a Patterdale, they think I am mad , but are super fit.
cropredy
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Runemage
Joined:
15-07-2005
Messages: 2412
from UK
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| Posted 23-11-2011 at 22:14
Thread tidied.
Hi Brightraven and welcome.
You're the only dowser I've encountered who has concentrated on tunnels. It's interesting that some of the property-owners have actually confirmed the location of the tunnels you previously dowsed, that in itself is an achievement.
Have you tried map-dowsing for tunnels in another country? I'm wondering because Aluta, one of our US contributors has found several contradictory statements about the existence of secret tunnels in her home town, perhaps you'd like to have a look and see what you think. http://www.weirdnazareth.com/2009/05/tunnel-question.html
Rune
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rogeralbin
Joined:
08-10-2010
Messages: 196
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| Posted 24-11-2011 at 01:46
Hi Brightraven,
tunnels, not one I had considored maybe that could make that a remote dowsing exercise, here on Hitlers Atlantic wall I'm sure I could find some examples not well known.
Rog
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Brightraven94
Joined:
22-11-2011
Messages: 7
from Newcastle upon Tyne
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| Posted 24-11-2011 at 02:24
Yes, but not for a long time and not very deeply. I have dowsed as far as Tasmania successfully as well as hereabouts in Scotland and down in southern England.
I had a look at the Nazareth site and read most of the blurbs about tunnels. Funnily enough, the picture at the top hit me instantly as it looks remarably like a picture I took of a "passageway" underneath the pavement in a street in Newcastle City. If you would like to contact me by email, I will send you a copy so that you can compare them for yourself. One might even say that the same builder built them or at least followed the same plans they are so close. Similar minds I suppose.
[Moderator edit. Email address edited out to avoid spambots or unwanted contact and this sentence substituted.My email is available to interested people if you contact me by pm first.]
I have much to say but not enough time or space to write it. However, as it applies here, I shall say this. When I read a letter or see a picture of a property, if the name of a property is written down, the minute I read it I get a dowsing reaction (A clicking in my ears usually) that tells me that I am on a hot target, i.e. a tunnel is there. I have triple checked this on site wherever possible and proven it to be correct.
As I read the letters on the site I got three such reactions when I read the "name" of the place. The first was Nazareth itself, which tells me that tunnels exist in Nazareth, the second was the "Manor House"(Nazareth Hall)and the third was the "Moravian Church". "Whitehouse" did nothing for me at all.
These are obviously not as old as some of "my tunnels" (Between C11th and 1850 or thereabouts. Dating is difficult except when I have a document that is dated regarding a tunnel. For instance, my very first tunnel has several old documents written about an attached tunnel leading down to the River Tyne and I KNOW that that one at least, probably the others there too, are PRE C16th. How? Because Henry VIII Dissolved the Monasteries around the end of the C16th. Tynemouth Priory was given up to the crown by the last Prior, Robert Blakeney, in 1539. This included all of its properties in Northumberland, including the site of my very first major tunnel (in Benwell) therefore the monks HAD to have dug it before that date. I have a corroborating document delcaring that the monks dug that particular tunnel so I have "who" and I have "when".
America's history is quite different from ours but tunnels do exist there, of that I am certain. Al Capone had tunnels dug in various places and others are written about in different areas. They may not have the same dating or reason for their existence but they still exist. I once read of an American town ??? I do not remember where, that was "duplicated" underground for reasons forgotten. People have told me about "shop windows" being under Newcastle and I have taken pictures myself of "windows" blocked up under the pavements of Newcastle. Sadly, the archaeologists have no interest in, or even accept their existence and nothing appears to be written about them so I have to rely on my own research.
Happily, I now have a dozen or more old documents that support both the existence and location of several of the tunnels that I have dowsed. The best example that I have is one of my books. It is "The History of Newcastle upon Tyne" a facsimile of a book by Henry Bourne published in 1736. It confirms several tunnels in the town that I have dowsed and even states where they are. I dowsed a set of tunnels between ALL of the amncient churches in Newcastle many years ago and mapped them all out. However, English Heritage (? stated that it was impossible as they would not converse with each other and would not co-operate with each other. I tend to say rubbish as I believe in my dowsing results and the books confirms it. It speaks of one tunnel for instance "In the Nun's garden" which connects to the Dominican monastery nearby (Blackfriars) and even gives the name of the chap who saw it, a servant of Sir William Blackett who owned literally half of Newcastle with his mansion in the centre encompassing the Nunnery and a monastery (Francsican). He actually built or had built, his Mansion from the ruins of the Friary that stood on Pilgrim Street. This is therefore all provable as anyone who can read can corroborate this.
I have spent a substantial amount of time dowsing in Newcastle and have discovered an underground network of "passages" (As opposed to tunnels) in the "Town" (Newcastle is both a Town and a City so both names apply.
I can personally guarantee that there are passages beneath the pavements as I have personally accessed them. The owners of the premises that they belonged to were quite happy to allow me into them. However, these passages are NOT of the same age as the tunnels that I track. The tunnels I am certain date from the earliest at the C11th but the passages in the Town are only of much later date, . I can not date them but suspect somewhere around the C18th. I believe they were used to access neighbours shops (Possibly houses too) and asking in various shops where I tracked them into, occupants were well aware of their existence and spoke of them running along the entire street. I am already certain of that as I have already dowsed the streets and have found these passages all over the Town.
I have dowsed four "Tunnels" from the quayside that run under St Nicholas' Cathedral (C14th I believe) and run up into the Town and into various ancient properties including the Nunnery site of the St Bartholomew Nuns who began in Newcastle around the C12th.
The passages I believe, were used by merchants in the Town to transport their wares but I could be wrong. I am also not surprised as I already know about and have dowsed Edinburgh which literally had an underground "city". That is historical fact. Many people lived underground there as there was little room in the walled city so all they could do was build down. There is an excellent book on that which I read some time ago.
I had better close now as it is 2:21 AM and I need some sleep. I trust this is of some interest. Regards, Jeff, or "Brightraven" (A translation of my name yet not my name! I use it as my email address. Etymology and onomastics has long been of interest o me and I find it of great use in my historic researches).
[ This message was edited by: Runemage on 2011-11-24 10:00 ]
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Runemage
Joined:
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Messages: 2412
from UK
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| Posted 24-11-2011 at 10:10
Hi Brightraven,
Ah, posting in the wee small hours 
You've replied on the forum to a pm I sent you which mentioned Aluta's search for tunnels in Nazareth PA, USA. Here's the link so other people know what you are referring to.
http://www.weirdnazareth.com/2009/05/tunnel-question.html
You put your email address in your reply. Some people don't mind doing that, but other people find sometimes they have all sorts of unwanted contact from strangers and spammers if they put their email address online. I've removed it from your post to be on the safe side.
Rune
[ This message was edited by: Runemage on 2011-11-24 10:14 ]
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AngieLake
Joined:
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Messages: 550
from Newton Abbot, Devon
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|  Posted 25-11-2011 at 11:01
Hi Brightraven
I've only had time to read your first comment on this thread so far, but am now wondering if the person you contacted 'down south' about the tunnel leading from a castle to a church was Tony Heath?
He is/was (we've temp disbanded due to age/illness of some members) the 'leader' of our small dowsing group here in south Devon, and we're still in regular contact.
On 12th May 2002 we dowsed Tiverton Castle's tunnel, which leads from the castle to the nearby church. Looking back on my personal dowsing record for that day, there was a long west-curving route from a circular-shaped [another tower? or was it a shaft?] access point that then led WNW-ESE diagonally across the churchyard [N of the church], and another route leading N-S straight from the castle tower to the east window of the church. The tunnels met just to the NE of the church.
Tony was a policeman in London in his younger days, so it could have been him who said 'Spot on!'
I don't believe I've dowsed any other tunnels, but remember finding this one quite easy to pick up.
It was helpful that its existence was known, as I'd have probably doubted myself otherwise.
You might have read on another thread that I do ritual movement dowsing, which is pretty hard to prove!!! However, it is fascinating in that, quite often, certain features of the site [or even other outlying stones] come into focus, possibly indicating new interpretations of its use.
Have you ever tried this?
Tony taught me to record everything I find, and that's been invaluable.
As a group we'd produced a yearbook of our records over many years now, on a regular basis. (I met him and two others on Dartmoor in 1997 and that's what set me off!)
I did smile as I read how you concealed your interest in dowsing initially, as people do make you feel as if you're a bit loopy!
The hiding-of-the-rods still happens at times!!
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Brightraven94
Joined:
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Messages: 7
from Newcastle upon Tyne
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| Posted 25-11-2011 at 13:34
Hi Angie,
Nice to meet you. I read your post with interest. It is some time since I exchanged information with him and I had to struggle to remember his name. The more I read it, the more I believe it WAS Tony Heath. Sadly, I have done a search through my archives but not found anything under his name.
It could be because I lost the newest of three HDDs (40GB) and lost several years of mail and ALL my contact information. :=( Copies were kept but on separate partitions of the same drive so they went too ending up with me having to slowly reconstruct contacts. I will never have the lost ones unless they contact me again. I Always keep duplicates but now keep them on separate drives. One learns by one's mistakes.  ( Happily, half a dozen copies of my dowse section with photographs was kept so that was a life-saver. I kept the drive and had hoped to find someone who might save the information. 40 GB is nothing now as I have 3 x 500GB HDDs. Dog knows what will happen if I lose THAT lot as I am NOT keeping gigs of HDD spare.
Reading your post further I came to Tiverton Castle so I am now searching under that! Before I forget, he told me that the group was going somewhere abroad (Cyprus? Sicily?) in the Mediterranean where they were dowsing for some (Female god's?) temple or other. That may gel with you?
Bingo!
Found the photographs! Yes, Tiverton Castle. I wonder if Tony showed you my dowses that I sent him? I hope that Tony is Ok? I would not mind if you gave me his email address (Or you give him mine) so we can re-make contact? My email address is floating around in here somewhere but Andy and Rune both have it if you ask.
Ritual movement dowsing??? I have not a clue as to what that entails. You will have to enlighten me. That made me remember something that I dowsed a few years back. I will write about it below to see if anyone else has "twisted" dowsing knowledge to this extent. I have done many strange things to test dowsing but this one was probably the strangest.
Walking my Collie in the local grassy area studded with paths in the deep but unwalked on snow early one day, I noticed the track of a bicycle crossing my path. No-one else was around at the time so I was free to dowse. I wondered idly if I could dowse the HEIGHT of the person on the bicycle and as I bent down to roughly ground level and rose to full height I was imagining someone on a bike in front of me. Blow me down with a feather, the rods moved in roughly where I would have expected their head to be. Repeating this I got the same results every time. Obviously this is decidedly unscientific and not quite what dowsing is known for but I stretch myself all the time and try the most outlandish procedures whilst out dowsing. How else can one learn the limits but by testing them?
I am convinced that dowsing is only restricted by the limits of the dowser's imagination. If you think that is crazy, fine, but I have never been disappointed when I tried new methods of dowsing. It may not work first time as my deviceless dowsing ability and remote dowsing did not work 1st time for myself, but I kept practising "standard rod dowsing" and later went back to those and was successful. All other "strange" trials gave instant results.
Tony sent me a copy of the groups' dowse afterwards but when I compare the two they are NOT exactly the same although the points of entry are!! I was happy enough with his comments as we had both dowsed the right results albeit the precise route differed somewhat. He also said that the group would be going back to see if my other tunnels dowsed there proved correct but we broke contact there and with my HDD going down I was unable to check further.
I have dowsed several local castle since then and will post something on them if it is of interest to anyone?
The "Hiding of the rods". Hmmm, as I am now VERY confident due to my competence improving so drastically over these many years, (Since July 22nd 1993) I am no longer the novice that I was so am quite open with it now. In fact I dowsed passages all over (Under) Newcastle City Centre and the outskirts amongst a whole city full of people with no problem. Of course many asked what I was doing so I taught them to dowse and got many new bloods to the game I hope.
A funny thing happened to me some years ago. I contacted this chap with a site who seemed quite history oriented to get some information. To elicit a good response, a long time ago I had decided to tell people what I was doing in order to gain their confidence and did so with him. He surprised me by asking if I would do an interview with him as he had a regular programme slot on the local radio !
Not being a radio listener I had no idea who he was but decided to do it in order to get more information from listeners (I only got one response and went out with this chap and his talkative (!) son to dowse a tunnel that he had heard about in an area unknown to me. I found it and he was surprised). As a kid going to school through the woods there he had often heard voices beneath the ground. He knew that it was miners going to work!
The radio chap brought a female assistant with him and interviewed me in my house. I took him just outside my house into a large adjoining field which had long been my dowsing test bed (A LARGE field which has "Pillar and stall" workings beneath it! My first coal mine find) .......... I found this quite by accident although I live in the Northumberland (Durham is the same) coal fields which have been mined for coal since Roman Times and I live between three separate mines (Now closed) so I knew that this mine was not unusual......
I taught both him and his assistant how to dowse and the queaks of surprise and delight came from BOTH of them. The assistant began following a pipe in front of us which I had known of for a long time while he interviewed me and she shrieked "Why are the rods turning right?" I laughed to myself as I replied "Because the pipe branches off there and runs up the field". I knew that as I had dowsed the entire field many times.
Back to my first mine find.
My Collie dog (Lucky) ran around getting healthier whilst I dowsed following behind. The rods hit something and I discovered a WIDE width. Tracking it sliding my feet in the snow, I ended up back where I had started! I had walked in a rectangle about 20 feet x 12 or 15. I instantly realised that I might have found a "pillar" so worked outwards and found others. I dowsed the entire field that day and you could see my tracks forming oblongs all over behind me. The passageways (Stalls) were not very large, maybe 6 to 8 feet wide and one could start at the top of the field and meander right down to my house! I tracked one of the passages into my own back garden and it ran\runs right through my living room and out of the bay window into the street where it branches in two directions.
Here's the kicker. As I dowsed through my living room I walked into an "entrance" (The rods opened out) which opened outward into a roughly 8x8 feet square with another exit on the far side leading to the street outside. I believe this may have been an underground room or perhaps a ventilation shaft which lies beneath my house (!?!)? A cousin of my wife had a mine shaft directly under her house which prevented its sale for several years as no-one accepted responsibility for it. Eventually the NCB ?? accepted it and they moved out! Apparently the only options were a costly fill of the shaft or a concrete raft beneath the house. The dangers of living in this coal field is often apparent.
I had dowsed this entire square in my living room WITHOUT finding the entrance and exit, years earlier (In 1993) when I came home off holiday from Keswick when the dowser had first shown me how to dowse. The square was found in seconds when I dowsed inside my house (Again hiding myself from prying eyes as I did it inside).
Dowsing is funny. I had known of the square but NOT about the exits, which confused me. How could I have dowsed the square and yet not found the two exits? We will never know. It was this square that I tested anyone who was curious to know about dowsing to see if they found it. Around 85% to 95% succeeded.
You must be asleep by now so I shall cease. I hope that I have answered your questions. Nice to meet you even if you did not know me then you obviously know who I had corresponded with. Regards, Jeff.
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AngieLake
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from Newton Abbot, Devon
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| Posted 26-11-2011 at 01:08
Hi jeff
I've emailed Tony a link to your thread, so he can browse through it.
It was Cyprus, where he is at the moment!
Best wishes
Angie
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Brightraven94
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from Newcastle upon Tyne
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| Posted 26-11-2011 at 10:24
Cheers. Jeff.
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On 2011-11-26 01:08, AngieLake wrote:
Hi jeff
I've emailed Tony a link to your thread, so he can browse through it.
It was Cyprus, where he is at the moment!
Best wishes
Angie
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Aluta
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from PA, USA
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| Posted 26-11-2011 at 11:35
Just saw this now. Thank you, Rune, for asking about the Nazareth tunnels, and thank you, Brightraven, for checking into them. I would like to see that photograph you mentioned if we can arrange it. These tunnels were dug by the Moravians, who have a history of tunnels. Some towns they occupied centuries ago before they cam here are known to have tunnels that go four layers deep. Yet it is the Moravian Historical Society that denies their existence even in the face of many other townspeople recalling being in them.
I don't know anything about dowsing, much less remote dowsing, but I wish I could sit down with you with a detailed map and have you give me an idea of where you think the tunnels ran.
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Brightraven94
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from Newcastle upon Tyne
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| Posted 26-11-2011 at 16:56
Hi Aluta,
Thank you for the response. I use Brightraven as my email address as it is my (Sur)name yet not my name. It is a translation of it. Call me Jeff. Short for Jeffrey it is a corruption of Geoffrey/Godfrey/Godfrei and means "Peace of god". ALL names mean something (Yours is not in my books but you may have access to it somewhere else).
I do not know how to post pictures on here or even if they are allowed and it may be considered too excessive.
Personal email is acceptable to me in this instance. I do not know you but am happy for you to contact Andy or Rune and get my email address from them as I instigated the contact. I can then send a copy of the picture to you direct. ? Do you live there? I live in NE England next to Hadrian's Wall so a lot of history around here with plenty of Roman forts etc.
Dowsing is a strange art\skill or whatever you want to call it. Dowsing is well known by many so that is the general term used. Divining is a bit off the mark as Dowsing is finding something whereas divining per se is actually figuring out what it means! However. many erroneously call dowsing divining.
Yes, I would love to have better contact so we could talk, as long distance exchanges via other intermediaries or sites really are not 100% satisfactoy and often take longer.
I was surprised at the entrance photograph on your site as I said as it reminded me so much of the one that I had discovered. I found two, one next door to the first one and they were both basically like that!
I use Google Earth a lot, much of the time for map\remote dowsing before I go out, (I can dowse the upright screen as I pan around the country\side) and have looked at PA to see the town but it is too large an area to focus on. I may be able to dowse the area better if you can get the location down a bit finer. The church for instance. Name and precise location would give me a chance. Results are better when a few 100 feet above the building and it can be seen fine enough to know what it is.
I wonder how old it is although "your" tunnels do not appear to be as old as the ancient ones (circa C12th to C19th) that I dowse most (NOT the photographed step we are talking about which I SUSPECT may be around the early C18th). Sadly, I am unable to find any documentation on these C18th?) passages as I do not really know where to start. How can I ask for a book? "Have you a book on the underground secret passages at X" does not work I have tried it many times. I believe that I may be doing something unique as no-one else seems to be doing it so it makes it very difficult to bounce ideas etc. off someone else. Old history books give evidence of tunnels all over locally and I HAVE tracked almost all of them as soon as I could after reading about them. That is a great boost.
Over the last two decades, many people on seeing me dowsing outside have told me that they have heard a "legend" of a tunnel at "X". I went there as soon as I could and dowsed for it and ALWAYS found dowsing evidence of them.
I have not dowsed even ONE such legend and found nothing. In other words, I am fairly convinced that these so-called "Legends" are actually distorted folk memories which have been handed down through the generations. I have been all over Newcastle and Durham and parts of Scotland and found the same evidence. These tunnels exist all over the place and my maps now show an incredible network of "spider" like tunnels, all leading from one village to another. N do not recall any village that has no tunnel, usually in the Church. Many castles show the same tunnels and their connection to the other properties. I have slowly built a fairly comprehensive map of the tunnels in Bamburgh, some 46 miles to the North of my location as we went on holiday there for many years. I discovered not one but two Monasteries and a Pele Tower (Ruin) by following the dowse. They are both described in the Dugdale Monasticon.
My point is that people pass down "secrets" and you seem to have much evidence of that which rather points to their existence already.
Tracking the tunnels led to properties where often the owner KNEW of them although many fobbed me off negatively until I told them what was what in their property. Then they became VERY talkative and corroborated my dowsing. I can always point to their cellar as the tunnels always enter a property in that location. Another repetitive dowsing phenomenon. I point to it and say is that where your cellar is and they have nearly ALL said yes.
Sometimes they say there is no cellar but others knew of a cellar there. Old locals know the most as the young are generally disinterested as a rule. Those cellars were obviously filled in. I have no doubt now. Some were known to have been filled in by the owners, although why anyone would do that to a perfectly good room is beyond me. I suspect that it may have been to prevent unwanted access into their property by someone who knew of the tunnel and that makes sense.
I can tell you one thing. I have been dowsing underground voids, tunnels, graves, wells and much more since 1993 and consequently have come across many repeats of the same thing in different areas. Although dowsing is not considered scientific (I do not consider it so either) Science is proved mainly (As far as I know) by proven repetition. If that is the main criteria then I have to say that dowsing IS scientific. I get tunnels leading from the same places every time so long as the properties are pre C18th. ALL "Lord of the Manor" type properties have the same evidence of tunnels leading into their stables and out again leading to the next Manor House, church, or whatever.
Dowsing tunnels into churches, the tunnel has ALWAYS ran directly under the font and I sincerely believe that that was the point of access for the religious escapees. Likewise wells. I have dowsed and found dozens of wells (Proven by the farmers who covered them up as they were no longer needed) and they straddle the tunnel or run alongside with an "off-shoot" entering the well.
Our tunnels (England, Scotland and Wales I have dowsed them there too) were constructed I believe as a consequence of religious persecution and stems mainly from the C11th and C12th when William the Conqueror gave a third of England to the Pope. I explained this in an earlier post. The monateries near the NE coast were re-founded as Viking raids had closed them all down for over 2 centuries and that is partly why I believe that they decided to dig these escape routes to protect the religious.
I have been researching tunnels for a long time and KNOW that many were dug MANY centuries ago. even in Biblical times.
The Gihon Spring is a fine example.
The 1750 feet long tunnel was constructed by King Hezekiah to protect the water supply of Jerusalem from the Assyrians during Sennacherib’s siege of 701 B.C.
During one Jewish war against invaders, (Later King) David (His name means "Loved thing", work it out) entered Jerusalem ("City of Peace" and City\Town of the Jebusites) by using a well-known local "secret" tunnel. Jerusalem had a Wall (As did most towns including mine) built to encompass the entire town. This left their water supply, (The Gihon Spring) outside the city. They were terrified of invaders beseiging the town and preventing access to the only water so they dug an underground tunnel from the well into the city where it is accessed via the Siloam Pool. Anyone can easily find out about this now on the Internet as it is famous.
In France a couple of (French) brothers have spent years investigating many tunnels in various locations and their findings are excellent. Persecution is often the reason for a secret tunnel and that has occurred all over so these tunnels ("Mine") are NOT exclusive to England. America is somewhat different.
The USA was founded on the principle of ALL are welcome to a refuge from persecution even down to the first migrants from England to land on the later named Plymouth Rock.
It is therefore a little surprising to find secret tunnels there although religious persecution HAS happened there too (Salt Lake City is a good example).
The ones you write of appear to have been constructed for the same reason that I believe my Newcastle's passages were made. i.e. to allow access between adjoining shops\houses. I KNOW that these passage run all over Newcastle under the pavements. What you do not see, you do not think about so most people I imagine have not a clue as to what lies beneath their feet.
I will also send you a copy of another photograph of what those steps lead into. Bearing in mind that the passage lies UNDER the pavement, there are WINDOWS in both sides of the passage lying at the bottom of the steps, one obviously looking into the house\shop cellar where it came from, but the other window looks onto what is now nothing but the foundations of the road above! They are all blocked up with breezeblocks now.
This suggests (To myself at least) that the road MUST have been much lower. Why else would the windows be there???? BUT, if the ground was at that level and the windows looked over an older deeper road, the passage would obviously be above ground??? That makes no sense unless it was only built AFTER the road was deepened. Perhaps that is the answer. Sadly, I do not have any connections to someone who might know the story. There are many unanswered questions in our history but steady investigation often uncovers the truth.
This has taken some considerable time to composes so I hope that this has been of interest and I look forward to a future exchange. Apologies for the length of this treatise. I had not intended to write so much. Regards, Jeff.
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On 2011-11-26 11:35, Aluta wrote:
Just saw this now. Thank you, Rune, for asking about the Nazareth tunnels, and thank you, Brightraven, for checking into them. I would like to see that photograph you mentioned if we can arrange it. These tunnels were dug by the Moravians, who have a history of tunnels. Some towns they occupied centuries ago before they cam here are known to have tunnels that go four layers deep. Yet it is the Moravian Historical Society that denies their existence even in the face of many other townspeople recalling being in them.
I don't know anything about dowsing, much less remote dowsing, but I wish I could sit down with you with a detailed map and have you give me an idea of where you think the tunnels ran.
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Aluta
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from PA, USA
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| Posted 26-11-2011 at 18:33
Jeff, thank you. Very interesting. I have your email address from Rune and will write to you. As for the meaning of my name, well, aluta is not my real name, just my Portal name.
And you are right--the tunnels almost certainly were dug in the 1700s. Persecution could have something to do with it--the Moravians were disliked by their neighbors at the time. But I suspect the real reason was two-fold, first to allow people to go from house to house (and possibly for a fire tender who kept people's fires going while they were at work. The community consisted of Moravians only, a tight-knit community, until 1850), and second, to hide the young men when soldiers were being recruited for the Revolutionary War. The Moravians did not believe in war and certainly didn't want to fight on behalf of the English-speaking leaders of the colonies.
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Brightraven94
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from Newcastle upon Tyne
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| Posted 26-11-2011 at 20:39
Hi,
Yes, I had assumed it was a pseudonym but even they have meanings so I went for it anyway.
I had a search for my own pictures and found them. It has been 5 years since I last saw them. There is not a strictly identical look to yours and mine but I believe they are still very similar. You will have to have a look for yourself. When I took the pictures I well remember the occasion and looking at yours I still say they strongly resembled each other. I should have taken more photographs of mine. I suppose they would have to really as a tunnel is a tunnel is a tunnel. Anyway, I am happy to send copies and you can make your own mind up.
You might not be happy to hear this but I strongly feel that both of your suggestions for their existence seems unlikely in my humble opinion.
If they were that friendly to each other I am quite sure that they would possibly have left a key somewhere or even left their doors unlocked. Even today people leave keys under plant pots etc. How hard would that be.
People do similar things for people today although I can't say that one individual would go around many neighbours to stoke their fires up. Maybe one or two, yes, but a whole street? I feel not.
Communites such as that often left their doors open as did the coal miners community just a mile or so away from here. As a young man I used to collect Insurance from many of them and many just told me to "Come in and the money will be on the sideboard for you" and it WAS. They would often be out so I just let myself in and did the job and left. I never had a problem. However, I would not do that now as times have changed. It is too easy to be accused of stealing or whatever. Occasionally, in other areas, a neighbour would come out and tell me to take the key she had been given and go in but I would ask her to accompany me as proof that I was only doing what I should be doing in case of accusations later. If not, then I would refuse to go in and I was more comfortable with that arrangement. Nowadays, houses end up like Fort Knox! Those days were different though.
As for the second reason, look what happened during the Vietnam war when concientious objectors refused to go. They got on their bikes and left the state, many going to Canada where they could not be gotten by the US authorities. How easy would it be for the authorities to find them virtually under the front porch? Maybe with sniffer dogs. No, I find that reason too unlikely. I suspect that most people in that position would prefer being miles away from their home territory and let their parents visit them with grub etc.
Even so, who would want to spend all that time constructing a tunnel for such menial reasons. It would be quite a heavy task for such a small reason. Hence I think that highly unlikely. Over-kill even. No, I believe that it was done for something else. After all, secret tunnels were usually made for a reason, generally so as NOT to be seen by anyone. Only those in the know would be aware of them.
It is difficult to know what certain things were for in olden times. Especially in a different country! I KNOW why some tunnels were constructed and mostly it was for security and no-one "outside" was supposed to know about them, like in the case of most of the tunnels that I dowse. Or maybe like Jerusalem, they were built to carry water, used as a conduit. That makes a lot of sense. I think you will have to get your thinking cap back on there, sorry.
If you can get a good photograph to me or a detailed plan of the property\ies concerned and I do find evidence of a tunnel, I suspect that it may well be like "my" tunnels and run for miles connecting lots of properties all over the place like a spider's web.
In my dowsing I have followed a tunnel\s for miles and often ended up walking into the next county in some cases, even under the river. Many are no longer open and many have been destroyed. I know this because local people watching me dowse and speaking to me have told me that "Monk's tunnels" were found when open-cast mining was done right across the tunnel and walking around the quarry (Still there) I could easily pick it up on the other side.
In another case I tracked a tunnel from one farm to another (Both previously owned by the church long ago) and the farmer\s told me that the whole area had been open-casted (A quarry dug right down for perhaps 200 feet and ALL coal extracted and then the quarry hole afterward filled in with soil and grassed over.
This is one of the stranger aspects of dowsing. An "object" or anomaly may have been removed or destroyed long ago but the rods seem not to care. There appears to be a form of "remnance" left behind. This also applies to people who have been in one place and then moved. One can still dowse their presence as if they were still there. Yes, crazy, but true.
I found this out the moment I found (Dowsed) a pair of railway lines near my house on the old railway track. I found that they had been physically removed in the 60's I think it was. HOW can you dowse something that is not there? I do not know, I just know that a good dowser can. I also believe that that is why some dowsers fall foul of "testers". They think that what they have dowsed is still there and it is not necessarily there! A dowser has to know what is happening and the more one tests it, the stranger it gets. I am off-target again so shall cease and desist. Regards, Jeff.
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Aluta
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from PA, USA
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| Posted 26-11-2011 at 22:34
Well, you may be right. It is impossible to say. It's worth mentioning, though, that we are not talking about a settled society, but one that was frontier and primeval forest 25 years before, and groups like strong cliques with no real governing going on in these territories.
The Indian wars were probably over by the time these tunnels were dug, but the Germans were considered subhuman by the English, and the Moravians, who lived communally rather than by family and had very strange religious and sexual practices were pariahs even among the German speakers. Census taking way out at the edges was unreliable even among those who spoke English, but nearly impossible with the Germans who had sometimes secretly intermarried with Indians and did not want their illegal spouses and their children to be forced west with others of their race. Only in the last 10 years have the secret Indians started to declare their presence here.
There is a record of the construction of the Manor House and I have seen the English translation. In 1754 they cut down primeval forest consisting of enormous oaks, beeches and chestnuts in order to clear the land for the digging of the foundation. I think the tunnels were built by 1780 at the latest. As recently as 1740 they had to cut their ways through the forest just to get to the area that was to become Nazareth, as there was as yet no road for their wagons, just Indian paths.
The life these people lived is unimaginable to me, so it is not surprising that my guesses as to the reasons for the tunnels may be wrong. I sent you a link to a map of the nearby wood where there are many springs, because I have often wondered if the tunnels wouldn't have gone there so people could gather water without walking across the land unprotected.
Many thanks for sharing your thoughts! Food for thought. I love seeing things from new angles.
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Aluta
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from PA, USA
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| Posted 27-11-2011 at 22:08
Oddly, today I discovered a discussion of the tunnels on a Nazareth group on Facebook, just started yesterday. After years of not thinking much about it, the topic came up (resurfaced?) simultaneously in two places.
[ This message was edited by: Aluta on 2011-11-27 22:09 ]
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Runemage
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| Posted 28-01-2012 at 14:01
More info on tunnels, don't know how many of these would be considered secret, but for this locality there's w lot of info.
http://www.secretleeds.com/about-secret-leeds.htm
See their fora for photos in different categories.
Rune
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LittleEnki
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from Largo,FL
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| Posted 31-01-2012 at 15:18
Here in Tampa, we have Egmont key, an island that was used by the Spanish to defend Fort Desoto. The island has a network of underground tunnels that were prison cells and administrative structures back in the 1600s. They have since covered the tunnels with monded earth, but I am going out there by boat to try some tunnel dowsing for my very first actual dowsing effort ever. Until we go, I'll be practicing in my yard and trying to get a feel for it. I'll let ya'll know how it goes!
Thanks for the inspiration!
Littleenki
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