Featured Title:
Bending the Boyne: a Novel of Ancient Ireland |
 |
| The Stone Circles of Britain, Ireland and Brittany, Aubrey Burl |
 |
| Login |
|
Don't have an account yet? You can create one. As a registered user you have some advantages like your own home page, fewer ads, and your contributions link to your page. |
| Who's Online |
There are currently, 130 guests and 5 members online.
You are a guest. To join in, please register for free by clicking here |
| |
Moderated by : Andy B , TimPrevett , coldrum , Klingon , MickM , TheCaptain , bat400 , davidmorgan , Runemage , SolarMegalith , sem
The Megalithic Portal and Megalith Map : Index >>
Stones Forum >> Biggin Hut Circles
|
 |
| Author |
Biggin Hut Circles |
Andy B
Joined:
13-02-2001
Messages: 7001
from Surrey, UK
 OFF-Line
|  Posted 29-05-2012 at 09:49
malboll writes:
Has anyone got any information or opinions about these circles near Biggin (Derbyshire) please? There are four well defined circles (plus a rectangle) in this field crossed by a public footpath and several other discernable circles in adjoining fields. I can only suppose from the apparent lack of publicity that these are known to be modern - if this is so, then perhaps a difinitive statement would prevent future confusion. {Altough I sincerely hope that they are ancient!)
Lat: 53.132064
Long: -1.759701
 Profile
 Email
 Reply
|
Andy B
Joined:
13-02-2001
Messages: 7001
from Surrey, UK
OFF-Line
| Posted 29-05-2012 at 09:56
Very impressive aerial view:
View Larger Map
Looked up on Derbyshire HER via Heritage gateway - and hooray I can now get the location search to work!
Not prehistoric unfortunately
http://www.heritagegateway.org.uk/Gateway/Results_Single.aspx?uid=MDR1024&resourceID=1023
Three ring banks identified on an aerial photograph, all in the same field with a possible outlier in the next field to the west. Observed by C Hart on 20th April 1977 and identified as World War II anti-aircraft gun emplacements and a brick hut.
There is lots of prehistory around there that we don't have listed however - have a go
Liffs Low Bowl Barrow, 1030m north-east of Dale Top Farm, Hartington Nether Quarter HARTINGTON NETHER QUARTER
Round barrow, Aleck or Elk Low, Hartington Nether Quarter HARTINGTON NETHER QUARTER
End Low bowl barrow, 890m north-west of Stanedge Grange, Hartington Town Quarter HARTINGTON TOWN QUARTER
Bowl barrow, Friden Hollow, Middleton and Smerrill MIDDLETON AND SMERRILL
http://www.heritagegateway.org.uk/Gateway/advanced_search.aspx
Open the 'search by grid ref' bit at the bottom - then you have to put in a grid ref (SK161594) and click a little red (non obvious) square next to it to move the map cursor to that location.
Profile
Email
Reply
|
frogcottage42
Joined:
14-02-2010
Messages: 235
from tuosist
OFF-Line
| Posted 29-05-2012 at 22:44
I don't buy that! I have spent a good part of my life crawling over anti aircraft gun emplacements and have worked on and with a good many anti aircraft guns, ranging from 30 cal up to 4.5" and I have never seen an embrasure that looks like these.
Firstly the military are very anal when it comes to this stuff and would have produced nearly identical features- these don't appear to be even the same size.
Secondly why would you dig a ditch on the inside of the bank and not the outside?
Thirdly there is usually a gap to get in and out and some evidence of a trackway which usually shows up in aerial photos because they tend to need good access ( a typical 3.7" AA gun weighs around 12.5 tonnes with it's trollies)
Even if this was some home guard affair with a couple of Lewis guns it will be recorded somewhere so look to the archives.
It would be easy to prove either way, a metal detector will show up any WW2 activity, there is always some metal left behind.
It is also worth looking at the greater area, if it was an AA post there will be enclosures for the range finder and the hut would have been connected by telephone
Meanwhile back to the photo. The enclosure bottom right below the hut looks ok for a gun enclosure but the two close together look far more barrow like.
If you zoom out there are at least 15 similar features within 1 mile at least five of which seem to fall on fence lines?
Also there is a well defined ancient landscape visible and several of these circles seem to fit with this rather than cutting any older feature.
I would urge closer scrutiny before dismissing these just because the Archeos have listed it as 'possible WW2'
Saying that if they were AA guns the others around the area could be bomb craters but I don't believe so.
Profile
Reply
|
Andy B
Joined:
13-02-2001
Messages: 7001
from Surrey, UK
OFF-Line
| Posted 30-05-2012 at 17:03
I can't find it listed on the Defence of Britain project
http://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/archives/view/dob/ai_q.cfm?CFID=121595&CFTOKEN=266A6314-B090-420D-80B54E684AA9418A
mind you that is just anti invasion sites so I don't know if this would count
Profile
Email
Reply
|
Runemage
Joined:
15-07-2005
Messages: 2412
from UK
OFF-Line
| Posted 30-05-2012 at 17:30
By coincidence, this set of photos caught my eye, I was hoping something circular would give a clue, but I don't think it helps.
http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/news-abandoned-wwii-fortifications?image=0
Profile
Reply
|
MALBOLL
Joined:
22-03-2010
Messages: 4
OFF-Line
| Posted 30-05-2012 at 22:45
In addition to the physical features already mentioned in this area, there is a great deal of disruption caused by small scale lead mining activities, railway construction and natural 'sink holes' to add to the confusion.
Circles which when viewed from above, fall on fence lines, often turn out to be 'Dew Ponds', positioned (for financial reasons) so that animals in adjoining fields can share a water supply. However, its always worth checking.
Another simple way to confirm the A/A theory would be to ask the farmer (who unfortunately, was 'not home' when I visited). They are generally friendly and very knowledgable about their land in these parts.
Profile
Reply
|
Andy B
Joined:
13-02-2001
Messages: 7001
from Surrey, UK
OFF-Line
| Posted 03-06-2012 at 15:12
Thanks for posting some photos Mal:
http://www.megalithic.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=a312&file=index&do=showgall&gid=676
Profile
Email
Reply
|
Runemage
Joined:
15-07-2005
Messages: 2412
from UK
OFF-Line
| Posted 03-06-2012 at 18:42
Circles which when viewed from above, fall on fence lines, often turn out to be 'Dew Ponds', positioned (for financial reasons) so that animals in adjoining fields can share a water supply.
I'd beg to differ, I've never seen one with a fence through it, for the following reasons.
Dewponds are constructed from several layers, the important one being puddled clay over chalk. This forms a watertight seal. Poke some fenceposts through that and it will leak like a sieve.
I've never seen any type of pond with a fence through it.
Rune
Profile
Reply
|
frogcottage42
Joined:
14-02-2010
Messages: 235
from tuosist
OFF-Line
| Posted 03-06-2012 at 21:24
Oooh! that top photo is just begging for someone to take a shovel to that raised area in the centre, it does look rather like it may conceal a ring of bolts and a bit of concrete.
Saying that the more I look at the overall site on Google the more I suspect that possibly one AA installation is drawing the focus away from a lot of undoubtedly earlier circular features.
Profile
Reply
|
MALBOLL
Joined:
22-03-2010
Messages: 4
OFF-Line
| Posted 26-06-2012 at 01:32
Hi Rune,
Please find attached photo of a typical Dew pond on a fenceline, complete with fence
bhttp://www.megalithic.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=a312&file=index&do=showpic&pid=90264&orderby=
Profile
Reply
|
Runemage
Joined:
15-07-2005
Messages: 2412
from UK
OFF-Line
| Posted 27-06-2012 at 22:42
Hi Malboll,
Sorry, but I'm not sure that's a dewpond. Any puncturing to the ground area results in it draining away.
There's a decent description of their constuction here, about threequarters of the way down the page. http://www.rexresearch.com/airwells/airwells.htm#dewponds
Rune
Profile
Reply
|
MALBOLL
Joined:
22-03-2010
Messages: 4
OFF-Line
| Posted 29-06-2012 at 01:15
Hi Rune,
Mr James Mycock (whose great-grandfather commissioned the construction of this 'thing' in 1907) was sure that this was a Dew pond, but says that as you know more about his farm than he does, then we must bow to your superior knowledge 
Profile
Reply
|
davidmorgan
Joined:
23-11-2006
Messages: 1604
from The New Forest
OFF-Line
| Posted 29-06-2012 at 09:41
Dew ponds tend to be built on downland at altitude where water is in short supply, rather than in valley bottoms like this one, which is probably just a pond that taps the water table.
Profile
Reply
|
Runemage
Joined:
15-07-2005
Messages: 2412
from UK
OFF-Line
| Posted 29-06-2012 at 23:15
Hi Mal,
Tee hee!
I must admit dewponds have been an interest of mine for quite some time and as I live in the right type of area for them, I fancy building a small one in my garden using the traditional methods ~ one day, when I have the time.
Here are some links showing descriptions and images of dewponds, their constructions and one family of builders. I'm even more sure now that the image you submitted doesn't show one. Apologies to Mr James Mycock, but I think he has a different type of pond
http://www.glaucus.org.uk/DewPond2.JPG
http://woldranger.blogspot.co.uk/2011/08/nunburnholme-wold.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File SRC="images/forum/icons/icon_biggrin.gif">ew_pond_-_west_of_Chanctonbury_Ring.JPG
http://www.yourlocalweb.co.uk/east-sussex/milton-street/pictures/page2/
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Neolithic-Dew-ponds-Cattle-Arthur-Hubbard/dp/1410205118
http://dewponds.co.uk/biblio_spirit_of_the_downs.htm
http://www.westsussex.info/dewponds.shtml
http://marketlavingtonmuseum.wordpress.com/tag/dewpond/
http://wanderinggenealogist.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/sheepdrinkingatdewpond.jpg?w=494&h=372
http://archive.org/stream/dewpondshistoryo00martrich#page/n7/mode/2up
Then there's the folklore of dewponds
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mirrors-Magic-Evoking-Spirit-Dewponds/dp/1898307849
and a dewpond as experiential art within the landscape.
http://www.thixendale.org.uk/info/ChrisDrury/
Rune
Quote:
|
On 2012-06-29 01:15, MALBOLL wrote:
Hi Rune,
Mr James Mycock (whose great-grandfather commissioned the construction of this 'thing' in 1907) was sure that this was a Dew pond, but says that as you know more about his farm than he does, then we must bow to your superior knowledge
|
|
Profile
Reply
|
MALBOLL
Joined:
22-03-2010
Messages: 4
OFF-Line
| Posted 01-07-2012 at 21:11
Quote:
|
On 2012-06-29 09:41, davidmorgan wrote:
Dew ponds tend to be built on downland at altitude where water is in short supply, rather than in valley bottoms like this one, which is probably just a pond that taps the water table.
|
|
Hi David,
Biggin is not in a valley - it sits on a limestone plateau with very thin topsoil at over 1000ft amsl. There is an eroded limestone pavement just a few yards NE of this pond. The karst drains into the river Dove, more than 300ft lower and less than two miles away, hence the water table is dozens of feet below the surface and there is no natural surface water.
This particular pond has been concrete lined at some stage but has now been rendered obsolete by the provision of a float operated trough and so is no longer maintained. The fence rests upon the concrete below a thin cover of soil and is there to prevent stock from padding into the adjoining field.
Anyhow, back to the original thread - I have visited the site again and the 'possible outlier in the next field to the west' is actually another concrete Dew pond (honest!) and there is not the slightest vestige of a brick anywhere to be seen in the field with a 'brick hut'. I'm not convinced that the identification from the aerial photograph is completely accurate.
Profile
Reply
| |
|
|
|
|
|
IMPORTANT NOTES: This site uses COOKIES. Please do not use this web site if you do not agree to our Terms and Conditions of use.
If you plan to visit ancient sites in person, please make sure you follow our Charter.
Articles, photographs and comments are the property of their respective authors or contributors, please contact them for permission to reproduce. Site design ©1997-2012 Andy Burnham.
|
Main News