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ledgehammer
Joined:
29-06-2011
Messages: 727
from Surrey
 OFF-Line
|  New Message Posted!2013-05-20 23:46
Quote:
| Tom , Dowsing a pattern doesn't make it a geoglyph .
What make you think I don't “like “ Fibonacci . He was a fine mathematician who introduced eastern concepts into the discipline ,what's not to like .?
Yes spirals have been and are still a common feature of dowsing plans .
If they change then that is interesting .
Being blindfolded and someone marking out the shapes then you or someone else replicating the same feature at the same spot would be also be interesting .
George |
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"Geoglypths" or rather "pictograms" is the adoptive phrase, differentiating from an actual phenomena to pre-conception is a difficult one for an outsider to judge, as speculated previously (here I think).
Fibonacci (meaning the use of fibonacci to explain nature in a far more basic way than it is), I haven't evidence of fibonacci but the spiral looked very similar to a fibonacci spiral (actually in part to my dismay, but further indications suggest repeatability)
With your final sentence, If I dowsed something and marked it out, then someone else were to this isn't full proof, as some tests seem to indicate a trace of dowsing remnance (I am not sure how), kind of like an imprint. I find myself dowsing blind folded a lot these days, as the experience increases so does confidence which can lead to wishful results, however this process can be most time consuming, but it is surprising how much difference it makes.
perhaps a series of shapes being dowsed in the same location, and then these shapes measured for correlation? That is assuming the shapes are not person specific (very unlikely). Most dowsers haven't investigated this avenue too much, its my new project.
Best
Tom
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davidmorgan
Joined:
23-11-2006
Messages: 1603
from The New Forest
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2013-05-20 23:40
"4 out of five. "
Not bad. I got the last one wrong, did I?
Should be...
Cropredy - "I can't because you're an unbeliever who won't see the light that doesn't shine"
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tiompan
Joined:
09-01-2005
Messages: 2644
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2013-05-20 23:04
Tom , Dowsing a pattern doesn't make it a geoglyph .
What make you think I don't “like “ Fibonacci . He was a fine mathematician who introduced eastern concepts into the discipline ,what's not to like .?
Yes spirals have been and are still a common feature of dowsing plans .
If they change then that is interesting .
Being blindfolded and someone marking out the shapes then you or someone else replicating the same feature at the same spot would be also be interesting .
George
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tiompan
Joined:
09-01-2005
Messages: 2644
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2013-05-20 22:43
It is bad enough with all the usual off topic interjections into threads but this is getting ridiculous and incredibly boring .
Constantly repeating the same mantra doesn't make it true or make anyone more likely to believe it .
You are incapable of of finding “stuff” , that's ok . What you “detect “ is unrecordable and the only evidence is only available to you i.e. “providing evidence in My own way” that's fine too if you want to believe it , but don't think others simply buy into the fantasy without question .
The next level of belief concerning the relationship between the “flows “ and megalithic monuments and even “everything is made from the substance flowing along the lines “ provides another step up in humour and difficulty in providing anything resembling evidence .
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ledgehammer
Joined:
29-06-2011
Messages: 727
from Surrey
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2013-05-20 22:37
Quote:
| Tom , yes ,dowsing is defined as a magical practice because that it was it is and was . No need for “ witching, using devilish ways to achieve their ends, I can just see these cloaked figures now, evil eyes shining through “ magical thinking is what normal people do all the time . It doesn't make it right or nefarious .
Some q's . What is the rough area the design ? how many markers are used for the five petals ? Where is the shape found ? Do others find the same shape at the same place ? If so , were the others aware of the design and how was it confirmed that their findings replicated yours in design and location or vice versa ?
I never described dowsing as an art .
As mentioned a few times dowsing for specific “stuff “ has been tested often enough under conditions acceptable to both dowsers and testers and dowsers never manage to achieve results better than chance . Hers's a recent not very strict example but typical .http://www.uiowa.edu/~osa/burials/Dowsing.pdf .
Avoiding the pitfalls of failing to find recordable stuff only means that it is not only more difficult to prove the negative it is also equally difficult to prove the positive and in such cases the burden of proof is upon the claimant .
Yes cymatics are great fun , repeatable ,predictable and explicable and one of the phenomena investigated by early scientists , which in no way detracts from the wonder and if anything adds to it .
George |
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George,
Thanks,
The "geoglypths" are a phenomena which has baffled me, baffled me enough to investigate more. One major problem with this is I haven't been able to map out and measure the shapes being dowsed. With the spirals (I know you don't like fibonacci, so I'll try to detach), we are talking in ratios rather than size, the bigger the spiral the bigger the magnification - interesting if it is in fact self generated.
The areas I have dowsed with the geoglypths haven't been massive, other than at Brodgar where the shapes were simply too big to quantify. The occasions where I have dowsed I have ended up at the same point while (from memory) observing the number of petals.
This hasn't been compared by other dowsers, because the shapes change. For instance if some time is spent at a site the geoglypths change, they form other geometric shapes - the similarity is with the shapes being dowsed. For instance I have dowsed several shapes within the same area, I ignored this for a while, then after finally linking up with the b.s.d I found the shapes were found by many other dowsers in many situations. Now the B.S.D and most dowsers, will say that this happens at ancient sites, it does, but it also happens in many other places, on a smaller scale, especially areas where organic life is concentrated i.e wooded areas.
It is not a repeatable phenomena per se, but in the observations that I have the shapes are of a scale, and share key components. I intend on doing some measuring and some comparisons and tests. How do megaliths fit in, well the centre point of megaliths (not always centre) normally houses such a phenomena, but they can be found other places in megaliths also. The place in which energy lines cross a node is found, this node is essentially a spiral formation, it is bigger in size if the energy lines are bigger, but the spiral is scaled up, rather than having more rotations.
What gets me with this is,
a)how I am able to dowse a shape and end up in the same place, the shape appears to be perfectly sized. I have measured and marked this out but, if I am dowsing and marking it could be seen as manipulation i.e filling in the markers. The best way here is to dowse, possibly blindfolded, and have someone else mark the area. I am suitable acceptive that this is a phenomena outside of my creation, and the shapes are different, I couldn't guess them.
b)how the same shapes seem to re-occur at different places / and in some cases the same place by different dowsers, this could be explained by the "wanting to find a sacred shape", I have no interest in sacred shapes, but what is there, and even then I didn't know some of the shapes previously.
Thankyou for the pdf file, It was an interesting read.
Best
Tom
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cropredy
Joined:
01-01-2006
Messages: 5531
from Oxon
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2013-05-20 22:06
davidmorgan,
4 out of five.
I can show anyone.
You can lead a horse to water, but You can't make it drink.
cropredy
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davidmorgan
Joined:
23-11-2006
Messages: 1603
from The New Forest
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2013-05-20 21:53
Cropredy - "I feel the force"
Tiompan - "What force?"
Cropredy - "What? You don't feel it?"
Tiompan - "Show me"
Cropredy - "I can't"
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cropredy
Joined:
01-01-2006
Messages: 5531
from Oxon
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2013-05-20 21:03
YOU are the one making never ending personal attacks.
You constantly say that I and no other dowsers can do what they say they can.
That is exactly the self same as calling Me and all other dowsers LIARS.
YOU have no earthly way of knowing what I or any other dowser can detect , you can doubt it all You like , but it is more than that You state in fact like manner that nobody can dowse or provide proof......I can and will...stop calling Me a liar
You or anyone are most welcome to test what I can do, there is no reason or drive for Me to PROVE anything, I am not lying....STOP with all of the fact like insinuations.
I don't have a clue what splenetic means, but it is YOU GEORGE who is doing the never ending personal attacks....YOU, and I am more than any other right in the firing line so notice it far more accutely.
There are not countless unsupported claims, there are countless truthfull claims, and I can detect the flows, whatever they are.
cropredy
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tiompan
Joined:
09-01-2005
Messages: 2644
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2013-05-20 20:52
As is often the case those who have nothing to add to the debate resort to splenetic personal attacks .
What are you moaning about , if you don't don't mind debating why don't you just do it .
"I will have absolutely no problem whatsoever of providing evidence in My own way that can be measured and checked f0or accuracy. "
Lol .
"If I were to do the very self same as regards planetry movements and past locations in every thread debating such , and to demand PROOF at every post " . Feel free , although as you have mentioned no evidence that would satisfy anybody is likely to be coming from you , when requested .
There are countless Unsupported claims ,as highlighed in the previous post e.g. "What you can't do and what other dowsers claim to be able to do is detect “stuff “
Just think how effective it would be if you actually could ?
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cropredy
Joined:
01-01-2006
Messages: 5531
from Oxon
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2013-05-20 20:28
Now You are lowering into posting lies.
There is no way or reason for Me not to look forward to debate and enter into differing views, and to state in a fact like manner that I am concerned about not hearing any dissent about anything is a lie.
As for You again adding in the "unsupported claims" again this is lies, there are multiple dowsers who find self similer detectable findings as I do, they are mostly put off entering such as this place because of the ridiculous attitude and obvious agenda that You and many others portray.
As for Your opening garbage about myself and other dowers detecting "unrecordable" is crap.
And I say again I will have absolutely no problem whatsoever of providing evidence in My own way that can be measured and checked f0or accuracy.
As yet there is no method to determine the flows as such to suit the current rubbish so called scientific methods as it is so much above that limited to 3D stupid science religion.
In any debate or discussion a healthy level of sceptism and doubts are needed, but with You it is constant attempt at killing off debate with Your obvious venom of never ending fact like statements decrying dowsing and adding in such as mumbo jumbo and a host of similer contemptable words and sentences.
If I were to do the very self same as regards planetry movements and past locations in every thread debating such , and to demand PROOF at every post , You too would be as sick to the back teeth as I am presently.
You have no proof merely visual assumptions, Your stupid science doesn't know what life is, what light is, what gravity is, or is not.
It is all the current accepted best guesses.
This section of the forum does not demand anything to CONFORM with any scientific assumptions, it is about broadening out our comprehensions further than limited and very current assumed facts, none of which will have existed in the time frames relative to this forum.
I am surprised that calls for Me to be banned have not surfaced , as in other forums, but I have been most carefull not to provide the ammunition for such which in My opinion is part of your agenda.
cropredy
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