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Forum: Stones Forum
Moderated by : Andy B , TimPrevett , coldrum , Klingon , MickM , TheCaptain , bat400 , davidmorgan , Runemage , SolarMegalith , sem
Respond to: Ness of Brodgar
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Runemage
Joined:
15-07-2005
Messages: 2412
from UK
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|  New Message Posted!2012-10-08 17:32
It's just an overview, but so nice to see an archaeology article in a mainstream newspaper.
Neolithique put it on the sitepage comments,
http://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=17401#48090
Still needs correcting though as Stenness loch is saltwater, not fresh, I'll link to here.
Rune
[ This message was edited by: Runemage on 2012-10-08 17:34 ]
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Andy B
Joined:
13-02-2001
Messages: 7001
from Surrey, UK
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| New Message Posted!2012-10-08 15:41
I'm wondering whether to reference that Guardian article on our front page, are there any new discoveries announced in it or is it just catch up?
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tiompan
Joined:
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| New Message Posted!2012-10-08 11:02
No problem with Maes Howe definitely aligned , but the suggestions were for Brodgar.
George
Quote:
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On 2012-10-08 10:07, Equinox wrote:
Unfortunately I could'nt get up to the Ness this summer to have a look at the horizon myself. Thom took measurements of the fairly low-lying horizon, but many people were unconvinced of his possible lunar alignments, as you say.
However, many other investigators have suggested possible alignments in the area, this from the http://www.maeshowe.co.uk website:-
"There are a variety of astronomical alignments which may have been intended by the builders of the Standing Stones. While many stones are missing, simple observation suggests many possibilities. These relate to the solstices and the equinoxes as well as times such as Beltane (Old May Day). At winter and summer solstices the sunrises and sunsets align with the stones and notches in the hills. Other outlying standing stones may be markers for specific times of year also. At spring and autumn equinoxes, viewed from the Comet Stone, the sun sets just glancing off the westernmost stone."
Maes Howe is not far from the Ness and is visible from the Stenness stones - the main passage is said to be aligned on the winter solstice.
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Equinox
Joined:
17-03-2010
Messages: 29
from Rochester
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| New Message Posted!2012-10-08 10:07
Unfortunately I could'nt get up to the Ness this summer to have a look at the horizon myself. Thom took measurements of the fairly low-lying horizon, but many people were unconvinced of his possible lunar alignments, as you say.
However, many other investigators have suggested possible alignments in the area, this from the http://www.maeshowe.co.uk website:-
"There are a variety of astronomical alignments which may have been intended by the builders of the Standing Stones. While many stones are missing, simple observation suggests many possibilities. These relate to the solstices and the equinoxes as well as times such as Beltane (Old May Day). At winter and summer solstices the sunrises and sunsets align with the stones and notches in the hills. Other outlying standing stones may be markers for specific times of year also. At spring and autumn equinoxes, viewed from the Comet Stone, the sun sets just glancing off the westernmost stone."
Maes Howe is not far from the Ness and is visible from the Stenness stones - the main passage is said to be aligned on the winter solstice.
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tiompan
Joined:
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Messages: 2656
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| New Message Posted!2012-10-07 18:12
It's worth having a look at the horizon from the Ring of Brodgar and pinpoint what you might consider prominent landmarks that might make a decent foresight ,then compare these with Thom's suggestions . Only one of Thom's , Hellia is anything like obvious the rest are featureless hill slopes . Worse , his calculations were based on a date for the obliquity of the ecliptic that would place the monument midway between the Early - Middle Bronze Age probably out by at least 500 years . He did not propose any solar alignments for the site .
George
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Equinox
Joined:
17-03-2010
Messages: 29
from Rochester
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| New Message Posted!2012-10-07 17:05
Maybe they were interested in seasonal turning points such as the solstices - and so the cycle of birth and death naturally follow on. They may also have noticed the female aspect of the monthly lunar cycle. I have a feeling that the place of women in Neolithic society has been underestimated!
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davidmorgan
Joined:
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from The New Forest
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| New Message Posted!2012-10-07 16:25
Obviously archaeo-astronomers always like to tie every ancient site into their thinking, but who knows what the Ness of Brodgar guys were up to?
I think one thing is certain - death and respect for one's ancestors was a huge part of their spiritual beliefs, even more so when the neolithic folk stopped being semi-nomadic and properly settled down in one place. Probably the worst mistake humanity ever made was to start believing that the land was theirs.
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Equinox
Joined:
17-03-2010
Messages: 29
from Rochester
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| New Message Posted!2012-10-07 15:29
Rune, that's well spotted - I read the article and never noticed the mistake about the Stenness Loch actually being salt-water!
But is does demonstrate that this was a special place for the people who built the structures at the Ness. The horizon may indeed have been used to make observations of the moon from the stone circles at Brodgar and Stenness and this just adds more interest to the whole area. It's good to see something about prehistoric astronomy in the mainstream media.
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Runemage
Joined:
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Messages: 2412
from UK
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| New Message Posted!2012-10-07 14:41
Agreed, good article all except one important point,
" The promontory separates the island's two largest bodies of freshwater, the Loch of Stenness and the Loch of Harray." That's the first thing google brings up and is quoted on wiki, but I think it's wrong.
I'd always understood that the area's liminality was enhanced because Stenness loch was saltwater and Harray was freshwater.
This is from a fishing blog, http://www.odinorkney.com/pages/fishing.html
"Across the road from Odin is the Stenness Loch. The loch’s semi-marine environment dictates that it is very much affected by the state and height of the tides, causing wide fluctuations in water height and salinity in the loch. Odin again has the privileged position of being situated between the fresh water loch of Harray and the salt water loch of Stenness – an angler’s dream"
Rune
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Equinox
Joined:
17-03-2010
Messages: 29
from Rochester
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| New Message Posted!2012-10-06 21:09
A very nice article on the Ness available on TheGuardian's website:-
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/oct/06/orkney-temple-centre-ancient-britain
Some lovely speculation on the function of the Ness complex - and it's very nice to read about possible astronomy at a Neolithic site in a mainstream UK newspaper 
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