Featured Title:
Stone Circle Greetings Cards |
 |
| John Michell: From Atlantis to Avalon |
 |
| Login |
|
Don't have an account yet? You can create one. As a registered user you have some advantages like your own home page, fewer ads, and your contributions link to your page. |
| Who's Online |
There are currently, 133 guests and 1 members online.
You are a guest. To join in, please register for free by clicking here |
| |
Forum: Stones Forum
Moderated by : Andy B , TimPrevett , coldrum , Klingon , MickM , TheCaptain , bat400 , davidmorgan , Runemage , SolarMegalith , sem
Respond to: Stone Type
|
| Review your Reply |
caradoc68
Joined:
24-06-2010
Messages: 34
from Yeovil
 OFF-Line
|  New Message Posted!2011-11-23 10:06
Quote:
|
On 2011-11-21 11:24, karloff wrote:
Hi
Or, perhaps the act of moving monoliths was a reason unto itself. The effort involved may have been an integral part of the building process without which there was no point to the monument.
Maybe it was not just the choice of stone from West Wales , it was also the use of people to move them to Salisbury Plain. Perhaps people from two different cultures/tribes/clans working alongside each other was the reason as well as a physical joining of two landscapes as embodied within the monument.
|
|
This is a very good point most Archaeologists tell you how but not why ! I like the idea of clans coming together for one goal that is to build a monument and yes I think it would straighten the ties between the tribes/clans.
Stonehenge is a very large circle and l don't think it should be used as a blueprint for the rest of Britain, even though it is my believe that the blue stones were brought from the west because that is where the sun sets, but that is a different story.
I did have the Grey Wethers stone circles in Dartmoor in mind when I wrote this , as all the stones are of the same shape that is a flat slab type even though a few are a strange shape the over all shape is flat slab and all the same hight, and all of local granite. I did hear once that these two stone circles could of been the efforts of two tribes coming to gether to build one circle each, one from South Dartmoor " South circle" and one from North Dartmoor "North circle". This could of been to straighten the ties between two tribes/clans, as to what point perhaps it was to trade a communicate ?.
[ This message was edited by: caradoc68 on 2011-11-23 10:09 ]
|
karloff
Joined:
20-10-2006
Messages: 605
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2011-11-21 11:24
Quote:
|
On 2011-11-19 11:29, caradoc68 wrote:
I thing it was importuned for these early monument builders to get the type and shape of these rocks right, but on the other hand you wounded want to be carrying these rocks to far so they would of been using local stone most of the time any way.
|
|
Hi
Or, perhaps the act of moving monoliths was a reason unto itself. The effort involved may have been an integral part of the building process without which there was no point to the monument.
Maybe it was not just the choice of stone from West Wales , it was also the use of people to move them to Salisbury Plain. Perhaps people from two different cultures/tribes/clans working alongside each other was the reason as well as a physical joining of two landscapes as embodied within the monument.
|
caradoc68
Joined:
24-06-2010
Messages: 34
from Yeovil
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2011-11-19 11:29
How I love these Megalithic debates, as one comment can lead to all an all out warfare, it was only one question ! and by the end it turned into over 300 years of monument building where idea's would of changed away about the type and shape of rock used anyway.
I thing it was importuned for these early monument builders to get the type and shape of these rocks right, but on the other hand you wounded want to be carrying these rocks to far so they would of been using local stone most of the time any way.
|
karloff
Joined:
20-10-2006
Messages: 605
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2011-11-03 10:18
Quote:
|
On 2011-10-28 23:46, sem wrote:
Recently there has been a lot of discussion down-below (Mysteries Forum) regarding the types of stone used in megalithic monuments. Cerrig pointed out that Stonehenge used two specific types and paralled this with the pyramids at Ghiza. Other examples include -
http://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=2107
Saith Maen where six of seven stones are local but number3 (or 5 depending on your way of counting) is of old red sandstone, a glacial erratic.
http://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=30303
Carn y Gigfran where local rock was ignored and the cairn was built from a few rare outcrops.
There are many monuments South Wales where the builders took great care in utilising "rare resources" but the parallels in England don't seem have been recognised by the archaeos.
On both counts, any suggestions why?
|
|
Hi
Nice topic Sem!
The choice of materials used in the construction of prehistoric sites does seem to have deliberate messages. Apart from the more famous examples (SH etc) I know of one late Iron Age enclosure which seems to "mirror" the geology of the surrounding landscape. Half of the monument is walled with one particular rock whilst the other with another reflecting the direction from which the stone originates. What's particularly interesting is that this site may have represented a trading place between Iron Age tribes so the utilisation of these particular rock types may reflect an idea of unity or shared investment. Liminality perhaps?
|
cerrig
Joined:
25-09-2009
Messages: 918
from Brecon Beacons
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2011-11-02 23:59
Quote:
|
On 2011-11-02 19:46, Martin_L wrote:
Yes, here (Denmark, Germany, Netherlands) it usually is same type (granite) used for both the orthostats and capstones.
Quote:
|
On 2011-11-02 18:30, cerrig wrote:
Martin, would you know whether the covering stones were the same type as the main chamber stones.
|
|
Martin, what about the stones that were used in the covering mounds?
[ This message was edited by: Martin_L on 2011-11-02 20:25 ]
|
|
|
sem
Joined:
12-11-2003
Messages: 1722
from Bridgend,S.Wales
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2011-11-02 22:42
davidmorgan wrote
"but to imply that they knew the geological processes involved is rather extreme in my view"
I agree, but they would have been well aware of rock types being associated with each other. eg in SWales millstone grit was laid down upon carboniferous limestone, which in turn had been laid down upon old red sandstone. This can be clearly seen at various places. However, glacial erratics often appear outside this layering and as MartinL said (albeit in a different location), they are often treated as special.
These three types of rock also have properties/uses that ancient man considered important. The millstone grit has quartz pebbles in it and even without considering the "mysteries properties" was obviously much-prized and used in monuments. Limestone contains veins of chert, which after flint and obsidian is the best rock for making tools. Old red sandstone is, as it's name suggests, red and has been used exclusively for some cairns in this area.
http://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=30387
Even without hypothesizing on magical properties for these different types (eg ors/red ochre = red = blood/amniotic fluid = birth/rebirth), I would suggest our ancestors were well aware of rock types and how they could use them.
|
Martin_L
Joined:
04-10-2007
Messages: 795
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2011-11-02 19:46
Yes, here (Denmark, Germany, Netherlands) it usually is same type (granite) used for both the orthostats and capstones.
Quote:
|
On 2011-11-02 18:30, cerrig wrote:
Martin, would you know whether the covering stones were the same type as the main chamber stones.
|
|
[ This message was edited by: Martin_L on 2011-11-02 20:25 ]
|
cerrig
Joined:
25-09-2009
Messages: 918
from Brecon Beacons
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2011-11-02 18:30
Martin, would you know whether the covering stones were the same type as the main chamber stones.
|
Martin_L
Joined:
04-10-2007
Messages: 795
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2011-11-02 16:25
Quote:
|
On 2011-11-01 20:59, sem wrote:
[...] It's good to know that those isolated by fog on the other side of the channel had similar ideas [...]
|
|
Thanks Sem and Cerrig 
1) regarding type of rock:
In general the mentioned European Funnel Beaker culture (isolated by fog.....  yes indeed haha) seemed to prefer the easily available sources. These often were only granite erratics . Unfortunately it is hard to tell how many erratics there originally were and if they possibly sometimes/often decided to transport some special ones from a more distant area when the local ones were not "good" enough. In (few) areas where local rocks were available they also quarried.
2) regarding choice of specially shaped stones:
(again some observations from over the channel Funnel beaker culture)
The flatest surfaces of the glacially smoothened erratics often were placed at the chamber entrances. Example: http://www.megalithic.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=a312&file=index&do=showpic&pid=45232
More rare erratics with two flat faces (in an angle of 90° so one flat side faced towards the passage and the other towards the chamber are frequently found)
Example:
http://www.megalithic.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=a312&file=index&do=showpic&pid=48095
And there are several examples where the erratics used to cover the chamber at the entrance have a significant flat surface.
3 Examples:
http://www.megalithic.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=a312&file=index&do=showpic&pid=74541
http://www.megalithic.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=a312&file=index&do=showpic&pid=81320
http://www.megalithic.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=a312&file=index&do=showpic&pid=75870
[ This message was edited by: Martin_L on 2011-11-02 16:34 ]
|
TheCaptain
Joined:
30-10-2003
Messages: 1490
from near Bristol
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2011-11-02 08:57
[quote]
On 2011-11-01 20:43, Runemage wrote:
What a fabulous concentration of unusual stones. This one's my favourite http://breizhistic.free.fr/SaintJust/drole_pierre.jpg
Yes, the whole area near St Just is rather special. I must try and get there again on a nice sunny day, rather than the drizzly grey afternoon I rushed around the site. But its a bit too far for a day trip from my sisters, and a detour from the St Malo Ferry to be able to spend enough time there. But one day I'll be back.
http://www.megalithic.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=a312&file=index&do=showpic&pid=17745
| |
|
Main News