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Pictures from the Past: Art and Symbols of the Neolithic and Bronze Age |
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tiompan
Joined:
09-01-2005
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|  New Message Posted!2011-09-14 08:55
Quote:
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On 2011-09-14 02:15, chimera wrote:
There are no known rituals of any cycle / event apart from supposition on sun-chambers. By comparison, no rituals are recorded on any church stonework, are there? Egypt did it but they were show-offs. In Europe, the rock symbols speak volumes as they say, as no humans are carved in Neolithic sacred sites. If the 19 years is intended at Knowth, then that fact would indicate something major.
[ This message was edited by: chimera on 2011-09-14 02:18 ]
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The major standstill period is quite a common suggestion for some orientations e.g. the Recumbent stone circles but nothing is ver suggested for the Metonic cycle. That one example at Knowth of hundreds in the boyne is clearly contentious ,see above .
George
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chimera
Joined:
09-09-2006
Messages: 1508
from Australia
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| New Message Posted!2011-09-14 02:15
There are no known rituals of any cycle / event apart from supposition on sun-chambers. By comparison, no rituals are recorded on any church stonework, are there? Egypt did it but they were show-offs. In Europe, the rock symbols speak volumes as they say, as no humans are carved in Neolithic sacred sites. If the 19 years is intended at Knowth, then that fact would indicate something major.
[ This message was edited by: chimera on 2011-09-14 02:18 ]
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tiompan
Joined:
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Messages: 2658
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| New Message Posted!2011-09-14 00:30
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On 2011-09-14 00:12, chimera wrote:
George,
We are considering 4000 BP, not today. The article is not really the point, as to accuracy or whether it commented on ritual. The thing is, would 5 deg matter to the ancients if that was as good as things got? Can we reason that rituals could be built around a "near-enough" moon 19 yr cycle?
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There is no reason to believe that any rituals were centered on the Metonic cycle . I can't think of one archaeastronomical suggestion for it ,maybe knowledge of but nothing to mark it . The major standstill period which averages out at 18 .6 years ,which is quite different has plenty of possible orientations .
But if there were such a ritual/orientation 5 degrees (sometimes more ) is a big miss , I doubt they would even bother but if they did , certainly no cigar .
George
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chimera
Joined:
09-09-2006
Messages: 1508
from Australia
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| New Message Posted!2011-09-14 00:12
George,
We are considering 4000 BP, not today. The article is not really the point, as to accuracy or whether it commented on ritual. The thing is, would 5 deg matter to the ancients if that was as good as things got? Can we reason that rituals could be built around a "near-enough" moon 19 yr cycle?
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tiompan
Joined:
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Messages: 2658
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| New Message Posted!2011-09-13 23:17
Quote:
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On 2011-09-13 16:32, tiompan wrote:
[quote]
On 2011-09-13 16:15, chimera wrote:
Neil,
Well and good, but the questions remain. IF the metonic cycle was in the rituals and the moon was 5 degrees variable as to position, then that was the deal. Who says it's unconscionable to be 5 deg out, and how do you prove where it was 19 years ago with no recording method, clocks or precision instruments in 4000BP?
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The web page was wrong about the Metonic cycle by suggesting that the moon returned to the same place in the sky in relation to the background stars , it does however return to the same phase . I don't think they suggested in was connected with any rituals . On another page it is suggested that the Knowth K 52 markings represented knowledge of the Metonic cycle but that is another story with as many problems .
George
[/quote]
sorry Chimera ,I jumped in here before Neil got a chance , hope he sees it .
George
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tiompan
Joined:
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Messages: 2658
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| New Message Posted!2011-09-13 16:32
Quote:
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On 2011-09-13 16:15, chimera wrote:
Neil,
Well and good, but the questions remain. IF the metonic cycle was in the rituals and the moon was 5 degrees variable as to position, then that was the deal. Who says it's unconscionable to be 5 deg out, and how do you prove where it was 19 years ago with no recording method, clocks or precision instruments in 4000BP?
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The web page was wrong about the Metonic cycle by suggesting that the moon returned to the same place in the sky in relation to the background stars , it does however return to the same phase . I don't think they suggested in was connected with any rituals . On another page it is suggested that the Knowth K 52 markings represented knowledge of the Metonic cycle but that is another story with as many problems .
George
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chimera
Joined:
09-09-2006
Messages: 1508
from Australia
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| New Message Posted!2011-09-13 16:15
Neil,
Well and good, but the questions remain. IF the metonic cycle was in the rituals and the moon was 5 degrees variable as to position, then that was the deal. Who says it's unconscionable to be 5 deg out, and how do you prove where it was 19 years ago with no recording method, clocks or precision instruments in 4000BP?
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Feanor
Joined:
11-05-2011
Messages: 316
from Cape Cod Massachusetts, US
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| New Message Posted!2011-09-13 01:47
Quote:
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On 2011-09-07 23:36, chimera wrote:
How do you know that 5 degrees error was a hanging offence? How would the accusation be proved?
Again, you imply that lunar variations were variable from today's. Why is that?
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_____
Sorry to intrude on this fascinating subject, but reading through the comments I felt I must make mention of something that I actually DO know about. (lol!)
1. The Moon's various Cycles are virtually identical today as they were in Ancient Times. Something on the order of +/- 250-K years for any appreciable differences to occur. (If memory serves)
2. A 5-degree error in any Astronomical Calculation - particularly one where siting or setting an earth-object is involved, or in the prediction of future alignment - would be unconscionable.
Calculating the Synods of the Moon, as relating to where they will occur either in future or has occurred in the past, must be done with infinitesimal precision and 5-degrees is way outside this tolerance.
In the Big Dipper, the 2 stars at the head of the ewer-part - these are almost precisely 5-degrees apart.
3. So then, any Priest(ess) who would make such an error in any calculation could be expected to be digging in the chalk with a broken antler pick the next day.
Neil
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GarryDenke
Joined:
01-06-2004
Messages: 195
from Plano, Texas, USA
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| New Message Posted!2011-09-10 13:12
Heelstone Bear-Dog Stonehenge
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=simple&format=Long&q1=Bear
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=simple&format=Long&q1=Dog
"NYT - Denke, what about this: You delete 1980s BBS posts of FidoNet's Heelstone Hound, your 1990s DejaNews Heelstone Bear-Dog posts, and Daniel the Prophet's 1990s Heelstone Bear-Dog (other BBS posts). And we'll coax Google to delete your 1990s DejaNews Heelstone big Bear posts, and 2000s Usenet posts of Heelstone Daniel's Bear (with Weller, etc), also Sister Amelia's 2000s Heelstone Bear-Dog posts, and County Deed Records too. So what do you think? An even 50 / 50 split for a good Price? (US the Bear / UK the Dog). That's a fair Offering, yes? - BBC"
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/22/justice-and-the-stonehenge-vandals
http://www.bbc.co.uk/wiltshire/stoned/stonehenge_uses.shtml
Cwn Annwn / Cwn Annan
Daniel's Lion-Cat, Daniel's Bear-Dog,
Daniel's Leopard-Cat, and Daniel's
Seven (7) "Ark of the Covenant"
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/ \
/|oo \
(_| /_)
_`@/_ \ _
| | \ \\
| (*) | \ ))
______ |__U__| / \//
/ FIDO \ _//|| _\ /
(________) (_/(_|(____/
Bow Wow! Go Dentists!
Stone Pages
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jonm
Joined:
12-07-2011
Messages: 819
from UK
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| New Message Posted!2011-09-09 09:12
I disagree, engineers today would have difficulty replicating many ancient structures' functions.
If the function is known, replication today should be easier than the original of past.
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