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rogeralbin
Joined:
08-10-2010
Messages: 190
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|  New Message Posted!2011-08-13 07:55
Returning to the original thread, most occaisions when Venus passes between Earth and the Sun it does not do a visible transit across the face of the Sun rather disappearing in the daylight. It seems to me that when the shift from East to West of Venus occurs shortly after the Spring Equinox the passage mounds aligned on the Equinocial Sun would be in that part of the sky.
A thing that is giving me a bit of confusion in this and other threads is the discussion of things rising above the horizon as most passage mounds I have looked at do not look at the horizon but higher up. By this I mean 30 minutes after the first part of the Sun is visible which is not the same place but further South. Maybe someone could clarify exactly what is meant when X rising is stated, is it where sky meets hill or like the passage mounds fully clear of the hill some time later the two are not the same.
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chimera
Joined:
09-09-2006
Messages: 1508
from Australia
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| New Message Posted!2011-08-11 00:04
I'm not sure I believe either of you, and the sheep walk off shaking their heads.
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sem
Joined:
12-11-2003
Messages: 1708
from Bridgend,S.Wales
 ON-Line
| New Message Posted!2011-08-10 22:34
Toilet roll! What do mean "toilet roll?"
Cerrig is a Welshman and needs no such luxuries when out in the wilds. Down-under you may have dingos and those hopping-things but here in South Wales (NOT the poofy, sanitized, geo-parked New South Wales, the real one) we have sheep. I have witnessed Cerrig face one of these beasts wearing nothing but a colander on his head.
Over 30yrs involvement and research into folk music /legend has convinced me that when Kevin "bloody" Wilson wrote of Nigel the aboriginal tracker he was basing it on Cerrig.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vhf46M7Pno
Cerrig.. expletive...Legend.
Be aware that this link contains VERY strong language.
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chimera
Joined:
09-09-2006
Messages: 1508
from Australia
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| New Message Posted!2011-08-10 22:04
" I would imagine that many readings were taken, and then averaged to get a final count."
Using your toilet roll gave a pulse and breathing rate of 3 star rises/ minute. The pendulum crossbar cannot lie and no averages are needed, when the star is up the stopwatch is locked on 366.
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tiompan
Joined:
09-01-2005
Messages: 2648
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| New Message Posted!2011-08-10 16:38
Thanks Cerrig , I have kept this post here as the info is above .
There is an avenue of paired pits at Thornburgh possibly dated to E.B.A. but it is to the west of the southern henge at is aligned approx 14 /194 degrees . When Sirius is at 4 degrees of altitiude on the winter solstice 3500 it is close to the orienaton to of the northern to southern henges i.e. 143 degrees ,this is not an or the avenue . The actual angle that Sirius will rise on the horizon as seen from the Northen henge over the southern is closer to 134 degrees and the altitide of the horizon is just over 0 .What that means and they obviously have missed this , is that the Hutton Moor henge is quite close to the horizon point that Sirius will be seen to rise . The ymissed a trick there they could ahve argued how all the henges in the area were interlinked in a cosmic mirror of the Orion plus Sirius minus rigel and Betelgeuse .
Why 4 degrees ? it seems like special pleading if the angle they were looking for was a bit more they may as well have said 8 degrees . Basically Sirius does not rise on the horizon as seen from the henges at the same angle as the real avenue or for that matter any alignment between the henges .
George
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cerrig
Joined:
25-09-2009
Messages: 907
from Brecon Beacons
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| New Message Posted!2011-08-10 16:02
As this has turned into a discussion mostly about the book " Before the Pyramids", and as I seem to be in a minority of people who has read it, I am starting another thread in the name of the book. Hopefully this will attract other people who don't normally read these forums, but who have read the book, to join in.
I would also ask that everyone who has already joined in to continue the discussion there.
Cerrig
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cerrig
Joined:
25-09-2009
Messages: 907
from Brecon Beacons
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| New Message Posted!2011-08-10 15:19
Quote:
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On 2011-08-10 10:09, tiompan wrote:
Cerrig the SE alignment is puzzling ,could you clarify what it is please ?
It’s odd that they exclude Nunwick and Hutton Moor , two other henges in the area ,presumably they wouldn’t fit into any astro plan even if approx . Possibilities for the SE alignment can be the centres of the Northern -Central henges or Central- southern ,maybe something else less obvious ..In the first case it is arguable that this alignment leads to Nunwick but not Cana Barn ,this has been known for a very long time and has probably been mentioned here in the past .None of the alignments lead to Cana Barn . From the centre of each of the three henges to Cana Barn the azis are 135.9 ,135.6 and 134.8 . ,a couple of degrees off plus Cana Barn can’t be seen from any of the henges due to the intervening high ground of Rushwood Hall . If you take the Nunwick alignment it doesn’t provide a declination for the winter solstice same goes for any combination of the henges .There seems to be quite a combination of things that don’t work but the actual SE alignment itself is still unknown .
George
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The alignment isn't of an horizon rising, it's when Sirius is at 4deg, as seen over the centre of the avenue between the henges ( I don't really know what this means)
The alignment to Cana Ban isn't one of intervisibility, and the theory is that it is meant to represent Sirius, so it won't be in a direct line with the henges, just as Sirius isn't directly in line with Orions belt, just close.
The inference being that just as Orions belt points(roughly) towards Sirius in the sky, so the henges, which are a copy of the belt on the ground, also point in the direction of Sirius at the winter solstice (3500BC)
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cerrig
Joined:
25-09-2009
Messages: 907
from Brecon Beacons
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| New Message Posted!2011-08-10 14:57
Quote:
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On 2011-08-10 07:27, davidmorgan wrote:
To me this appears to be just mind games, not based on anything real.
I reckon they have neither built one of those pendulums nor observed stars rising over a year.
"The length of the pendulum is 1 meter, with a period of 1 second. "
In fact that would be a period of 2 seconds, they're obviously talking about each swing rather than the "period" (time taken for a complete cycle) (strange that they should be ignorant of that).
I don't know what amazing frictionless material they used for the pendulum, but I guess it would have stopped within about 20 swings - no way would it go on for 6 minutes!
Since you can't observe the rising of a star over the whole duration of a year (half the time it would rise in daylight), there's no way those ancients would have known that "there are 366 star rises in a year".
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Some good points there David. The one about the period was my mistake, not the authors. They used the term beat, not my term of period. The pendulum was regularly jiggled to keep it going, to get over the inertia problem. I would imagine that many readings were taken, and then averaged to get a final count.
The star risings aren't visible every day, but it wouldn't take too long to work out that a particular a star is rising earlier and earlier. Anyone familiar with watching the constellations knows of their tendency to do this. Count the days from when it disappears in the evening to when it reappears in the morning, link this in with the solar calender, and the one day discrepancy will become apparent. It may take a while , probably years, to work it out properly.
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cerrig
Joined:
25-09-2009
Messages: 907
from Brecon Beacons
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| New Message Posted!2011-08-10 14:27
Quote:
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On 2011-08-10 07:52, chimera wrote:
Is a star's movement in 1 second of time visible to the naked eye with no colander?
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I'm glad you asked that Chimera, a sensible question on this thread at last, and one that i'm sure is puzzling many people at the moment .
There is the theory that it may be possible, under the ideal atmospheric conditions, to watch stars and count "at the same time". Obviously, some bodgeing of the well proven colander method is necessary. The one most likely to succeed is the Minogue/VonTemplar choreographe. I'm sure you are familiar with this, but just to reiterate: Roll up your left trouser leg to the knee; pull down your cardigan to expose a shoulder(either one) put your right hand in your back left pocket; with your left hand, hold an old toilet roll centre of Kylie's up to your right eye( I get mine off ebay ), and squint through it while crossing your eyes. You may need to do this while standing on your head.
As the correct posture is critical, if you could video yourself doing this, and post it on u-tube, I could critique it properly.
ps; sandals and bobble hats have been proven to be statistically unnessesary, but they add a certain "something" I find.
Good luck, and please let us know how you get on 
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chimera
Joined:
09-09-2006
Messages: 1508
from Australia
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| New Message Posted!2011-08-10 12:24
aha but if they had 2 pendulii /pendulae/pendulen then they switch as the first stops and gets restarted.
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