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Forum:  Sacred Sites and Megalithic Mysteries
Moderated by : davidmorgan , TimPrevett , Andy B , Klingon , MickM , bat400 , sem , Runemage , TheCaptain Respond to:  Working Reconstructed Stone Circles
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tDrusin



Joined:
21-01-2012


Messages: 156
from charleston, sc usa

OFF-Line

 New Message Posted!2012-03-22 16:05   
Good points about leaving them well enough alone. I am in agreement about leaving them be till proper research is done. Perhaps these can be the 'sacrificial' sites to raise funds and awareness through tourism and the money can go to future research. I don't think some of the officials in Pakistan adhere to strict rules about these sorts of things. Political stability and a strong economy in the region would help immensely. Thanks all for suggestions, this guy is super nice and I would love to help out any way I can.

LittleEnki



Joined:
22-01-2012


Messages: 202
from Largo,FL

OFF-Line

 New Message Posted!2012-03-22 04:05   
True and good point on leaving it alone. The words In Situ were used for a reason, as thats where the most information will be able to be gleaned.
If he reassembles the structures, it might be a nice visit for tourists, but the energy, and purpose of the site will be altered to the point it wont be of any value to future studies.
The way the stones are found alone will tell more of a story than any rebuilding, and maybe the site should be exavted and cleaned up without any molestation of existing placements.
Then when the initial investigation is complete, maybe reassemble part of the site, to show what a section would have looked like.
I wonder if it qualifies as a world heritage site, that would get the moola flowing in a heartbeat!
Just a thought, and a great thread this has been!
Cheers!
Littleenki

Quote:

On 2012-03-21 17:44, jonm wrote:
Quote:
I also asked about a proper dig before re erecting begins, sadly he told me there wasn't funding for this. He discovered them and has been tasked with putting them back. I had suggested using methods available at the time to add an air of authenticity.



The danger, with not doing an archaeological dig of the site prior to re-erection, is that more harm than good will be done. It may not matter if the stones are insignificant but by putting the stones back, he may destroy all trace of how the stones were originally set up.

Just a thought. Don't want to put a damper on the exercise.





tDrusin



Joined:
21-01-2012


Messages: 156
from charleston, sc usa

OFF-Line

 New Message Posted!2012-03-21 22:13   
I'm wondering if he might benefit from the 'Kick Start' online fundraising program. I know gamers support new games this way. I think one needs to be in the US to use it. Does anyone know of another similar international online effort?

frogcottage42



Joined:
14-02-2010


Messages: 235
from tuosist

OFF-Line

 New Message Posted!2012-03-21 20:48   
Teresa, I understand that funding can be hard to get for excavation but any amateur with the patience can do this well enough to be beneficial.
If the site is rearranged without the proper investigation it will be of little more value than a modern reconstruction.
There are usually enthusiastic students willing to help and local universities are always worth a call.
At the very least a complete photo journal of any alteration is essential.

jonm



Joined:
12-07-2011


Messages: 815
from UK

OFF-Line

 New Message Posted!2012-03-21 17:44   
Quote:
I also asked about a proper dig before re erecting begins, sadly he told me there wasn't funding for this. He discovered them and has been tasked with putting them back. I had suggested using methods available at the time to add an air of authenticity.



The danger, with not doing an archaeological dig of the site prior to re-erection, is that more harm than good will be done. It may not matter if the stones are insignificant but by putting the stones back, he may destroy all trace of how the stones were originally set up.

Just a thought. Don't want to put a damper on the exercise.

tDrusin



Joined:
21-01-2012


Messages: 156
from charleston, sc usa

OFF-Line

 New Message Posted!2012-03-21 15:29   
Thank you so very much, I will copy and forward you ideas to him. I also asked about a proper dig before re erecting begins, sadly he told me there wasn't funding for this. He discovered them and has been tasked with putting them back. I had suggested using methods available at the time to add an air of authenticity.

Quote:

On 2012-03-21 14:43, frogcottage42 wrote:
Hi Teresa, with regard to moving stones;

The actual process of moving the stones back into place is very straightforward and requires nothing more than brute force and the application of some simple levers, fulcrums and pulleys and ropes. ( these days mechanical excavators tend to provide the grunt required)
It is the preparation of the sockets that is critical.
Before any attempt is made to replace a stone where it is believed to have been a proper archaeological excavation of the site needs to be conducted, proper recording of the current state of the monument and all stages of excavation. The methods for these digs are clearly outlined by the agencies responsible in most parts of the world but if not any archaeological society or museum will help.
Once this has been done a full plan of reconstruction must be created and strictly adhered to. This is very important because in the future any reconstruction may be questioned in the light of better understanding and reorganised appropriately.
Any stones having other stones placed on top must be thoroughly explored to ensure correct position and stability.
Once all that is done any stones replaced must be packed with suitable material which should be noted at excavation.

Saying all this I do not know what the official view of these things is in Pakistan but here in Europe very few sites will ever get permission for reconstruction.
Sites like Newgrange have been so badly molested by these processes that the general view is to leave well alone, every part of these monuments can tell a story, even their destruction.
Once tidied up future archaeological investigation will be pointless so great justification is required.

If your friend needs specific advice on moving stones then please feel free to contact me by private message and I will do what I can.

Quote:

On 2012-03-21 03:43, tDrusin wrote:
I have an acquaintance in Pakistan who is in charge or re erecting six megalithic sites he discovered. He reached out to me for advice and suggestions, unfortunately I felt unable to help. I remember reading about someone here who moved stones regularly. Perhaps if you get a moment you could offer some technical insights. I'll copy and paste replies to him or you can find him on my facebook page. His name is Zulfiqar Ali Kalhoro. You can find him in my friends list. My real name is Teresa Drusin. Thanks I think this guy is underfunded for the magnitude of his project, and would surely appreciate a helping hand.









frogcottage42



Joined:
14-02-2010


Messages: 235
from tuosist

OFF-Line

 New Message Posted!2012-03-21 14:43   
Hi Teresa, with regard to moving stones;

The actual process of moving the stones back into place is very straightforward and requires nothing more than brute force and the application of some simple levers, fulcrums and pulleys and ropes. ( these days mechanical excavators tend to provide the grunt required)
It is the preparation of the sockets that is critical.
Before any attempt is made to replace a stone where it is believed to have been a proper archaeological excavation of the site needs to be conducted, proper recording of the current state of the monument and all stages of excavation. The methods for these digs are clearly outlined by the agencies responsible in most parts of the world but if not any archaeological society or museum will help.
Once this has been done a full plan of reconstruction must be created and strictly adhered to. This is very important because in the future any reconstruction may be questioned in the light of better understanding and reorganised appropriately.
Any stones having other stones placed on top must be thoroughly explored to ensure correct position and stability.
Once all that is done any stones replaced must be packed with suitable material which should be noted at excavation.

Saying all this I do not know what the official view of these things is in Pakistan but here in Europe very few sites will ever get permission for reconstruction.
Sites like Newgrange have been so badly molested by these processes that the general view is to leave well alone, every part of these monuments can tell a story, even their destruction.
Once tidied up future archaeological investigation will be pointless so great justification is required.

If your friend needs specific advice on moving stones then please feel free to contact me by private message and I will do what I can.

Quote:

On 2012-03-21 03:43, tDrusin wrote:
I have an acquaintance in Pakistan who is in charge or re erecting six megalithic sites he discovered. He reached out to me for advice and suggestions, unfortunately I felt unable to help. I remember reading about someone here who moved stones regularly. Perhaps if you get a moment you could offer some technical insights. I'll copy and paste replies to him or you can find him on my facebook page. His name is Zulfiqar Ali Kalhoro. You can find him in my friends list. My real name is Teresa Drusin. Thanks I think this guy is underfunded for the magnitude of his project, and would surely appreciate a helping hand.





tDrusin



Joined:
21-01-2012


Messages: 156
from charleston, sc usa

OFF-Line

 New Message Posted!2012-03-21 03:43   
I have an acquaintance in Pakistan who is in charge or re erecting six megalithic sites he discovered. He reached out to me for advice and suggestions, unfortunately I felt unable to help. I remember reading about someone here who moved stones regularly. Perhaps if you get a moment you could offer some technical insights. I'll copy and paste replies to him or you can find him on my facebook page. His name is Zulfiqar Ali Kalhoro. You can find him in my friends list. My real name is Teresa Drusin. Thanks I think this guy is underfunded for the magnitude of his project, and would surely appreciate a helping hand.

jonm



Joined:
12-07-2011


Messages: 815
from UK

OFF-Line

 New Message Posted!2012-03-20 16:30   
Hi Rune

That explains it! I was surprised he didn't come back.

Jon

Runemage



Joined:
15-07-2005


Messages: 2412
from UK

OFF-Line

 New Message Posted!2012-03-20 16:10   
Hi Jon,

The situation's not changed.

Rune

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