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Watchers of the Dawn DVD and ebook |
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cerrig
Joined:
25-09-2009
Messages: 918
from Brecon Beacons
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|  New Message Posted!2009-10-23 03:28
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On 2009-10-13 23:39, davidmorgan wrote:
I'm of the opinion that prehistoric man's measurements were relative rather than absolute. The idea that he had a yard or metre implies that he had mathematics, which I seriously doubt because there would be a lot more evidence of such. Any numerological associations are entirely spurious. If an example of just one is shown, then all of their products should display such mathematics.
E.g. where is a 365 day year represented anywhere in quantity of things?
By the way, that Pythagorean right angled triangle on the astro-archaeology site is a sad joke. I'd be laughing if it wasn't for the fact that some people actually believe such nonsense.
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you can find the length of the year tied in with the length of the foot. 1 degree of the earths circumference at the equator is equal to 1 foot times 365,242.
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vlad
Joined:
13-05-2006
Messages: 1311
from Stockholm
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| New Message Posted!2009-10-19 18:54
Thank you, sem. I really appreciate your sharing with cherished books and places.
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sem
Joined:
12-11-2003
Messages: 1722
from Bridgend,S.Wales
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| New Message Posted!2009-10-19 18:05
Hi Vlad
You could do worse than Alfred Watkins' The Old Straight Track for the area around Hereford.
Doesn't cover that much about astronomy, but as a walking guide it's fascinating.
For the Brecon Beacons, my favourite is Brian S Griffiths' The Sacred and Secret Beacons. Good for history, legend, archaeology and geology. I bought all 130 pages of this years ago and still refer to it.
Good hunting
Sem
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vlad
Joined:
13-05-2006
Messages: 1311
from Stockholm
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| New Message Posted!2009-10-19 17:56
Now I know. It should be the book with the Tolkien`s "Farmer Giles from Ham" - feeling, built around with all those pieces of knowledge I`ve mentioned.
[ This message was edited by: vlad on 2009-10-19 18:48 ]
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tiompan
Joined:
09-01-2005
Messages: 2707
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2009-10-19 17:51
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On 2009-10-19 17:27, vlad wrote:
I have "Skywatchers, Shamans and Kings" by Edwin C. Krupp. It`s just a coffee-table book, as for its program. What do you think about "The Avebury Cycle" by Michael Dames!? Some reconstructions of location intentions contained therein are perhaps far-fetched.
What I fancy would be a book covering a small homeland, wherein all aspects were covered: - meteorology, geology, prehistory with its monuments and outline of ethnic migrations, first written documents, continuation of old ways within the local Church an folk narratives. I mean an ultimate compendium of all old things - a companion, which makes your eyes wide open, when walking a territory.
Outside a narrow circle of locals, people seem do not value such type of books nowadays. But times are a-changing and a cultural tourism is in its wake. Could you recommend a good example of such a book!?
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There's no nonsense from Krupp though . I thought the Dames stuff laughable full of inaccuracies and wild conjecture .
Maybe a collection of books would do the trick for your wish list , after all who is going to be expert in all the disciplines ?.It would have to be a collaborative effort it's not even easy getting in depth geology works for smaller areas , it usually takes up a couple of pages , although good quality geology maps , if you can get them , can be useful .
George
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vlad
Joined:
13-05-2006
Messages: 1311
from Stockholm
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2009-10-19 17:27
I have "Skywatchers, Shamans and Kings" by Edwin C. Krupp. It`s just a coffee-table book, as for its program. What do you think about "The Avebury Cycle" by Michael Dames!? Some reconstructions of location intentions contained therein are perhaps far-fetched.
What I fancy would be a book covering a small homeland, wherein all aspects were covered: - meteorology, geology, prehistory with its monuments and outline of ethnic migrations, first written documents, continuation of old ways within the local Church and folk narratives. I mean an ultimate compendium of all old things - a companion, which keeps your eyes wide open, when walking a territory.
Outside a narrow circle of locals, people seem do not value such type of books nowadays. But times are a-changing and a (pre)historical tourism on a local level should rise in a post-global world. Could you recommend a good example of such a book covering a small self-sustaining territory in England, Scotland or maybe Ireland!?
[ This message was edited by: vlad on 2009-10-19 17:45 ]
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tiompan
Joined:
09-01-2005
Messages: 2707
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2009-10-19 16:23
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On 2009-10-19 15:37, vlad wrote:
That`s it. A prehistoric observatory is anchored in the landscape through those markings. To say "move aside Stonehenge a km or 10 kms" was just the way to set your imagination in movement. What I`ve really meant was the original act of choosing a location for a future observatory where it is now or 10 kms away.
Now; much later some legends connect the surface of the Earth to the Sky in many ways. Well; a milk-spray from Hera`s breast created the stars of the Milky Way. And then, from the stars, supervised by genii, seeds of plants (and other living beings) were coming. (Greek, Cretan, Persian, Slavonic lore)
Are you trying to say that the megalithians treated stars and planets just in the same way as we are!? It`s barely probable. I bet they had their mythical lore, which could contain "aitions" for choosing specific locations. So; a henge XYZ could have been imo both the temple of a Hera-like goddess and an astronomic observatory.
They perhaps were located in a way, which corresponded to animistic notions of life-energy streams flowing down from the stars and then radially around to all the farmsteads in a territory!? The latter part is known from the lore of the holy mountains. (Btw a "mountain" or a god-head can exist in a flat terrain) Why not trying to coordinate one with another!?
Could you recommend any interdisciplinary studies of that kind!? Are e.g. Ronald Hutton books helpful on that topic!?
[ This message was edited by: vlad on 2009-10-19 15:43 ]
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The original post commented on dodgy arcaheoastronomy books , there are plenty of these ,agreed but the discipline only points out that certain moumnets are aligned on specific events in the ,usually , solar /lunar cycles . We can only guess at the intention of the builders .In the case of passage graves allowing in light at solstices or equinoxes the likelihood of intention is greater than a standing stone and a prominent feature which has little to show in the way of intention . The results , when the measurements are done properly , are unequivocal but they are then open to interpreation .e.g. two standing stones may point to a point on the horizon where the winter solstice sun will set , we can prove that is so but we can only guess at whether it was intended by the builders it could ahve many other explanations . Whether archeoastronomy was of primary importance to the siting of monuments is difficult to say one way or the other , I doubt it was primary others would disagree . There is no reason to assume they were observatories , to make the alignmnet would require observation but after construction it seems an unlikely pursuit . I think it's more likely that some association with the light/energy of the orientation itself was important rather than observation . I don't think Ronald Hutton covers much . The best books tend to be purely arcaheoastro and not much else ,the interdisciplinary ,usually minus the discipline , are the dodgy ones .The best I can suggest is Ruggles' "Astronomy in Prehistoric Briatin and Ireland " for pure astro stuff . John North's "Stonehenge ,Neolithic man and the Cosmos " which is broader in scope . "Echoes of the Ancient Skies:" by Edwin C Krupp is probably more suitable in that it covers various cultural approaches to the subject .
George
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vlad
Joined:
13-05-2006
Messages: 1311
from Stockholm
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2009-10-19 15:37
That`s it. A prehistoric observatory is anchored in the landscape through those markings. To say "move aside Stonehenge a km or 10 kms" was just the way to set your imagination in movement. What I`ve really meant was the original act of choosing a location for a future observatory where it is now or 10 kms away.
Now; much later some legends connect the surface of the Earth to the Sky in many ways. Well; a milk-spray from Hera`s breast created the stars of the Milky Way. And then, from the stars, supervised by genii, seeds of plants (and other living beings) were coming. (Greek, Cretan, Persian, Slavonic lore)
Are you trying to say that the megalithians treated stars and planets just in the same way as we are!? It`s barely probable. I bet they had their mythical lore, which could contain "aitions" for choosing specific locations. So; a henge XYZ could have been imo both the temple of a Hera-like goddess and an astronomic observatory.
They perhaps were located in a way, which corresponded to animistic notions of life-energy streams flowing down from the stars and then radially around to all the farmsteads in a territory!? The latter part is known from the lore of the holy mountains. (Btw a "mountain" or a god-head can exist in a flat terrain) Why not trying to coordinate one with another!?
Could you recommend any interdisciplinary studies of that kind!? Are e.g. Ronald Hutton books helpful on that topic!?
[ This message was edited by: vlad on 2009-10-19 15:43 ]
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tiompan
Joined:
09-01-2005
Messages: 2707
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2009-10-19 14:58
Quote:
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On 2009-10-17 08:17, vlad wrote:
"Why there and not elsewhere" on the SURFACE of the Earth!? In my opinion, this is the basic question we should ask, when looking at Stonehenge, Avebury - on one side, and small provincial stone rings on the other. Suppose, we move Stonehenge in its entirety 1 km away. - Do you mean that it would matter as for results of archaeo-astronomy!? Surely not. The sky and the stars are the same one or ten kms away!!
[ This message was edited by: vlad on 2009-10-17 16:39 ]
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This is the real world your'e talking about now , moving one or both of two pointers a couple of metres will change the point on the horizon that is indicated . Watch the sun and moon they are dynamic, they can be seen to move in minutes , they also have cycles . This is not a mystery we have understood this , well some of us , for millenia .
George
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holger_rix
Joined:
25-06-2007
Messages: 303
from Hamburg, Germany
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2009-10-19 14:38
Quote:
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On 2009-10-17 08:17, vlad wrote:
...those are ersatz-mysteries
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to me, one of the worst examples is the Nebra Sky Disc.
the most archaeo-astronomy nonsense can be found on
strange pseudoarchaeology internet sites,
but the sky disc got a Disneyworld like presentation there
in Sachsen-Anhalt, and busloads full of children go there
to get that far fetched s*** showen down the throat.
it's official.
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