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Stone Lord: The Legend Of King Arthur, The Era Of Stonehenge by J P Reedman |
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| The Henge Monuments of the British Isles: Myth and Archaeology |
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vlad
Joined:
13-05-2006
Messages: 1287
from Stockholm
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|  New Message Posted!2009-03-15 07:05
Well; we are always dealing with some kind of palimpsests. King Arthur in his role as a WARDEN of the Nature`s Order was probably a construction of Alienor d`Acquitaine propagandists. Her husband - Henry II Plantagenet was hyped into a new incarnation of King Arthur - in this elitary circle, and that was the beginning of many literary versions. Historians may try to pinpoint King Arthur as a historical warlord. For a folklorist, he was a new version of the Giant Arthur, who could unite with his enterprises not only one county but all the counties and shires of England into one wholeness.
Those devils or jättar throwing stones at churches give us a clue what`s going on there, at the basic psychoenergetic level of a landscape, which is the PLACENTA of any folklore. Most churches were built in places of "sacred marriage" of male and female psychoenergies. Their progeny are "orbs" (hosts) given out to the worshippers. Peasants used to take them in their mouths home to share it with farm animals, admixing the holy bread to the fodder.
Now, there`s this stone outside a church. It`s imo the rest of a larger layout, which comprised also a Giant, originally responsible for distribution of life-energy orbs down the line IN NATURE. Throwing stones they are appealing to attention of people, who converted to the worship of Christ, the All-World Giant. Unhappily, with this move Christians forgot they are part of their closest environment. Natural female sacred places now can be conveniently used to dump garbage into. Or why not using the Hill of Allen, center of fertile psychoenergy of the whole Ireland - home of Fionn the Giant, to manufacture gravel used to build motorways crossing Tara.
OK; chyknel. I`m not an adherent of paganism. As I`ve pointed above, acceptance of Christ the All-Giant was a logic consequence of steady development of a "natural religion", in post-megalithic areas and wider around. There`s NO WAY BACK to the worship of village giants but why sending them into complete oblivion. They are telling interesting things about that childhood of our minds, under which they were parts of a larger Mind.
In my view, not only megalith sites but also peculiar legendary places in Nature - memorials to this childhood, should be preserved as local retreats serving self-scrutiny and psychic renewal. Yes; it sounds "hollow". Then; why not starting to prepare a commonly accepted answer to someone`s simple unavoidable question - how come!?
[ This message was edited by: vlad on 2009-03-15 11:21 ]
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Chyknel2
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| New Message Posted!2009-03-15 03:29
Vlad,
I was going to respond in detail about the benefits of a dedicated area for discussing folklore but it occurs to me it can't be done without a consensus upon what folklore is. If it is discussed as "ancient voices trying to make sense of the world" then great, what could be more interesting or profitable for megalithomaniacs? But if each piece of folklore is siezed upon as evidence of a PARTICULAR world view then it won't be much fun.
Yes Kev, I mean you. Your intervention on giants throwing stones illustrates the point. Clearly, stone-throwing by giants pre-dates churches and the cases where they threw them at churches is no doubt a bit of deliberate or inadvertent hijacking of a pre-existing story. But it is not THE story, merely a thread. Why steer us along a single thread? Well, because it enables you to discuss YOUR particular world view - which in this instance involves slagging off the churches at every opportunity. It's a bit like discussing natural history with a creationist hovering, waiting to jump in to show evidence for Noah's Ark. No chance of coming up with the theory of evolution in a discussion like that is there?
BTW, on the subject of your excessive anti-clericalism, it seems clear to me where it comes from. The churches talk of a lost age of innocence and the Fall of Man. You talk of a lost Age of Knowledge.
And in each case there was suspicion of reptilian involvement, and a persecuted prophet and an impending End of the World. The church's adherents are a flock. Your listeners are sheep. I think you should stop being so hard on them. You are in the same business as them.
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cropredy
Joined:
01-01-2006
Messages: 5525
from Oxon
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| New Message Posted!2009-03-14 19:50
Vlad,
Just passing through this galaxy when I noticed You talking about giants throwing stones at churchs.
Thats the wrong way around, the churchs were later than the stones.
The stones remaining will be precisely centre of opposite spiral centre point, the churchs are laid out to four such points that are exterior to the churchs construction, the circles are squared to conform to the available geometry of at least four such points.
I think in this country they talk of the devil throwing the stones at churchs, and missing, I further think that is placed in the minds of sheep to convert them to the rule of the churchs, do you consider that the churchs are the domain of god?, or perhaps they are actually the domain of the opposite?
I listen to the stones, they represent what is natural, the churchs distort the natural, I therefore do not take any notice of the pompus organised religions that say god is on their side, but it depends what that god is?
kevin
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mikecroley
Joined:
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| New Message Posted!2009-03-14 19:45
Quote:
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On 2009-03-14 10:11, vlad wrote:
............... and dimensions we are not able to explore -............
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vlad
Joined:
13-05-2006
Messages: 1287
from Stockholm
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| New Message Posted!2009-03-14 16:41
When classifying folklore tales, you need just a simple ramification. Broad male (yang) paths are coming out of a local "Mt. Olympos" and are attacking female (yin) nodes, producing a stream of orbs (lower-tao energy). In Greek mythology it was personified with Zeus making love on Demeter to produce Dionysos. Titans (Giants) were then throwing pieces of Dionysos - absorbed in stones, around, as spiritual seeds of new life.
Ancient allegory of Zeus "raping" a nymph (secondary yin-node) was abused by Christian writers to discredit panhellenic religion. But through Orphics, a "vegetarian" variety of Dionysian ideas came into Christianity, as if backdoors. Well; the whole yin-kingdom, with Her Children (giants, etc.) was banned but it`s another story.
It`s good that there are so many COETAN ARTHUR as sheep, chyknel. Well; actually, some of them are probably dealing with his births, other with his initiations, marriages, or some feats. "Arthur uniting England" - or Wales, could be a title to a map, featuring all of them. "Stone - Mind" of Aluta sums up to Makroanthropos - the Giant Arthur.
[ This message was edited by: vlad on 2009-03-14 18:20 ]
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vlad
Joined:
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Messages: 1287
from Stockholm
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| New Message Posted!2009-03-14 15:53
Who or which made them to put the stones there!? Well; assuming there`s the Mind and there are some local fields belonging to It, marked with stones, - Artil or Arthur makes small difference. What counts it`s a kind of activity ascribed to a stone or a place. You can take all short notices pertaining to "throwing stones", put them together into a map as vectors and ponder what a sense comes out of it. I agree, it could be an area of a forgotten small kingdom or a tribal realm marked with them.
But here`s another point of view. Scandinavian jättar (giants) are known to throw stones towards churches. There are many stones of that kind around here. Strange is that the stones land always short of the target, just to mark the difference!? Deukalion and Pyrrha throwing male and female stones around, after the Flood - that`s another example. As their Flood did not cover Peloponnese, it seems they were planting First Beings into small homelands of Thessaly and around Mt. Parnassos, in Central Greece, only.
The latter example gives us the clue as for central doubled stones in stone rings and over some cairns. It`s about male and female life- energy, while "throwing stones" - about spreading their "progeny" - lower-tao energy. All this is taking place within the Mind and - according to world-wide traditional beliefs, has the meaning of preparations before a new vegetation season.
Now; even if someone registered meaningful changes of EM aura in a peculiar place, it could be not used as an explanation to the old allegoric knowledge. We should keep those different descriptions strictly separated. What makes sense is a MULTILAYERED description of "reality", where those layers interact but not coalesce. Thus; the two layers in this Forum should be imo enriched with a third, at least, dealing with legends around megaliths.
And you`ve made a good beginning, chyknel. Chapeau bas.
[ This message was edited by: vlad on 2009-03-14 16:01 ]
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Chyknel2
Joined:
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| New Message Posted!2009-03-14 14:34
Great choice, Maen Cetti. I'd love to go there but it's a bit of a slog.
James Fergusson, 'Rude Stone Monuments in all Countries - their age and uses', 1872 says -
I think all antiquarians will agree with Sir Gardner Wilkinson in assuming that this is the stone of Cetti mentioned in the Welsh Triads... the 88th* Triad speaks of the three mightly achievements of the Isle of Britain; the raising of the stone of Cetti, the building of the work of Emmrys [Stonehenge, he says] and the heaping of the pile of Cyvragnon [Silbury].
There are more Arthurs Stones in Wales than sheep, so if it's legends you want, that's the place. Although, I think Arthur's legends aren't attractive, and often not true. Some might have been made up by politicians. I prefer the ones that just might have been spoken by Neolithic mouths. They reverberate better.
I have got myself to one on the Welsh borders http://www.whitedragon.org.uk/gazette/gazhere.htm
and tried to communicate with him. But when i got home I found that in 1728 it was called Artil's Stone. See?! Never trust Arthurian legend. Only the really old folklore is true.
So both the magnetometer and folklore are good tools, but it depends where you are. There, the main folklore was modern lies and science offered more fun - e.g. there is some ancient concrete within it, flecked with coal. Who put that there? The Romans maybe, or could concrete pre-date them? Call the archaeologist, not the folklorist. The Rollrights, on the other hand.... best there to listen to the old stories, the echoing voices....
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vlad
Joined:
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Messages: 1287
from Stockholm
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| New Message Posted!2009-03-14 13:34
You`ve reached deeper with your spoon into the barrel of ambrosia chyknel; and it`s quite tasty, isn`t it!? Well; I`m not of that lofty kind. When discussing at the megalith mystery section, one could assume it would be about some megaliths. Here`s an example of one from The "Traveller`s Guide to Arthurian Britain" by Geoffrey Ashe (p. 50):
"Arthur`s Stone
1) near Reynoldston (West Glamorgan) SS 490905
Outside Reynoldston on the road to Swansea is the ridge of Cefn Bryn Common. It is one of the highest parts of the Gower peninsula and centrally placed. Well up on the northern side is a megalithic burial-chamber known as Maen Cetti... The stone uprights are small and squat. Four of them support a gigantic wedge-shaped capstone weighing about 25 TONS... In any case, this capstone is Arthur`s Stone. Legend has it that when Arthur was walking through Carmarthenshire on his way to Camlann (Camelot), he felt a PEBBLE in his shoe and tossed it away. It flew seven miles and landed on top of Maen Cetti stones."
Now, most people would yawn and put the book back into shelves.
But not explorers active at this Megalithic Forum. So as an explorer, you`ve got such options to choose from, chyknel:
- Repeat the exploit of the Giant Arthur. But wherefrom such large shoes could have been obtained!?
- Go around with a magnetometer to write out a nice neat map
showing a "trace" of Arthur`s throw,
- Begin first to study comparative mythology.
The good thing is that on neither of those paths you could meet Kevin, who has perhaps flown out to visit some acquaintances in the Andromeda galaxy, which have been not born, yet.
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Chyknel2
Joined:
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| New Message Posted!2009-03-14 12:52
True. Peculiar places and the far reaches of the universe are equally far away and equally unknowable with any degree of certainty.
Perhaps this is where the scientist and the nonscientist are equal. One looks and deduces, the other feels and deduces yet neither can avoid filtering what he sees or feels through Self, which inevitably corrupts the purity of truth. The answers only exist if there is someone to see them yet if someone sees them they are not the true answers. We're stuck! The truth is only available to the gods, not us.
This place should be re-named the Megalithic Mystery Speculation Forum to correctly reflect the true qualifications of all of the contributors, on both sides. To be fair to both you and science though Vlad, certainty plays no part in what is said in your cases. The name change is only needed with regard to those who believe they can see with the eyes of the gods. 
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vlad
Joined:
13-05-2006
Messages: 1287
from Stockholm
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| New Message Posted!2009-03-14 12:11
Also beware those, who are saying - "Let`s go together and check a peculiar place right around the corner", chyknel!? How two widely disparate kinds of people - explorers and anti-explorers, could ever find a common language!? Then, there`s a technique of pretending to explore...
[ This message was edited by: vlad on 2009-03-14 12:19 ]
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