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mikecroley
Joined:
27-10-2006
Messages: 1655
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|  New Message Posted!2009-05-21 21:53
Quote:
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On 2009-05-21 19:12, Ben wrote:
Personally i don't subscribe to postmodernist new agey ideas........
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Me neither.
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Ben
Joined:
05-11-2008
Messages: 62
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| New Message Posted!2009-05-21 19:12
Quote:
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I see, you're one of those new age folk who believe they live in a 3D reality! You're a holographic projection from within matey. Your reality exists in a tiny little mirror at the back of your head, and that's an illusion too.
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well i have never been called 'new age' before, however it really depends on what you mean by dimension matey, spatially we seem to only experience 3 (4 if your working in spacetime) but there may be more. However there are many many more other kinds of 'spaces' than just the spatial ones which is why i say it depends on what you mean by dimension.
Personally i don't subscribe to postmodernist new agey ideas that nothing is real and its all an illusion.. sorry
[ This message was edited by: Ben on 2009-05-21 19:13 ]
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mikecroley
Joined:
27-10-2006
Messages: 1655
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2009-05-21 17:11
Quote:
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On 2009-05-20 22:31, Ben wrote:
your thinking 2D..............
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I see, you're one of those new age folk who believe they live in a 3D reality! You're a holographic projection from within matey. Your reality exists in a tiny little mirror at the back of your head, and that's an illusion too.
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Ben
Joined:
05-11-2008
Messages: 62
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2009-05-20 22:31
your thinking 2D, yes the layers are hexagonal but the crystalline structure is not
It's hard to explain this without the aid of pictures so hopefully this will help you see the difference.
http://departments.kings.edu/chemlab/animation/clospack.html
also some good images here
face centred cubic
http://www.rkm.com.au/METALS/cubic-close-packing.html
hexagonal
http://www.rkm.com.au/METALS/hexagonal-close-packing.html
gold
http://www.rkm.com.au/METALS/gold.html
[ This message was edited by: Ben on 2009-05-20 22:40 ]
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cropredy
Joined:
01-01-2006
Messages: 5539
from Oxon
 ON-Line
| New Message Posted!2009-05-20 20:54
Ben,
See what you make of this?
http://reu-mse.mme.wsu.edu/past/2004/WigginsBryan2004.pdf
kevin
[ This message was edited by: cropredy on 2009-05-20 20:56 ]
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Ben
Joined:
05-11-2008
Messages: 62
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2009-05-20 15:54
Quote:
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On 2009-05-20 10:18, cropredy wrote:
Vlad,
Welcome back.
This story just repeats and repeats, always nines, always gold.
jericho was nine acres, with bee hive shaped houses?
Nine compressing into one, replenishing , re-birth.
Gold under an electron microscope is honeycombed.
Every other dimension will be here and now, just on alternate faces of the honeycomb, each point in that honeycomb will have polarity and equator, turn that locally, and another dimension will be.
Down this wabbit hole anyway.
http://www.theoi.com/Gigante/GiganteTityos.html
kevin
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actually gold has a face centred cubic lattice structure rather that a hexagonal one..
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vlad
Joined:
13-05-2006
Messages: 1291
from Stockholm
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2009-05-20 11:13
Hi, Kevin. Now you are taking the old stuff into consideration; what a surprise. Well; Tityos spread out on nine acres in Hades, with his liver being picked out by two predatory birds, is a symbolic picture of many sides. First of all, wherefrom he came!?
Some look for Elarion - the cave-home of his mother, in the island of Euboia (Evvia) while others say that "Euboia" - the "home of good oxen" once could have been meant also as the name of the plains between Panopeus and river Kephisos. From Google-Earth maps, I found two candidates for the TITYOS MOUND, mentioned by Pausanias. From inside of one, Tityos could rise up each spring, while his mother - Elara, stayed behind underground. "Aghia Elousa" of nowadays is probably continuation of those underground names - also that of "Eleusis" with its chthonian initiations.
Some vase-paintings show Tityos rather not like raping Leto but trying to hide in her lap from arrows shot at him by her children - Apollo and Artemis. His precious blood was meant probably first of all to bring back to life the multitude of the local spiritual protectors of new life in two kinds (c.f. two predatory birds) - male and female. In a generalized way, we can say that from the corpse of Giant Tityos, GODS WERE BORN (cf. Egyptian Ogdoad) After a longer study, I`m convinced now that Greek myths could have existed originally as multiformed models for organization of local spiritual "wholenesses" around centers of small Greek homelands.
If we can somehow standardize those models but still use them creatively, a tool for analyzing areas depleted of local lore - like some in England, could have been obtained.
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cropredy
Joined:
01-01-2006
Messages: 5539
from Oxon
ON-Line
| New Message Posted!2009-05-20 10:18
Vlad,
Welcome back.
This story just repeats and repeats, always nines, always gold.
jericho was nine acres, with bee hive shaped houses?
Nine compressing into one, replenishing , re-birth.
Gold under an electron microscope is honeycombed.
Every other dimension will be here and now, just on alternate faces of the honeycomb, each point in that honeycomb will have polarity and equator, turn that locally, and another dimension will be.
Down this wabbit hole anyway.
http://www.theoi.com/Gigante/GiganteTityos.html
kevin
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vlad
Joined:
13-05-2006
Messages: 1291
from Stockholm
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2009-05-20 09:23
Quite seminal remarks, Ken. Right now, I came back home to Stockholm from Greece, where I was studying chthonian sanctuaries. Behind cults dominated by patriarchal Zeus and Apollo - with panhellenic Atena and Artemis as secondary supporters, I was trying to discern local beginnings.
Many Greek Christian sanctuaries are continuing ancient traditions of a specific sacred place. But I suppose the conscious use of them is now limited to some initiated monks of a high rank. One of those positive examples is former Alkmene`s Bridal Chamber (now one of Panaghia`s churches) in Thebes. Meaningfully; it`s located at the (H)Armonia street. I suppose, it`s an old place of HEROIC INITIATIONS. Herakles being born here by Alkmene - local Hera, means him acquiring a level of psychic development, at which one is no longer an offer to accidental passions - those "snakes", which Herakles was able to strangle.
Still another exclusive kind of initiations consisted in a hero being accepted by a local representative of Gaia to become a KING. And here it`s also the influence of a specific sacred place, which was playing a deciding role. If you wanted to look within ancient poets for a lead, you`d not find much material. But still; already Hesiod said Olympian Zeus came from Typhaonion and first landed on Mt. Sphingion (of the Sphinx), before he made love to Alkmene at Thebes. At the foothills, there are rests of ancient sacred center of the whole Boiotian League in ancient Onchestos. This is an "Ogygian" place - connected to the Underground Ocean, into which the "salty waters"are recessing and from where "sweet waters" of the New- Life Flood are coming. Here around we should look for the place of Oidipus solving the riddle of the Sphinx, to become the king of Thebes.
Entrances to the Underworld were once considered to PROVIDE spiritual basis of FECUNDITY for a whole land or a single homestead - for a subsequent vegetation period. At same places, oracles could have been located. Some of them are marked now with chapels of Panaghia - The All- Holy Mother or groups of saintly female helpers. But we can also find here and there some traces of wars waged against the Underworld by some local zealots. At Lebadeia, The Trophonios Oracle begins with an imposing ravine of a natural beauty. Springs forming Herkyne river come out from its slopes. With Pausanias` "Guide to Greece" (IIc. CE), one can still identify the Spring of Memory and the one of Forgetfullness. Some Chapels high up in ravine`s steep slopes mark former nymph sanctuaries.
A shock came, when I identified the Cave of Agamedes, where a pilgrim should stabilize his aura at the Underground tune, before proceeding to the Oracle itself. In last years, someone was probably leading frequently his donkey to a shelf above the place and from there the animal was emptying itself over the floor and walls of the cave. When I later followed the track of Thyiads below the castle of Panopeus, along the sacred stream of Mera towards Delphi, - a next surprise came. Into the stream, someone had thrown residues of a sheep (fur with its head) - to achieve what a goal!? Well; down the stream, there was the area within which Thyiads once used to dance yearly. In Nonakris ("Nine Acres", which could mean symbolically "The Gathering of the All Gods") ), lies the Entrance to the Underworld (alt. name Typhaonion), which sensible people can still easily detect.
[ This message was edited by: vlad on 2009-05-20 09:35 ]
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KenWilliams
Joined:
12-04-2005
Messages: 188
from Dublin
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2009-05-16 23:54
Quote:
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On 2009-03-09 21:53, brigantia wrote:
This for the Great Lord ChykPea once again:
Hmmmm...considering that individuals with this cosmological framework was hugely likely (if not certain) to be integral to those who constructed much of our prehistoric heritage, you insulting such belief systems shows - i) your fundamental lack of true interest in archaeohistorical beliefs; ii) your preference to insulting people way above any preference about the nature of archaic beliefs and cosmologies; iii) you are fundamentally ignorant; and hence iv) you actually are a sad little troll!
All the best Big Boy!
Yours, as always - Paulus
xxx
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Hi Paulus, there's an interesting thought. Do you have to be sympathetic to understand or appreciate something? Or even to have a true interest?
Personally speaking, I think there's deeper resonances going on here than superficial stuff like mythologies, shaministic, animistic or otherwise spiritual or religious beliefs. There could be 5,000,000 shamans, little religions, cults, cosmologies out there (not in practice of course, but in theory), but would studying all of them add any little bit extra to our understanding of the human mind or it's motivations now or just 5,000 years ago?
I think we've seen enough in all of our lifetimes to know that most 'beliefs' are blatant claptrap, whether it is in religion, economics, politics and the arts and humanities. And what's more to the point, we probably know it ourselves but continue with the inner fiction that we 'believe' it. As Dennett points out, most people profess deeply held beliefs and seem firmly convinced of it, but crucially do not act as if they truly believe or that it guides their social interactions (I think one of Dennetts devices was to have 'believers' in an omnisicient god ask themselves if they masturbate, and if it bothers them that god is standing watching them). They do act in conformance to the social or cultural norms and codes of their peers but the underlying rationale is rarely from the divine or spiritual.
There is then another way of looking at it, maybe the specific content/beliefs are largely irrelevant. Perhaps they are interesting in and of themselves and are pleasing to recite and experience, just as appreciating a powerful piece of music doesn't require a belief in a 'sound god'. Many are at least formulaic and unimaginative anyway but some play on all the right psychological hot buttons. And possibly they didn't truly believe any of it really deep down anyway, like most of us today. It's usually not the content of a certain belief that determines whether people live or die for it, but how your stance clashes with his/her stance. Same old story then and now.
I dont think it's insulting to say most beliefs are rubbish, it's simply a musing on the general tendency of our evolved mind to find agency in everything, a top-down driven purpose in all our affairs and a sense of kinship with those who share the same convictions when the implausibility or not of the content is really beside the point and rarely reflected on.
For myself, I don't feel I have to respect or seek out the beliefs or convictions of the ancients anymore than those of the people around me to find sympathy for their motivations in the common bedrock of humanity.
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